Why are Americans so afraid of Socialism?

NLXSK1

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
abandonconflict said:
He just demonstrated that he does not with that dumb comment about voluntary charity.
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From those with blah blah to those in need. Isnt charity socialism? Doesnt it embody the socialist phrase?

Socialism just throws compulsion and force into it... Socialism is involuntary charity...
 
billhilly

billhilly

Member
dontexist21 said:
(Please don't turn this thread into a Republican or Democrat bashing party. I created this for thoughtful meaningful discussion, not mindless stupidity.)

I really want to know why so many people are afraid the idea of Socialism. It seems that every time a politician is even loosely connected to it, its ends up being their political demise. I for one am not calling for a entirely socialist government that only leads to communism, which in the end have shown to fail. But guess what a pure capitalist economy fails to, remember the last time that America had one of those? Around the 1920s, funny how that turned out.

Why is it so bad that the government provide higher education ensures that a large percentage of Americans can either not afford to pay for it, or will be paying interest on a large loan for the rest of their lives, if they can get the loan. For all of those you think that the money is out there and people just have to stop being lazy and look for it. Well I am sorry you people are living in a fantasy world. It is very hard to get a loan these days with the "cullusterfuck" that the economy has been in, and government aid for the most part is a joke. You can barely pay for most colleges with the amount that you are allowed to take out. I think I know this more then most people since I had to take a semester off because I could no afford to pay for college, might even have to take another semester off. Since I cannot get a loan. Its not as if I am stupid I maintained a 3.4 GPA in BioChemistry, its simply I cannot afford to pay for it. How is it beneficial to the American Society to keep people that are smart and have a drive in life at the bottom of the pack simply because they do not have money.

Why is it so bad to provide health care for all American's? Is it really the end of society if all people had a right to be able to go to the doctor if they or one of their loved ones were sick. There should be limits to the amount of times someone could go to the doctor. I would never want to see Hospitals over flowing because people are abusing the system. But that does not mean that people should be dieing of things such as the common flu just because they are to poor to afford the health services. Or dieing because they cannot afford to get a check up on a regular basis, and end of sick because of a worsening condition that could have been prevented? Of course there should be regulations, if you smoke cancer sticks and obese because you don't take take of you body. You should not get the same benefits that everyone else does. Sorry but when you are on the governments bill you better be taking care of yourself better.

I know the argument against this is that people do not want to pay for something that they do use. It is not the governments right to take away their money and use it for something that has no benefit to them. By doing this it will only make people lazy and destroy the fabric of society. Some also might contend that Capitalism is the reason why this country has become so strong, and by adding socialist policies we will only be going against everything that has made this country so great and strong. Policies that have favored business have been the building blocks of our economy.

While I do agree that policies that have strongly favored business have helped bring this country to where it is today. It is also true that one of the main building blocks for the country was the introduction of free education system. Without it our country would not be where it is today. If you do not educate your citizens in this world business you are at a huge disadvantage. You are only creating a perpetual class of people that are going to suck up the programs such as Medicare and Medicaid. Why not create doctors, lawyers, engineers, instead thieves and bums on the street. We already have a socialist type education system, albeit broken, why no fix it and provide more education for those who want it.

Its not a well known fact but because there are people that cannot afford health care, the price of health care is actually being driven up and you are actually paying for it in the end. When someone without health care ends up with a life threatening disease that could have been prevented. Guess who pays the bill to save them, you, and its a ALOT more expensive to keep some one from dieing then to keep someone from getting sick. So why not take that extra money and put it in a system that provides everyone with health care, with regulation. Some might argue that it will kill the insurance industry. Why are people caring about the insurance industry, they sure as hell don't care for you. Innovation means that certain industry will become obsolete over time, it happens that is the way for life.

I am not calling for a completely socialist country but one which takes the ideals from both capitalism and socialism and works them together. Nothing is black and white, but shades of gray.
So I ask you again, why are Americans so afraid of Socialism?

(Please don't turn this thread into a Republican or Democrat bashing party. I created this for thoughtful meaningful discussion, not mindless stupidity.)
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I am not scared of Socialism but I would prefer it stays in other countries where it is already established.

Education - MANY people worked their way through college, some even 2-3 jobs at a time. In my life experience the ones who paid their own way through school are usually doing better in life than those who got it for free.

I have no children but yet I pay for other kids to go to school. I don't complain about it but I don't like it. I could get behind it if I didn't see corruption, politics, over spending and all the other bullshit going on.

When Socialists and anyone else who wants the government to spend money on them why do these folks always refer to it as "Government" doing for them when in reality it is every hard working, tax paying citizens?

I can understand why to some Socialism sounds like a great idea, especially young people. I am only 38 but every generation has it harder. Just my dads generation you could get out of h.s. and go straight to GM and own a nice house, have kids and wife stay home with them, new cars and live happy. Us younger generations have it harder but every generation has its struggle but with hard work and determination you can still get ahead in this country. You can't rely on the government, there is not a government agency that is ran nearly as well as same kind of business's ran in the private sector ( I know this, used to work for the govt.) but Socialists want our govt having more control.

I hope you find a way to go to school, keep your head up and please do not be offended by my response
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
In a free society those that wanted socialism would be free to have it, but only with those that voluntarily opt in.

In an unfree society, socialism would be all inclusive by forced edict and none could escape. Forced socialism springs from the same well that slavery and all other forms of coercive government do. I defy ANYBODY to intelligently refute this.
 
Dr Kynes

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
In a free society those that wanted socialism would be free to have it, but only with those that voluntarily opt in.

