Who is it that keeps it illegal?

L

LEAPSpeaker

Active Member
Who keeps it illegal? Everyone who makes money from marijuana being illegal.

That includes not only law enforcement, but almost every other government from local law enforcement to the health department, to almost every federal agency. Many you would never think of, like the Forest Service, BLM, and housing agencies, who evict people with a drug conviction. Then there's the drug treatment, and probation people, and don't even get me started about the alcohol, tobacco and pharmaceutical industries fight to keep marijuana illegal. Sad to say a few reform groups are included, but a small minority.

The drug war in general is a money making machine for government agencies. If someone is caught with marijuana, they not only get arrested, their vehicle is seized, and most likely sold at auction, if you don't owe the bank too much. A creative agency I know of in Montana, even had a way around that.

They would send a form to the lien holder, telling them illegal drugs were found in the vehicle, and the lien holder had to sign a release form. The form relieved the law enforcement of any liability, should a future owner be injured by drugs, or drug residue not located by the agency.

I'm sure the banks legal department painted a picture of some kid putting their hand between the seats, and sticking their fingers in PCP then putting them in their mouth. Needless to say, even if it was a new Porsche, the bank wouldn't take the risk, and gave the car to the agency.

So to answer your question, far too many people make big money by keeping marijuana illegal.
 
MrFishy

MrFishy

Well-Known Member
Exactly. Think tobacco. If anything ever should be outlawed, it's this billion person killer. I've been addicted my whole life, thru my parents smoking. I clearly recall awakening every morning of my young life to that stench. Killed Dad. Killed Ma. Most likely gonna kill me, and Ma2 . . . yet there's just too much government money in it to consider doing the right thing.
 
cleatis

cleatis

Well-Known Member
Oh, I understand full well what you guys are saying, I have written pages upon pages of pretty much the same thing.

I posted because there were some people here that said they wanted to know who the corporate contributors were so that they could avoid goods from that company.
 
N

nick12345

Active Member
MLB only gives because they know they look bad whenever a player is exposed for steroid use and for some reason they're on th list twice
 
vespa17

vespa17

Well-Known Member
LEAPSpeaker said:
Who keeps it illegal? Everyone who makes money from marijuana being illegal.

That includes not only law enforcement, but almost every other government from local law enforcement to the health department, to almost every federal agency. Many you would never think of, like the Forest Service, BLM, and housing agencies, who evict people with a drug conviction. Then there's the drug treatment, and probation people, and don't even get me started about the alcohol, tobacco and pharmaceutical industries fight to keep marijuana illegal. Sad to say a few reform groups are included, but a small minority.

The drug war in general is a money making machine for government agencies. If someone is caught with marijuana, they not only get arrested, their vehicle is seized, and most likely sold at auction, if you don't owe the bank too much. A creative agency I know of in Montana, even had a way around that.

They would send a form to the lien holder, telling them illegal drugs were found in the vehicle, and the lien holder had to sign a release form. The form relieved the law enforcement of any liability, should a future owner be injured by drugs, or drug residue not located by the agency.

I'm sure the banks legal department painted a picture of some kid putting their hand between the seats, and sticking their fingers in PCP then putting them in their mouth. Needless to say, even if it was a new Porsche, the bank wouldn't take the risk, and gave the car to the agency.

So to answer your question, far too many people make big money by keeping marijuana illegal.
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Well said, Leap. I can tell you are passionate about the subject -- sh*t you've been a member since December 2006 and this was your first post!
 
L

LEAPSpeaker

Active Member
Yes this was my first post. I became very disillusioned, and left LEAP about the time I joined RollItUp. I'm just getting back into voicing my opinions again.

I worked in law enforcement for 15 years, 12 years as a narcotics investigator. Back in the 70's and even into the 80's, we believed in what we were doing After all, the government told us this was a war, but things just didn't add up.

The Sheriff would tell us that getting "the big guy" was so very important, but every time our undercover operations lead us to the "the big guy", we were told that he was in another state, so we wouldn't get any credit with the voters.

More and more we were arresting users, the guy next door who's king of his recliner, not a drug king pin.

When I started as a deputy we were peace officers, our job was to be a problem solver. Any day I went home without arresting someone, I had done my job. I solved the problem without arresting anyone, without getting the government involved in peoples lives, and without costing the citizen a lot of money.

