Why are so many growers against gun ownership?

Twistedfunk said:

p.s. He based an argument upon his assumption. An assumption that was incorrect. Basing an argument upon an assumption is an example of flawed logic.

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First off i apologize for thinking your dad had the foresight to teach you gun safety rather than the church. My argument does not base itself on your father, SOMEONE taught you and you felt no need to teach your own. Are you going to give your kids the keys to the car without teaching them to drive also? Im just saying, cuz where i live people are exposed to guns all the time, my next door neighbor owns many different guns and I own a few myself. I would wager to say that of the 12 houses on my block there are at least 120 guns between them. And i only know 3 of the neighbors well enough to know how many firearms they have. We all have our firearms in large gun vaults that kids cannot in a million years get into.They all have kids, damn kids everywhere, last intentional gun fired at a person round here was back in 1973, the last time someone around here was killed by a gun was in 1871. 4 people have died from getting hit by lightning in that same period, one of them stepped out of his home on a clear day to get his mail. Round here we educate our kids on responsible and safe use of a firearm from the time they can walk and talk. Round here you are 4 times more likely to get hit by lightning than to be shot.

If your really worried you might not want to ever leave your home, lightning is a killer.

Good riddance..

Maybe now logical people will discuss this.

Where i live you have a better chance of getting hit by lightning then being shot.
And a better chance of being attacked by a shark then being shot with a gun.
Better chance of dying in a car accident then being shot by a gun.

3lions said:

What good have guns done in the last 200 years or so? I mean okay, lets skip past murders and wars and stuff? Hmmmm

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Sure just skip all the 99% of it. War is the main use of guns buy FAR!!! But we will just whitewash that one and just make a blanket statement that guns do no good when they aren't being used as an instrument of WAR. The revolution would not have happened without guns.

I wonder how many people won't be violently attacked today because they have a gun? I wonder how many shop owners during the King riots in LA were able to keep their shops and weren't looted because they had guns? I wonder how many tax dollars you will be forced to pay because the state has a gun and you do not. If the zombies come to your house what will you do? What good have guns done indeed.

Firearms are superior weapons compared to lasers. Lasers will never replace a ballistic round that has a trajectory. Being able to hit someone completely hidden on the other side of a hill gives firearms a huge advantage over a Line of Sight Laser.

NoDrama, are you shooting through a hill? lol. That must be one badassed rifle.

I picked up another pistol the other day, 7.62x25. Tokarev, its badassed. If anyone wants a cheap, reliable, and historical (50's) pistol, this is it.

Other guns that are reasonably priced:

Mosin Nagant Pistol and Rifles, both of them are priced around 100 bucks. Own the weapons that helped the Russians beat the Germans on the eastern front. Mosin Nagant is the sniper rifle from Enemy at the Gates

WW2 Nazi Era Mausers - 300 bucks all day long.

Lee Enfields - 200 bucks. Fastest bolt action of WW2, and used for many many years

Mannlicher - Late 1800's German rifle, 80-100 bucks. Seriouisly, what other 120 year old antique are you going to buy for 100 bucks.

TT-33/M57 Tokarevs, from many countries. 200 bucks and the ammo is insanely cheap. Great pistols.

Best Value in firearms :

Romanian PSL/Dragonuvs 500 bucks online.

Romanian/Bulgarian AK's 400 bucks online.

Dont bother trying to buy American made rifles, they are insanely priced (1000 bucks for a ok one)

Carthoris said:

NoDrama, are you shooting through a hill? lol. That must be one badassed rifle.

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Thats what I meant by Ballistic, you see the earth is curved and lasers only shoot in straight lines. Due to a bullets ballistics it can indeed hit someone completely hidden behind a hill and NO you do not shoot through the hill, you aim high up so that gravity brings it back down on top of their heads, ballisitics. Lasers do not have ballistics, without some kind of reflector up in the sky (Real Genius anyone?)a laser can only shoot what you can see. Thats the point I was trying to make, lasers cannot replace firearms because they cannot do what a ballistic round can do.

hey only police and government are allowed to guns, not the slaves. lol that should put an end to this arguement pretty fast. And the fact that our founding fathers understood that guns are diffrence between slavery or freedom.

