Why are so many growers against gun ownership?

abe23

Active Member
I'm looking at maybe getting a ruger mini-14 in the .223, anyone ever owned one...?

I'm all for people owning guns if they want to , but I do believe in letting state and local governments decide what kinds of guns people can own. As long as they allow you to own a gun, even if you can't own a handgun, you're second amendement rights aren't being violated in my view. If DC decides that it doesn't want to allow handguns, that should be their right under the 10th amendment, no?
 

rucca

Active Member
My only problem with people being allowed to own guns is that it makes me feel inadequate not having a gun. I don't want to have the responsibility of gun ownership

edit: I still say yes to guns though - don't tread on me.
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
That is true, but I think the OP is referring to how Growers actually FEEL about gun ownership. Harsh penalties aside, I think everybody should own at least one. Dogs are great too!:joint:
IMO it depends where you live/what kind of gun. If you live out in the cuts and want to have a rifle to scare off a mountain lion that's one thing, but I don't think anyone needs to have a mac 10 living in SF.
 

brickedup417

Well-Known Member
IMO it depends where you live/what kind of gun. If you live out in the cuts and want to have a rifle to scare off a mountain lion that's one thing, but I don't think anyone needs to have a mac 10 living in SF.
i think if you want to own a gun, then its your right i love guns.....and what difference does it make what kind you like?
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
i think if you want to own a gun, then its your right i love guns.....and what difference does it make what kind you like?
The difference is I've never been walking around at night and have someone pull a deer rifle on me. Hand guns are easy to conceal in a city environment, rifles are not. If you want to have a rifle or shotgun to defend your home, fine. Hand guns are more offensive weapons. They cause more problems than they solve. If you need a handgun for the option to use against other humans you need to rethink your life or living situation. A shotgun with bird shot will stop someone breaking into your house.

Someone's right to love guns ends when they point one at me. If I love nuclear missiles, should I be able to own one?
 

blazin256

Well-Known Member
I'm looking at maybe getting a ruger mini-14 in the .223, anyone ever owned one...?

I'm all for people owning guns if they want to , but I do believe in letting state and local governments decide what kinds of guns people can own. As long as they allow you to own a gun, even if you can't own a handgun, you're second amendement rights aren't being violated in my view. If DC decides that it doesn't want to allow handguns, that should be their right under the 10th amendment, no?
sure, if the second amendment didn't protect that right. much like if congress or voters wanted to make a law that required us to go to church.
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
You should read your own linked source..... Possession of a firearm while charged with a drug felony is an additional 5 years minimum to LIFE WITHOUT PAROLE. SECTION III.

If you read section I. anyone in possession of a firearm at time of arrest with possession of paraphernalia, or test positive for drugs or in possession of drugs, even if claimed as personal faces an additional 10 years in federal prison, 15 years if it is a third offense.

The charge is called "possession of a firearm during a drug trafficking offense" Manufacture of marijuana is one such drug trafficking offense.

the fact that it was a misdemeanor NoDrama indicates they didn't not have enough plants to be charged with manufacture of or trafficking of marijuana.
i didn't misread it, that clause only pertains if the gun went across state lines.
 

Serapis

Well-Known Member
i didn't misread it, that clause only pertains if the gun went across state lines.
Dude, Google the words possession manufacture felony firearm

If you can't figure it out from there, I don't know what to tell you. Possession of a firearm while in the commission of a felony is going to tack on 10 years. Growers or dealers caught with firearms routinely face Federal firearm charges at the felonious level. For you to sit here today and tell us otherwise is pure bull shit.

http://www.wavy.com/dpp/news/local_news/250-pot-plants-recovered-by-task-force
http://www.cedartownstd.com/view/full_story/290391/article-Plants-seized--resident-charged-with-manufacturing-marijuana
http://www.hallcounty.org/sheriff/sheriff_pressfull.asp?ID=1406

It is formally called Possession of a Firearm During the Commission of a Felony

Spin it any way you want, you are wrong. Firearms at grow scenes will add federal time to your sentence. We are of course talking US law...
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
You should use links that actually help to prove your point, but you did not. Nowhere in any of those examples you chose did the folks get time added on to their sentences for owning a firearm. You know charges are just that, charges, they don't mean anything until you actually are found guilty and sentenced. Also NONE of your examples show any FEDERAL charges, and that is what we are talking about FEDERAL, not this state shit, every state is different. For it to have FEDERAL charges the guns must have gone across state lines. That interstate commerce clause they put in that thing called the US Constitution.

So I guess I will just spin in a factual way. If you get caught growing weed and you have a firearm, most likely the federal charges will never happen at all. Most drug crimes are state crimes, 99% of them do not have any federal sentencing at all becasue there are no federal crimes committed. You are confusing state laws with federal laws and State penalties with Federal Penalties. If you get busted selling tons of weed in your state you are going to be going up against the state's attorneys not Federal Prosecutors.