Some where we changed from Peace Officers, to Law Enforcement officers. Our job changed from solving problems and helping people, to simply enforcing laws without discretion.

I was a resident deputy in a small town of 500 people on the edge of Yellowstone, it wasn't boring because 2,000,000 a year went threw town each year. I knew most of the locals, and especially the kids, they can be a cops friend, or make your life miserable.

I had one kid who tore up town every time my patrol car was parked at the house. Needless to say I would get calls, and in a small town people don't call 911, they just call you at home. When he saw my patrol car gone, he would cool his jets.

One day I saw him roll threw a stop sign, and wrote him a ticket. His dad called and ask my to come over the next day. He knew I didn't write tickets unless it was for something serious, and ask why I wroth his kid the ticket.

I explained his kid was tearing up the town every time I was home. Dad and the kid went to another room and had rather a loud discussion. When they came back, dad ask if there was anything I could do, he said the kid had some tickets, and would have his license suspended over the ticket I wrote.

To a teenager living in a town of 500 people, being able to take your girl to a movie 50 miles away in a real town, is a big deal. So I told dad if the kid would stop tearing up town, and not get any more tickets, I would dismiss the ticket so he could keep his license. Everyone agreed, and the kid kept his word. I can't think of a better solution to this problem.

Thats the difference between a Peace Officer, and a Law Enforcement officer. It's too bad Peace officers are a dying breed.

Jay
 
VictorVIcious

VictorVIcious

Well-Known Member
LEAPSpeaker said:
Who keeps it illegal? Everyone who makes money from marijuana being illegal.
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Welcome to the forum. What?
That includes not only law enforcement, but almost every other government from local law enforcement to the health department, to almost every federal agency.
This is almost correct. The agencies you mention don't make money off marijuana prohibition, they spend money and keep thier jobs, the do not 'make money' from it.

Many you would never think of, like the Forest Service, BLM, and housing agencies, who evict people with a drug conviction.
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So yo believe that evicting people produces income, please.

Then there's the drug treatment, and probation people, and don't even get me started about the alcohol, tobacco and pharmaceutical industries fight to keep marijuana illegal.
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Well, finally some folks that do make money because they keep Marijuana illegal.

Sad to say a few reform groups are included, but a small minority.
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OK. Name them?

The drug war in general is a money making machine for government agencies.
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No, it is not, its like a boat, its a hole in the water we throw money into and your statements show a lack of understanding of the process.

If someone is caught with marijuana, they not only get arrested, their vehicle is seized, and most likely sold at auction, if you don't owe the bank too much. A creative agency I know of in Montana, even had a way around that.

They would send a form to the lien holder, telling them illegal drugs were found in the vehicle, and the lien holder had to sign a release form. The form relieved the law enforcement of any liability, should a future owner be injured by drugs, or drug residue not located by the agency.

I'm sure the banks legal department painted a picture of some kid putting their hand between the seats, and sticking their fingers in PCP then putting them in their mouth. Needless to say, even if it was a new Porsche, the bank wouldn't take the risk, and gave the car to the agency.
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Asset forfeiture is a way that many places use to make up shortfalls in thier budgets. I remember my shock when Howard Woolridge explained that in a Speech he was giving on behalf of LEAP at Michigan State University. He told the story of a new big city police chief and the budget process he went through. He was told he would have to make up the 8% budget shortage thru forfeitures. The problem with that is that by the time we spend the money necessary to prosecute the case, the total ends up in the hole, the taxpayers end up paying more, it seems they left the slice for the judges out of the pie.

So to answer your question, far too many people make big money by keeping marijuana illegal.
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The only people that make 'big money' by keeping some drugs illegal are the ones that participate in the distribution process. There are also some businesses that do more business now then they would if Marijuana were legal, you have mentioned a few of those.
The real reason Marijuna remains illegal is because there is a lack of understanding about Marijuana. Our job is to educate them, and saying that some of these folks make money off Marijuana staying illegal isn't helping.
What we need to do is show why that logic is wrong, that in fact, we spend more money enforcing arbitrary 'illegal drug' prohibition than the forfieture of all of your property (I could care less about a car) will yield, and that changing the classification for those drugs will save us money, produce income if it is legalized and taxed similar to liquor and nicotine, reduce Law Enforcement Costs by small amounts, when you add the court costs mulitply that number by 5 times as much if the Massachusettes research is accurate, and then we can talk about the saving from the reduction of prison populations and those savings.