Carthoris said:

Dont bother trying to buy American made rifles, they are insanely priced (1000 bucks for a ok one)

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Remington 700, probably one of the most accurate factory made rifles ever produced. You can get these for $600. They are top notch American Made rifles. Legendary hunting rifle.

I agree with you that most of the semi auto assault type weapons made in USA are spendy, but have you priced a H&K or a Swiss arms? They are rather spendy also.

I got a Old (30+ yrs) Derringer in .38 special the other day for $60 and it came with a full box (50) of ammo, the original box and all literature . The guy I got it from was the original owner and had never shot it, said he was afraid of the recoil of a big special round in such a small pistol. I took it to the range a few hours after purchase and put 40 rounds through it, wasn't that bad at all, not very accurate past 10 feet but the thing was meant to be a close shooter. Felt like you were bouncing a carpenters hammer off your hand when you shot it.

The 700 is very accurate, I agree completely. Most ranges only go to 100 yards and I don't know where you would need to make a 500 yard shot. The lowly mosin nagant 91/30 costs me about 100 bucks out the door, the rounds are 20 cents a piece, and it just looks cool with all the hard wood and the bayonet. Easily comparable to a .308 or a 30-06. I don't think most people are even close to capable of being able to max out the performance of a rifle, it takes a lot of practice to become just average average. I really think being able to shoot 100 rounds for 25 dollars vs 100 rounds for 50 or 75 dollars makes a big difference to me. The cost of ammo is a big reason why I got a Romanian PSL. I probably shot many times more rounds because of the cheapness of the ammo. I am just getting into the hand loading, though the only rounds I really have to reload are .303 brit (dollar a piece, come on lol) Happily, it slugs out around .311 and my PSL does also, so I have the bullets for loading up 7.62 x 54 rounds. Though honestly, I probably need to run 5k more rounds through my rifles before I really need to start hand loading.

I mostly collect old guns myself. I probably don't shoot as much as I should. I wouldn't buy any of the crazy expensive guns, they just aren't worth it to me. I look at it like this.. what gun am I going to buy is going to be sexier than my PSL or cheaper to shoot?

I was surprised how easy the Tokarev was to shoot honestly, I thought it would give a good wallup. The round is longer than a .45. Its a sub machine gun round. They used it in the PPSHs (russian thompson gun more or less) The trigger definitely needed work though.

I just like getting people into shooting, and for 200 dollars you can get a mosin nagant and 500 rounds of ammo. Though it does kick a little.

(200 dollars you can get a mosin nagant and 500 rounds of ammo)

I want one......

Mosin Nagant Rifle, 79.95(With Bayonet, cleaning/tool kit, sling, oil bottle, and bayonet)
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?groupid=90

7.62x54 Ammo, 440 rounds 89.95 (79.95 if you buy 2)
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=A76254R&groupid=186

160 bucks, 25 dealer transfer fee, and then shipping.

Just go to a pawn shop and ask them if they will transfer the gun for you from an online gunshop. OR get your FFL03, which allows you to order guns online and have them sent to your house. It only works for collecters guns(guns older than 50 years or historical - lots of awesome guns for very cheap) Its 30 bucks for 3 years (it saves you that 25 dollar transfer fee for each gun) All you do is fill out the paper, send in a check, and wait a few weeks. They send you your license, and then you can order online and it comes to your front door.

Carthoris said:

Mosin Nagant Rifle, 79.95(With Bayonet, cleaning/tool kit, sling, oil bottle, and bayonet)
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?groupid=90

7.62x54 Ammo, 440 rounds 89.95 (79.95 if you buy 2)
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=A76254R&groupid=186

160 bucks, 25 dealer transfer fee, and then shipping.