In an unfree society, socialism would be all inclusive by forced edict and none could escape. Forced socialism springs from the same well that slavery and all other forms of coercive government do. I defy ANYBODY to intelligently refute this.
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sometimes you say things which are just too true, but every society needs at least a LITTLE social interaction, society cannot work if everybody is adamantly dedicated to only doing what they want, and everybody else be damned.

the society you seem to advocate is a kindergarten class full of spoiled children each demanding something different for their snack, and a rearrangement of all activities to coincide with their desires.

unless the teacher puts her foot down and imposes order, they will all run about like shiftless hobos, eating paste, setting fires and stabbing each other in the eye with blunt plastic scissors.

i suspect you would be the kid in the coat room pissing on everybody's jackets, hoarding all the crayons and smearing poorly spelt swearwords on the wall with the candy bar you stole from the fat kid.

damn charlie, why you got to be such a brat?!
 
desert dude

desert dude

Well-Known Member
Stop making weapons of war and start making buses. This is a plant that makes commercial jets... That's why Americans are so scared of socialists, they are nearly too dumb to breath.


http://reason.com/blog/2013/11/21/socialist-seattle-councilmember-tells-bo

During a rally for unionized Boeing workers, Kshama Sawant, a recently elected Seattle City Councilmember and self-identified socialist, told her supporters that Boeing workers should consider taking over the factory.

Kshama Sawant Election Speech/Youtube screengrabSawant, who ran on a platform to raise the Seattle minimum wage to $15 per hour, unionize Amazon and Starbucks, increase rent control, and “reduce the unfair tax burden on small businesses, homeowners, and workers,” has been making big headlines for her electoral victory earlier this week. She is one of the first Socialist party candidates to win a major city’s election in decades. Now, just days after entering office, she is stirring crowds with radical declarations.
 
Dr Kynes

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
desert dude said:
Stop making weapons of war and start making buses. This is a plant that makes commercial jets... That's why Americans are so scared of socialists, they are nearly too dumb to breath.


http://reason.com/blog/2013/11/21/socialist-seattle-councilmember-tells-bo

During a rally for unionized Boeing workers, Kshama Sawant, a recently elected Seattle City Councilmember and self-identified socialist, told her supporters that Boeing workers should consider taking over the factory.

Kshama Sawant Election Speech/Youtube screengrabSawant, who ran on a platform to raise the Seattle minimum wage to $15 per hour, unionize Amazon and Starbucks, increase rent control, and “reduce the unfair tax burden on small businesses, homeowners, and workers,” has been making big headlines for her electoral victory earlier this week. She is one of the first Socialist party candidates to win a major city’s election in decades. Now, just days after entering office, she is stirring crowds with radical declarations.
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typical idiot marxist, thinks she has the right to "occupy" billions of dollars worth of machinery and facility to make mothefucking BUSES! who's gonna lay out the capital to retool from air cratf to buses? who's gonna design the buses? who's gonna lay out the capital to buy materials? who's gonna pay the wages while the factory is being redesigned? who will pay for the new machines needed to cast iron and aluminium engines? who's gonna keep the noble workers houses out of foreclosure before the first bus rolls out? who's gonna sell those buses to cities and deliver them?

marxism is Magical Thinking at it's worst.
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Dr Kynes said:
sometimes you say things which are just too true, but every society needs at least a LITTLE social interaction, society cannot work if everybody is adamantly dedicated to only doing what they want, and everybody else be damned.

the society you seem to advocate is a kindergarten class full of spoiled children each demanding something different for their snack, and a rearrangement of all activities to coincide with their desires.

unless the teacher puts her foot down and imposes order, they will all run about like shiftless hobos, eating paste, setting fires and stabbing each other in the eye with blunt plastic scissors.

i suspect you would be the kid in the coat room pissing on everybody's jackets, hoarding all the crayons and smearing poorly spelt swearwords on the wall with the candy bar you stole from the fat kid.

damn charlie, why you got to be such a brat?!
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You have quite an imagination. No, in a "civilized society", people that break other people's stuff owe restitution.

Smearing candy bar writings? I didn't go to public schools, I was raised by wolves.
 
Dr Kynes

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
You have quite an imagination. No, in a "civilized society", people that break other people's stuff owe restitution.

Smearing candy bar writings? I didn't go to public schools, I was raised by wolves.
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the very nature of humans requires society.

not a damned one of us could survive much less thrive on the natural environment of most of the earth's surface.

without society your every waking moment would be spent trying to catch a rabbit or scrounging for roots and berries, naked in the wilderness.
but eventually you gotta sleep and thats when youll wake up with a coyote gnawing on your foot or a bear preparing to send you though his alimentary canal.

that's why we gather in bands with mutual interests and mutual goals. even in simple hunting bands somebody will always wind up being the guy everybody looks to for leadership, which game trail to hunt today, what berries might not be poisonous, to where to erect our rude huts this season as we retreat from the advancing glaciers and their hordes of jotuns and svartalfs eager for a shot at our soft squidgy flesh, equipped with neither fangs nor claws to ward them off.

through most of history the leader has been the biggest meanest and orneriest club toting caveman in the tribe (think Lyle Alzado as Tonda) but now we choose our bosses for (presumably) wisdom cleverness, leadership and vision (Ringo Starr's Atook would be far superior to Barry Seotoro's portrayal of the fictional Barrack Obama)

it doesnt always work, but it's better than the other options, and while Atook may not always be right, at least he helped invent music, and discovered Marijuana Berries.
 
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