If you are serious, if you really want to know why Marijuana remains illegal, I suggest you print out the 2008 Marijuana Sourcebook . It has a subtitle, Marijuana: The Greatest Cause Of Illegal Drug Abuse.

It's publisher? No suprise, the Office of National Drug Control Policy (ONDCP) The information it contains tells you why MJ remains 'illegal'. And its all a lie. We have history from 1914 to date, Marijuana is not the cause of other illegal drug abuse, the laws and the way they are administered is the cause of our biggest and most deadly 'drug problem', the use and abuse of 'legal drugs', available shipped to your house, semi-legally, licit and illicit. The really funny page is the one that shows how much is spent on the different 'illicit drugs'. 1/6 of that amount goes for MJ, over 1/2 of the total is spent on cocaine. Make money off what?? VV
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A

antipythium

Well-Known Member
Victor do you live at home? Because you don't sound like you're out in the real world. The entire construction around keeping pot illegal is based on making money.
More arrests mean more fines. More beds for jails mean more employees. When someone's arrested every 8 seconds for marijuana with a fine to be paid, a lot of government employees are kept busy.

Government employees buy uniforms; boots; specialty belts, vests, flashlights, guns, ammo, training; they might be required to be on staff because of the pot but it makes for students in the local community and other colleges; the "specialty classes" they take; there are cars to be bought, lights, carpet, water bills, painting to be done on the larger gov'mt infrastructure.
Then there's the prison industry itself; not the jail business, the prison industry.

On top of that there are the ad campaigns to be paid for, the tv time, the printed words, the websites to be managed, the ads TO the people who buy all that specialty equipment above. There are people who are kept on staffs not just for the original from the box equipment the various manufacturers make, but the specialty equipment: development of police rounds, very specific tools like infrared cameras for helicopters.

There are airplanes to be piloted, kept up mechanically, as well as all those vans, trucks, helicopters, boats.

There is so much money in keeping pot illegal you have no earthly idea.

WE HAVEN'T EVEN TOUCHED YET:

on all the general family counselors, the drug abuse counselors, the child protection jobs in keeping kids away from their families.

The additional LAWYERS, JUDGES, ASSISTANTS and ALL THE PEOPLE THAT KEEP AN ENTIRE ARM OF A JUDICIAL BRANCH GOING: the JANITORS for MORE OFFICES, the WHOLE PANOPLY of an ENORMOUS and unneeded sector of the ENTIRE JUDICIARY.

The MUCH larger UPPER ECHELON of management kept fat, stupid and well heeled from all the above staffers of various places, not in the judiciary, and in it: who are a complete economy unto themselves.

The insurance kept for all those employees; their cars, boats, planes, the buildings... that alone is more than many, many combined, third-world nations' entire economies.

THE FORFEITURES which rack up HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of dollars in a given decade. Not just chump change.

THE POLITICAL LEVERAGE for the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT in BULLYING OTHER COUNTRIES on trade issues; social issues; tourism issues, etc.

You need to re think what you're saying because there is H.U.G.E. amount of money "made" in the keeping of all that infrastructure intact, and I didn't even list it all.
There's the increased revenue to fast food, paper products, computers, software, accountants who oversee, on.. and on.. and on.

It's huge.
 
VictorVIcious

VictorVIcious

Well-Known Member
antipythium said:
Victor do you live at home? Because you don't sound like you're out in the real world. The entire construction around keeping pot illegal is based on making money.
More arrests mean more fines. More beds for jails mean more employees. When someone's arrested every 8 seconds for marijuana with a fine to be paid, a lot of government employees are kept busy.
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Look sonny boy, I have been supporting my self, wife and kids for longer then you are old. You need to start with some facts and misquoting the number of seconds it takes for a marijuana user to get arrested will tear the credibility of any other argument you try to start. If you want to try to have an intelligent conversation, keep your immature personal attacks out of the discussion.
Government employees buy uniforms; boots; specialty belts, vests, flashlights, guns, ammo, training; they might be required to be on staff because of the pot but it makes for students in the local community and other colleges; the "specialty classes" they take; there are cars to be bought, lights, carpet, water bills, painting to be done on the larger gov'mt infrastructure.
Then there's the prison industry itself; not the jail business, the prison industry.

