Which Version of Legalization Do You Prefer? Please Read Propositions And Then Vote!

The reason Cannabis legislation failed in California is because of a group of people.

They are predominantly:

Over 40 years old
Republican
Conservative
Unemployed
Voted For McCain/Palin
And strongly disapprove of Obama

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2010/results/polls/#CAI01p1

So that's all that needs to change. The Stick-up-their ass, over 40, conservative republicans that refuse to vote (or feel) outside of their party lines need to get the fuck out of California.

Stupid Puritan nation.

DelSlow said:

I think people voted down prop 19 because of the monopolies that would have been created, the new laws created (jail time for older kids smoking with younger kids), and the insanely low amount of 1 ounce. I am a horrible grower, but give me a 5x5 and I will def. pull more than 1 ounce.

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No voters don't care if it's reasonable or not they don't want legal drug sales in their communities. It is that simple.

The only thing that might pass is a people only.

So as I understand it this is a survey of all people everywhere on what they want.

It has no direct connect to California voters and what they will actually vote for. Also we are ignoring that California has voted against cannabis Commerce twice.

Well then I don't need to bother any more because it's not actually about California in 2012.

cool.. Later.

Snow Crash said:

The reason Cannabis legislation failed in California is because of a group of people.

They are predominantly:

Over 40 years old
Republican
Conservative
Unemployed
Voted For McCain/Palin
And strongly disapprove of Obama

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2010/results/polls/#CAI01p1

So that's all that needs to change. The Stick-up-their ass, over 40, conservative republicans that refuse to vote (or feel) outside of their party lines need to get the fuck out of California.

Stupid Puritan nation.

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You don't think that legal drug dealing in church going towns was another reason do you?
LOL

We are so dumb.

Really? Drug dealing?

Isn't the Starbucks dealing caffeine?
Isn't the liqueur store dealing alcohol?
Isn't the vitamin store dealing B12?

It is this conceptualization of Cannabis as a "drug" that is semantically erroneous. It is no larger or greater evil than what is available to society today. This is a plant that has been in use around the world for all but the most recent 100 of at least 5000 years or longer. The period of prohibition this plant has experienced is hardly 1/50th of the time humankind has had access to it. Rather than forcing people to back alley dealers who might be out of pot "but check out this crack" legalization reduces the "gateway drug" aspect of Marijuana. Taxing the sale of cannabis allows the community to benefit at least financially. Through these gains they can educate future generations about the truth of individual choice and responsibility, and what cannabis is, in much the same way tobacco taxes pay for anti-tobacco messages.

Like how the sails of the Columbus's ships were made from hemp. That the first pair of Levi jeans was cut from a Canvas (cannabis, canvas, cannabis, canvas, say it aloud) tent made of hemp. That the first printed word around today was put on hemp paper in China. That the first bible was printed on hemp paper. And that in all likelihood Cannabis oil and resins were ingredients used for many things required in religious ceremonies, including Christ's anointment an incense.

Just like anything else we put in our bodies, from Acetaminophen to Tums, all compounds our bodies do not produce or break down into energy are essentially drugs. The label doesn't change what it is.

Ernst, I know you're on a hardcore troll run right now and I don't mean to get in your way. By all means, please, continue.

All this talk about drugs...I think I'm gonna go smoke till I sleep

Snow Crash said:

Really? Drug dealing?

Isn't the Starbucks dealing caffeine?
Isn't the liqueur store dealing alcohol?
Isn't the vitamin store dealing B12?

It is this conceptualization of Cannabis as a "drug" that is semantically erroneous. It is no larger or greater evil than what is available to society today. This is a plant that has been in use around the world for all but the most recent 100 of at least 5000 years or longer. The period of prohibition this plant has experienced is hardly 1/50th of the time humankind has had access to it. Rather than forcing people to back alley dealers who might be out of pot "but check out this crack" legalization reduces the "gateway drug" aspect of Marijuana. Taxing the sale of cannabis allows the community to benefit at least financially. Through these gains they can educate future generations about the truth of individual choice and responsibility, and what cannabis is, in much the same way tobacco taxes pay for anti-tobacco messages.

Like how the sails of the Columbus's ships were made from hemp. That the first pair of Levi jeans was cut from a Canvas (cannabis, canvas, cannabis, canvas, say it aloud) tent made of hemp. That the first printed word around today was put on hemp paper in China. That the first bible was printed on hemp paper. And that in all likelihood Cannabis oil and resins were ingredients used for many things required in religious ceremonies, including Christ's anointment an incense.

Just like anything else we put in our bodies, from Acetaminophen to Tums, all compounds our bodies do not produce or break down into energy are essentially drugs. The label doesn't change what it is.

Ernst, I know you're on a hardcore troll run right now and I don't mean to get in your way. By all means, please, continue.

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I am on a hard core stop the stupid greedy people before 2012 run fool.