In short, unless you transported your weapons across state lines, there will be no federal penalties applied at all.
 

Serapis

Well-Known Member
You should use links that actually help to prove your point, but you did not. Nowhere in any of those examples you chose did the folks get time added on to their sentences for owning a firearm. You know charges are just that, charges, they don't mean anything until you actually are found guilty and sentenced. Also NONE of your examples show any FEDERAL charges, and that is what we are talking about FEDERAL, not this state shit, every state is different. For it to have FEDERAL charges the guns must have gone across state lines. That interstate commerce clause they put in that thing called the US Constitution.

So I guess I will just spin in a factual way. If you get caught growing weed and you have a firearm, most likely the federal charges will never happen at all. Most drug crimes are state crimes, 99% of them do not have any federal sentencing at all becasue there are no federal crimes committed. You are confusing state laws with federal laws and State penalties with Federal Penalties. If you get busted selling tons of weed in your state you are going to be going up against the state's attorneys not Federal Prosecutors.

In short, unless you transported your weapons across state lines, there will be no federal penalties applied at all.
I'm done trying to set you straight. Anyone else reading along is free to view both arguments and make their own choice. The federal law is quite clear on this, no matter what your opinion is. It is a Felony that means 10 years in Federal custody without a chance of parole. Ask your lawyer and quit giving fucked up advice in here regarding weapons and felonies. The reason I cited those articles is because every last defendant was charged with possession of a firearm while committing a felony. It is a charge that usually sticks, especially with drug trafficking cases, but you know it all.. lol

A felony is a felony. Look into state laws regarding the number of plants that constitutes trafficking, add a weapon to that number and your dumb ass is doing federal time or plea bargaining your ass off of it. It's 10 years, no parole.
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
I'm done trying to set you straight. Anyone else reading along is free to view both arguments and make their own choice. The federal law is quite clear on this, no matter what your opinion is. It is a Felony that means 10 years in Federal custody without a chance of parole. Ask your lawyer and quit giving fucked up advice in here regarding weapons and felonies. The reason I cited those articles is because every last defendant was charged with possession of a firearm while committing a felony. It is a charge that usually sticks, especially with drug trafficking cases, but you know it all.. lol

A felony is a felony. Look into state laws regarding the number of plants that constitutes trafficking, add a weapon to that number and your dumb ass is doing federal time or plea bargaining your ass off of it. It's 10 years, no parole.
None of your examples were charged with a single FEDERAL crime or had even 1 single FEDERAL charge. Not a single one. You hate being wrong and can't own up to it can you? You can have 200000 plants, 10 tons of marijuana and as long as you did not go over state lines the fed has NOTHING to do with your prosecution. LOL you think the Feds are going after these people? Your very misinformed. You think that all 93 US attorneys are prosecuting all the drug cases? really? You think 93 people can try and convict 1.5 million people who are arrested for drugs each year? Hell NO!!!

You really don't know how the justice system works do you?
 

Carthoris

Well-Known Member
NoDrama,

Using it as paper may have been the real reason, but they used morality and society as the excuse/reason while outlawing it. "I want hemp outlawed because I own a wood pulp plant" would not of passed muster.

The constitution is a set of laws that we guide our country by. It is the foundation of our laws, each principle in it is a block that holds our country up. Without the blocks holding it up, the country falls to the ground.

My assertion is that it is easy to buy a fully automatic, yes. It is very easy. Find the gun(there are at least 2-3 guns that carry them in my town, or go online) Then fill out the paperwork. Wait for a while, get the gun. Its not complicated or hard, it just requires money, which I never mentioned. I know the process very well, and I still agree with my assertion that it is easy. I live in a non commie state as far as gun ownership. I can walk into any gun shop and buy a semi auto ak and take it home right then.

I like guns too:)
 

Carthoris

Well-Known Member
A federal appeals court has ruled that simply carrying a weapon while growing marijuana is a crime in itself.
The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals affirmed the conviction of a Medford-area man who argued that keeping a .45 caliber semiautomatic pistol within reach while sleeping in a tent at a marijuana operation was not a separate crime.
Somkhit Thongsy was charged with possession of a firearm in furtherance of a felony after U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration agents raided a large marijuana farm in the remote Wolf Creek area of Southern Oregon in the spring of 2007.
The appeals court ruled Monday the evidence the pistol was part of the drug operation was overwhelming, and it was not used for hunting or kept in the tent by accident.

One states gun possession wordage: "mandatory sentence enhancements for any serious felony, such as murder, rape, aggravated assault, burglary or robbery, committed with a firearm. The penalty is increased if a machine gun or a semiautomatic firearm with magazine capacity of more than 20 centerfire cartridges is possessed during a serious felony or narcotics offense."