On top of that there are the ad campaigns to be paid for, the tv time, the printed words, the websites to be managed, the ads TO the people who buy all that specialty equipment above. There are people who are kept on staffs not just for the original from the box equipment the various manufacturers make, but the specialty equipment: development of police rounds, very specific tools like infrared cameras for helicopters.

There are airplanes to be piloted, kept up mechanically, as well as all those vans, trucks, helicopters, boats.

There is so much money in keeping pot illegal you have no earthly idea.
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Look, what I said was the 'big money' is made by the distribution chain, and your list of all the ways we spend money for the war on drugs, telling me I have no idea what is spent, son you need to do some research on the arguments I have presented in this and other forums regarding the legalization of drugs. Read my thread News You Can Use and look at the dates. Do you have a copy of The Marijuana Sourcebook for 2008 that you can use to educate me, have you read it, do you know what it says. DO you know that The NIDA just had a story published showing what I have been saying for years now, Marijuana is not the problem, prescription drugs are the problem. Do you know the percentages for the prison population, both federal and state, that is there for drug charges, not counting local and county lockups.
Do you understand that the war on drugs funds the taliban, that the war on drugs in fact creates the terrorist, according to current LEAP speaker Howard Woolridge. Did you gather signatures to put some form of marijuana reform law on a ballot somewhere.
I did not say no one profits from the war on drugs, I said the things he was pointing out are not ways money is made, thats how it gets spent.
WE HAVEN'T EVEN TOUCHED YET:

on all the general family counselors, the drug abuse counselors, the child protection jobs in keeping kids away from their families.

The additional LAWYERS, JUDGES, ASSISTANTS and ALL THE PEOPLE THAT KEEP AN ENTIRE ARM OF A JUDICIAL BRANCH GOING: the JANITORS for MORE OFFICES, the WHOLE PANOPLY of an ENORMOUS and unneeded sector of the ENTIRE JUDICIARY.

The MUCH larger UPPER ECHELON of management kept fat, stupid and well heeled from all the above staffers of various places, not in the judiciary, and in it: who are a complete economy unto themselves.

The insurance kept for all those employees; their cars, boats, planes, the buildings... that alone is more than many, many combined, third-world nations' entire economies.

THE FORFEITURES which rack up HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of dollars in a given decade. Not just chump change.

THE POLITICAL LEVERAGE for the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT in BULLYING OTHER COUNTRIES on trade issues; social issues; tourism issues, etc.

You need to re think what you're saying because there is H.U.G.E. amount of money "made" in the keeping of all that infrastructure intact, and I didn't even list it all.
There's the increased revenue to fast food, paper products, computers, software, accountants who oversee, on.. and on.. and on.

It's huge.
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If you can't dazzle them with brilliance baffle them with bullshit. Look son, another list of ways that we spend money fighting drugs and trying to explain how the economic sectors are connected make make sense in your high school classes, they don't fit here in this case. To begin with this was just about Marijuana. The way our government makes money on drugs does not include Marijuana, it starts with cocaine, you remember Ollie North and the Iran Contra affair don't you. Marijauna according to the ONDCP is less than an $11billion dollar market, almost matched by heroin, and cocaine kicks everyones ass, if you don't take the 'legal prescription drugs' into account. Do you know the drug companies will spend $5,000,000,000.00 on advertising this year in the US. Did you read the article in readers digest that tells what a mess the Food and Drug Administration is.
Now look, you can go back and read what I said to start with and add any thing you want to the conversation, I would suggest you try some logic and intelligence, everyone in the godamforum knows I am an old man with a bad back, wtf is this live at home bullshit. That doesn't mean I don't like you.......yet. VV:fire:
 
NewGrowth

NewGrowth

Well-Known Member
To start we should send these people letters:
Jason Giambi
Betty Wold Johnson
Timothy J. Brosnan
David R. Clare
Paul Giancola
Marc Goldstein
Sydney K. Hunsdale
Ellen and Richard Muglia
John G. Partilla
George Tyrrell
Diane M. Whitty
 
cleatis

cleatis

Well-Known Member
I kind of think that you both can be right. The government does spend a lot of money to keep it illegal, no here disputes that. However as I mentioned in the opening, there are a lot of people that pay off a politician through donations etc. I'm sure no one will dispute that.