The Stupid people have had us vote for cannabis commerce twice and we lost. Fact! We voted for a people only once and it passed Fact.
Now I take it you will tell me you are not in California.

So are you one of the Stupid greedy people? That think a third Cannabis Commerce Initiative is gonna fly?

Look I take it you grow and sell cannabis. You like high prices and the fact most will buy cannabis rather than grow it because 1. it's easier and 2 if busted possession is a lower crime than growing.

So let me ask you for everyone here. If we vote down another legalization commerce initiative in 2012 won't that be good for you?
So all you growers.. You digital burqa cannabis growing people. You want laws that make your world a better place but if it fails that is okay too isn't it because your Green is Money.

To Hell with profits Legalize it for the people.

If you guys are like the prop 19ers I knew in 2010 then you will fade away leaving us illegal another two years while you black market people still make bank.

To hell with Black Market people first!
To hell with selling us out each year!

So am I a troll? Hardly.. I am out of the cannabis closet and real so don't be so obviously stupid fool.

Get a life is what I was told but I have one. I am a real person fighting for Cannabis freedom for all.

You are a Cannabis digital burqa wearing black market troll.

And I am not making anything us am I?

Yall's facts and promoting the Business will lead us to cannabis freedom ARE LIES and I can show you the voting results to prove it ( in California )

Friends do not follow those who sell you half freedom for cannabis.
support rights to Proper cannabis horticulture for us all. Accept no 10x10 nor let the cannabis industry decide what is fair for you to have.
It is no one's business if you have 10 pounds or 1000 pounds as long as you are not selling.
Beware of slick snakes telling you that limits are freedom. That less is more!

Dare to want true Cannabis freedom and let the Money Changers skip a cycle because my friends.. They are happy to keep you illegal since you make them money.

So Troll. Not even close. Invested in California? Yep I am a native Californian.

Let me ask you all this.

If you can have a garden and produce what you will for private non-commercial use then why is that bad except that it messes up the Black Market?

Yall Black Market fools lost us the last vote and the first Prop 19.

You will not find us willing to vote for you in 2012 I promise!

So do you even know what it is like in a Red County?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_counties_and_blue_counties

Wikipedia has a map. Look closely at where people vote to the Right ( anti-cannabis commerce )

Sure there are blue areas where there are lots of people but to legalize you have to include the whole State.

You Cannabis Commerce people first cannot save us!
You can't do a damn thing for Cannabis freedom you can only fight for Cannabis profits.

Hence you Black Market people are the Devil.

Snow Crash said:

The reason Cannabis legislation failed in California is because of a group of people.

They are predominantly:

Over 40 years old
Republican
Conservative
Unemployed
Voted For McCain/Palin
And strongly disapprove of Obama

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2010/results/polls/#CAI01p1

So that's all that needs to change. The Stick-up-their ass, over 40, conservative republicans that refuse to vote (or feel) outside of their party lines need to get the fuck out of California.

Stupid Puritan nation.

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Those people aren't going to change their mind on their own. What we need to pass legalization is an energized and united cannabis community to help them change their minds. You don't get that with a law that alienates people.

Again I ask you why will No Voters of 2010 vote yes in 2012?

I will now judge you on that.

It's easy to get children excited about a trip to the candy store.

Or maybe a trip to Big Rock Candy Mountain.
[video=youtube;JqowmHgxVJQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqowmHgxVJQ[/video]

Ernst said:

Again I ask you why will No Voters of 2010 vote yes in 2012?

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As I've said, this law gives them new incentives plus it's a law that virtually everyone in the cannabis community can agree on, no one seriously objects to it (except you who obviously has his own agenda). We can't start convincing non-smokers until we are all on the same page.

What you're proposing is divisive. What I'm proposing is not. How do you expect to pass legalization that the cannabis community does not agree on?

Dan Kone said:

As I've said, this law gives them new incentives plus it's a law that virtually everyone in the cannabis community can agree on, no one seriously objects to it (except you who obviously has his own agenda). We can't start convincing non-smokers until we are all on the same page.

What you're proposing is divisive. What I'm proposing is not. How do you expect to pass legalization that the cannabis community does not agree on?

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You are blowing smoke up my ass..

The Voters include everyone.

Try again. Why will the No Voters of 2010 vote yes in 2012?

The proposition lost by 566,000 votes.

It's a lot of No's to turn to Yes. I definitely can get behind that.

I think many of the no's came from the elderly. So, one consideration is that if there are significantly fewer old people in the State who will vote against the proposition, and more and more continuing support from the new generation of people who could not vote in the previous election, then it very well could be you don't need to change anyone's vote.

You simply need to wait for the generation of Elderly, retired, adults who were subject to the last 50 years of anti-cannabis propaganda to die out. As the number of brainwashed voters are fewer and fewer, and the number of "information age" voters increases then the power will shift the other way.