'committed with a firearm' You can't commit murder with a firearm if its in the other room, likewise with cultivating marijuana.

Possession is the word used, not ownership, in any of cases I can find. Having a gun in your hand is different than owning a gun. They may apply 'serious felony' to marijuana growing, however, possession means to have on your person. No one can legitimately say you have a antique shotgun you have hanging on the wall is in your possession at the time of a felony.

Note they found him in possession of it, cause it was right up against him. That sounds like its only a felony if used for the grow as protection. If you rob someone in front of your house with a knife, they don't automatically give you a felony for owning a gun.
Also, how many people get federal charges with a grow at home?

That had nothing to do with my post, however, and was not pertinent.



The post was mostly:


How can you be oppressed as a user/grower of marijuana based only on what someone else thinks of what you are doing, then support legalization of weed because you feel its a personal choice, not that harmful, and because you simply enjoy it yet turn around and try to oppress another group based only on your opinion of what they like to do?


I was just trying to get people to honestly ask themselves why they don't support others rights to do what they want yet think that they should have the right to do whatever they want themselves.




 

Serapis

Well-Known Member
None of your examples were charged with a single FEDERAL crime or had even 1 single FEDERAL charge. Not a single one. You hate being wrong and can't own up to it can you? You can have 200000 plants, 10 tons of marijuana and as long as you did not go over state lines the fed has NOTHING to do with your prosecution. LOL you think the Feds are going after these people? Your very misinformed. You think that all 93 US attorneys are prosecuting all the drug cases? really? You think 93 people can try and convict 1.5 million people who are arrested for drugs each year? Hell NO!!!

You really don't know how the justice system works do you?
The word is FELONY, not Federal....

DEFINE FELONY: A serious crime for which the punishment is prison for more than a year or death, although the threshold varies from state to state.

Crimes of less gravity are called misdemeanours; also spelled misdemeanor.

If you are in possession of a firearm while committing a felony, you will add ten years to your sentence to be served concurrent without the possibility of parole. That is a FEDERAL LAW. The guilty will serve in a state prison.

You have totally tried to twist this conversation around. 1.5 million people aren't arrested for growing marijuana while in possession of firearms each year.

FACT: This thread asks why so many growers are against guns
FACT: I stated I'm against them while growing because of additional felony charges
FACT: Being in possession of a firearm while trafficking or manufacturing schedule 1 substances is a separate charge, a felony. The charge is called being in possession of a firearm while in the commission of a felony. I cited you examples in which the growers were charged an additional felony for being in possession of weapons. It is a mandatory 10 years all by itself.

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=possession+of+firearm+commission+of+a+felony <---- Got it all set up for you.

Your statement that growing and being in possession of weapons can't get you into anymore trouble is in fact not correct. It is a felony....

I do know how the justice system works. Anybody that grows better understand it and the laws that affect them. You give up your right to possess a firearm if you are growing enough plants for it to be considered a felony in your state. Check out the Google link. What constitutes felonious growing varies from state to state. The firearms law does not. Mandatory minimum of 10 years, no parole!
 

doc111

Well-Known Member
The word is FELONY, not Federal....

DEFINE FELONY: A serious crime for which the punishment is prison for more than a year or death, although the threshold varies from state to state.

Crimes of less gravity are called misdemeanours; also spelled misdemeanor.

If you are in possession of a firearm while committing a felony, you will add ten years to your sentence to be served concurrent without the possibility of parole. That is a FEDERAL LAW. The guilty will serve in a state prison.

You have totally tried to twist this conversation around. 1.5 million people aren't arrested for growing marijuana while in possession of firearms each year.

FACT: This thread asks why so many growers are against guns
FACT: I stated I'm against them while growing because of additional felony charges
FACT: Being in possession of a firearm while trafficking or manufacturing schedule 1 substances is a separate charge, a felony. The charge is called being in possession of a firearm while in the commission of a felony. I cited you examples in which the growers were charged an additional felony for being in possession of weapons. It is a mandatory 10 years all by itself.

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=possession+of+firearm+commission+of+a+felony <---- Got it all set up for you.

Your statement that growing and being in possession of weapons can't get you into anymore trouble is in fact not correct. It is a felony....