The amount the government spends to keep it illegal may be more than it makes, but we're talking the government here; it isn't their money, so they will throw massive amounts of it around. But by them throwing taxpayer dollars around, it puts cash in their pocket. So indeed the amount the government makes in forfeiture, fines and so on may be less than it spends, but in the end it still goes in the man's pocket and taxpayers get to foot the bill.

But for pharmaceutical, alcohol, tobacco and petrol companies, they can "donate" a few hundred grand (which is pocket change to anyone here) and keep competition under lock and key. Because all of these are things that we are dependant on them to make. Sure, you can grow your own tobacco, but really, who does. Some people make their own beer and even hard A but they're still a minority. Anyone can grow a plant, and a lot of us have/do. Pills are something that pill companies obviously don't want competition with. and petrol companies, well, i'm not even opening that can of worms. So here are all these companies that are pretty much buying off a politician and making several times the return.

As we can see, it obviously isn't in just one place. But damn guys, you're making potheads look violent - like they teach in dare.... (I mean that in good humor btw).
 
puffdamagikdragon

puffdamagikdragon

Well-Known Member
I second that Amen.

Let me get this right, Victor tells Anti to not resort to personal attacks, then that is all he does in his post? Is attack him? What hypocrisy.:finger:
 
B

brak

Active Member
Simply. The people under a tobacco brand who wake each and every morning and reach for a cigarette and light it up. No cares of how it got to them. No cares on the life it takes off the young and social harm it causes.
 
Da Kine 420

Da Kine 420

Well-Known Member
we should give jason "the hotel" giambi alone. hasn't he suffered enough. he could have bee his genration lyle alzado. lmao.

he "had" to give some money from his involvement in mlb and all the steroid business. funny shit, no NFL o nba or pga, or lpga. any other sports on there.

fuck the pharmacutical companies, they make the big bucks. i have a problem with our medical system.

law enforcement? they love their high speed chases.

one of my drunk friends died in an accident. they were running for the cops. another in the car was paralyzed waist down. the driver went to jail for a few years.

this was an alcohol related event. still, alcohol is legal and cigs are legal(killed gramps).

wtf?
 
VictorVIcious

VictorVIcious

Well-Known Member
puffdamagikdragon said:
I second that Amen.

Let me get this right, Victor tells Anti to not resort to personal attacks, then that is all he does in his post? Is attack him? What hypocrisy.:finger:
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That is an interesting viewpoint. I thought I attacked the logic of what he said, maybe 'sonny boy' was a little harsh, it was also right? VV
 
VictorVIcious

VictorVIcious

Well-Known Member
Ghost420 said:
the Christan right is where all of (the worlds) our problems stem from
think about it
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You are correct that a lot of opposition comes from the Christian Right, a little research will show support there also. Many of them believe in the constitution, less government involvement, check out who defended the young man in his Bong Hits For Jesus case.
Most of the reason Marijuana isn't legal is the 'Fear Factor'. The reason we are talking about gay marriage is because they came out of the closet. The reason we are just now fighting for madical marijuana, not full legalization is because we didn't, we can't have leo looking at us. we will get arrested.
The least expensive way to legalize marijuana is by State Ballot Initiative, 22 states have some form of this. I figure a commitment of about $5 million should do it for Michigan, they spent about 1/2 that amount to put Medical Marijuana on the ballot, and a lot of that went to the little people, they ones that stood out there on the street asking registered voters to sign the petition. I went to the meeting were our board of canvessors had to vote to put it on the ballot, they were in shock, the politicians still don't believe its there, and the opposition waited until last month to mobilize. By the time 'they' take legalizaion seriously it will already be on the ballot. Michigans economy is going to go in the shitter, we will lose 1/2 or all of the auto industry jobs in the next few years. A well written bill legalizing marijuana would bring our tourist industy back, create jobs and keep our states money in our state. 1/5 of our General FUnd goes to the Corrections Department, we spend more for prisons then we do for Schools.
I have a few ideas too. VV
 
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