At this point I feel it is little more than educate and wait. Not much can be done for the "old-dogs" when it comes to relearning them on the truth about hemp and cannabis. The only option there is, IMO, is to reach out to the new voters, and those who didn't vote (young and busy) and get them to come out in a better show of support and solidarity for the repeal of outrageous legislation which goes against the very basis of nature. Seeds become plants.

To outlaw the growth of a plant is to say that we are in control of nature. I think it would be easy to show this is simply not the case and get the rationally minded generations to push through the change we all desire. I give it 10 years. If it doesn't happen in 10 years it isn't going to happen.

Let Dan Kone answer.

Ernst said:

Let Dan Kone answer.

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Don't talk to me like I'm your inbred child.

I'm not stopping him.

Ernst said:

You are blowing smoke up my ass..

The Voters include everyone.

Try again. Why will the No Voters of 2010 vote yes in 2012?

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Do what? Man, it is getting harder and harder to follow your arguments.

Snow Crash said:

Don't talk to me like I'm your inbred child.

I'm not stopping him.

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You are still trying to run interference besides I replied to you in email.

Nice try but I'm not fooled.

Boonierat said:

Do what? Man, it is getting harder and harder to follow your arguments.

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Are you serious>? read about 4 or 5 posts back if you can.

Sorry for you limited attention span. I feel for you.

Ernst said:

Again I ask you why will No Voters of 2010 vote yes in 2012?

I will now judge you on that.

It's easy to get children excited about a trip to the candy store.

Or maybe a trip to Big Rock Candy Mountain.
[video=youtube;JqowmHgxVJQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqowmHgxVJQ[/video]

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Because 8 pounds is a lot more than 1 ounce. Because 10x10 is more than 5x5. Limits are limits Ernst. You can grow as much weed as you want, no one is stopping you. Just don't be a dumbass and tell everyone you have thousands plants. But realize the world is not a perfect place. While you complain about not being able to have 1000 lbs (WTF) people all over the world are starving. People are being subjected to genocide. People don't even have access to basic medicines. All the while, you, myself, and everyone on this forum have everything we could ever need to survive, and then some. Think about these people vs your "horticultural rights".

DelSlow said:

Because 8 pounds is a lot more than 1 ounce. Because 10x10 is more than 5x5. Limits are limits Ernst. You can grow as much weed as you want, no one is stopping you. Just don't be a dumbass and tell everyone you have thousands plants. But realize the world is not a perfect place. While you complain about not being able to have 1000 lbs (WTF) people all over the world are starving. People are being subjected to genocide. People don't even have access to basic medicines. All the while, you, myself, and everyone on this forum have everything we could ever need to survive, and then some. Think about these people vs your "horticultural rights".

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I am thinking about everyone with Horticulture. With full horticulture rights we all get freedom.
We will not be free until we have rights to cannabis firmly grounded in the law.

It isn't My horticulture so get off that horse. It's the rights of Man I am championing.
We should never make laws against the reasonable use of the plants of this world.
To Legalize means accepting that people garden and breed and that utilization of space is relative to activity.

There is a difference between Commercial and non-commercial so the argument is keep Limits on commerce and leave the people alone.
Ironic isn't it that almost never will the Cannabis people of all web sites want cannabis truly legal.

And that "People in the world are suffering so shut up" is absolute bull shit.
Always fight for more freedom.

Dare to want more not less.

Are you a California Voter by chance? Live in a Red county? If so which one?

So Dan Kone just hides when asked how to get No voters to vote yes.

What a limp noodle..

Ernst said:

So Dan Kone just hides when asked how to get No voters to vote yes.

What a limp noodle..

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No, I answered you and you choose to ignore it. I can't force you to be reasonable.

You're being belligerent Ernest.

Do you really believe you're going to get no voters to vote yes by legalizing unlimited scale commercial grow houses in residential neighborhoods and legalize black market dealing out of people's houses? That's insane.

The way to get no voters to vote yes is by having a unified cannabis community out convincing them to vote yes, giving non-smokers more tangible incentives, respecting them, and having money behind the campaign to counter negative TV ads.

You foolishly choose to ignore all that and instead insist that what non-smokers really want is the unlimited and unregulated commercial cannabis in residential neighborhoods so their kids have better access to cannabis. I'm not sure how you came up with that conclusion or why you decided that was an acceptable realistic solution, but it's not.

I know what you're really about Ernest. You've already made it clear that you don't care what the people want by your comments in this thread. You want one thing. You want to be able to grow, breed, and deal out of your house. That much is obvious due to how you insist on a very specific form of legalization that many object to. And you know what? It's ok for you to want those things. But the State of California doesn't need to pass an "Ernest can deal out of his house law" for that to happen. You should work on a local law, if that doesn't work then move to another part of Cali where those things are more acceptable.

But please, enough of this non-sense. If you really cared about legalization you would be listening to what the people want rather than just insulting them and repeating false rhetoric over and over again. It's very transparent.