Just go to a pawn shop and ask them if they will transfer the gun for you from an online gunshop. OR get your FFL03, which allows you to order guns online and have them sent to your house. It only works for collecters guns(guns older than 50 years or historical - lots of awesome guns for very cheap) Its 30 bucks for 3 years (it saves you that 25 dollar transfer fee for each gun) All you do is fill out the paper, send in a check, and wait a few weeks. They send you your license, and then you can order online and it comes to your front door.

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Sweet..I have to see if i can get myself a gun license/permit so i can do the collector thing.

Carthoris said:

Mosin Nagant Rifle, 79.95(With Bayonet, cleaning/tool kit, sling, oil bottle, and bayonet)
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?groupid=90

7.62x54 Ammo, 440 rounds 89.95 (79.95 if you buy 2)
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=A76254R&groupid=186

160 bucks, 25 dealer transfer fee, and then shipping.

Just go to a pawn shop and ask them if they will transfer the gun for you from an online gunshop. OR get your FFL03, which allows you to order guns online and have them sent to your house. It only works for collecters guns(guns older than 50 years or historical - lots of awesome guns for very cheap) Its 30 bucks for 3 years (it saves you that 25 dollar transfer fee for each gun) All you do is fill out the paper, send in a check, and wait a few weeks. They send you your license, and then you can order online and it comes to your front door.

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Wow fantastic site, Rep Bomb for you.

Glad you liked it, here's some more sites that have great prices/selection.

http://www.southernohiogun.com/ Great site, great prices, a little hard to navigate (you can search for guns that dont show up on the navigation)

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/default.aspx Good prices, every different type of military surplus you could want (even deactivated landmines and rocket launchers/missles) Gas masks for like 5-10 dollars, its pretty decent.

http://www.ammoman.com/ Awesome prices on Ammo, Free Shipping.

http://www.classicarms.us/ Is Alright, has good deals sometimes.

There are occasionally other places that have decent prices, but those are the best. I also find checking out the pawn shops nets me decent guns occasionally at very reasonable prices. Sometimes half of what its worth.

the american government want to ban gun ownership, they will do this b4 they declare martial law on the country. So it makes it easier to send u lot to the fema concentration camps that they have biuilt and are fully staffed already.

Evil

I don't know that it is as bad as that yet, Evil, it wouldn't completely surprise me, crazier things have happened. What Government that has ever existed did not fail? Its not exactly like any of the countries that are around now are the same ones that were here 500 years ago, or even 100-200 in most cases. America, 200 years old. We almost broke apart already once. England isn't exactly running the same government it used to. How many times has Germany changed in 100 years? Why would anyone think our government will stay around and unabusive forever? If our government doesn't start abusing us then someone elses government will at some point. It's not exactly rocket science. Id prefer at least the ability to die fighting than to live as a slave. Even if it doesn't happen this generation, who is to say the next will not have to deal with this? Who protected America from attacks before we got a runaway military budget? I am pretty sure it was the people. You know, We The People. They also hung people who did evil things back then.. maybe that's what our country is lacking. Spanking is bad, capital punishment is bad. If a child is bad, its ADD or FUCK or BULLSHIT or some other disease someone made up. In reality, the parents are dickwads and taught the children to be dickwads, and they grew up to be dickwads, and had dickwad children of their own.

Please wont someone think of the children?!

If they really want to lock you up in 'fema concentration camps' you're bolt-action rifle and 500 rounds of ammo aren't going to be of much use.

Remember? They have apache helicopters and napalm...

abe23 said:

If they really want to lock you up in 'fema concentration camps' you're bolt-action rifle and 500 rounds of ammo aren't going to be of much use.

Remember? They have apache helicopters and napalm...

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Apache heli's and napalm are a bit extreme, I doubt they are going to risk millions of dollars of hardware to catch one person. Besides Napalm is a killer, not a capturer. They will send people if they want to lock you up, and you can shoot them.