I do know how the justice system works. Anybody that grows better understand it and the laws that affect them. You give up your right to possess a firearm if you are growing enough plants for it to be considered a felony in your state. Check out the Google link. What constitutes felonious growing varies from state to state. The firearms law does not. Mandatory minimum of 10 years, no parole!
The law is very confusing. State laws are going to vary but it's my understanding that posessing a gun while carrying weed is an extra charge in most of them. :joint:
 

Carthoris

Well-Known Member
Serapis,

Nowhere in any of your links does it state that those people had federal charges, nor does it say that they were convicted(this is important), also, s
tate crimes are typically all conduct that violates state laws, such as murder, traffic violations, and other areas where conduct is completely encompassed in the state. Federal crimes are specifically enumerated federal offenses, such as IRS violations, mail fraud, kidnapping, counterfeiting, damaging or destroying mailboxes, and immigration offenses.

If the federal law specifically prescribed 5 years for every person who owns a gun and then commits a felony then every person who owned a gun and got a dui would go directly to prison for 5 years. The law obviously is for possession, not ownership. Therefor, it can be argued that you are wrong. There are no cases of anyone being charged with this via federal law. State law yes, and that's because there is a specific state law that says it, not the federal law. Once again, Possession is not Ownership and Ownership is not Possession.
 

Carthoris

Well-Known Member
I actually was called as a witness in a marijuana trial once. Federal court. It was only put as federal because they charged him with conspiracy to import from mexico. Granted, there was no evidence of any of this, he still got convicted. The others who got caught plead guilty and made plea bargains and put the person as the 'ring leader'. Without all that, it would of been a state matter. It only was investigated by feds because they were tracing it from Mexico. Conspiracy to import like 2500 pounds or whatever, even though they caught him with 200 in a vehicle.

Did you know that legally they can search a vehicle that is parked in your yard under a clause in the law called something like "open field law" without a warrant. Basically, any vehicle that is parked in what is not considered to be the parking spaces for a property can be searched by police without a warrant. Lets say you have 10 acres, and you fence your house in, and you just park your car outside the fence instead of bringing it in and putting it in the driveway, then the cops can search it if they want. Pretty screwed up isnt it?
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
The word is FELONY, not Federal....

DEFINE FELONY: A serious crime for which the punishment is prison for more than a year or death, although the threshold varies from state to state.

Crimes of less gravity are called misdemeanours; also spelled misdemeanor.

If you are in possession of a firearm while committing a felony, you will add ten years to your sentence to be served concurrent without the possibility of parole. That is a FEDERAL LAW. The guilty will serve in a state prison.

You have totally tried to twist this conversation around. 1.5 million people aren't arrested for growing marijuana while in possession of firearms each year.

FACT: This thread asks why so many growers are against guns
FACT: I stated I'm against them while growing because of additional felony charges
FACT: Being in possession of a firearm while trafficking or manufacturing schedule 1 substances is a separate charge, a felony. The charge is called being in possession of a firearm while in the commission of a felony. I cited you examples in which the growers were charged an additional felony for being in possession of weapons. It is a mandatory 10 years all by itself.

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=possession+of+firearm+commission+of+a+felony <---- Got it all set up for you.

Your statement that growing and being in possession of weapons can't get you into anymore trouble is in fact not correct. It is a felony....

I do know how the justice system works. Anybody that grows better understand it and the laws that affect them. You give up your right to possess a firearm if you are growing enough plants for it to be considered a felony in your state. Check out the Google link. What constitutes felonious growing varies from state to state. The firearms law does not. Mandatory minimum of 10 years, no parole!
lets simplify this shall we? If you get caught growing pot and you have a .45 stuck in your waistband, you are going to get charged with possession of a firearm while in commission of a felony in most states. You are not going to see ANY federal punishments. They are NOT going to add 10 years minimum to your sentence unless your STATE laws say so. The only time you would automatically get the 10 year minimum is if YOU ARE PROSECUTED IN A FEDERAL COURT UNDER FEDERAL LAWS!!! You are very confused on states vs federal prosecutions. There is not FEDERAL jurisdiction in most (99%) drug possession cases.

You have totally tried to twist this conversation around. 1.5 million people aren't arrested for growing marijuana while in possession of firearms each year.
you might want to reread what I wrote, because I did not assert that 1.5 million people get arrested for growing MJ each year. here let me quote it for you so you don't have to go looking for it again.

You think 93 people can try and convict 1.5 million people who are arrested for drugs each year?
Does that say anything about growing?

If you are unable to understand what I write, please let me know and I will "Dumb it down" for ya.
 

mygirls

Medical Marijuana (MOD)
I have noticed that many people I would consider to be good people, and who smoke, are against guns. The reasoning seems to be "Guns kill people", "Guns like that aren't for self protection", or "You don't need a gun"

I never understood this reasoning. Isn't this the same reasoning that keeps Marijuana illegal for the most part throughout the world? Why don't people realize that if you don't stand up for others rights even when you don't agree with them, that they won't stand up for yours?

Outlawing marijuana was done for society, and for morality's sake. All smokers and growers bemoan that, but then they will turn around and say that guns should be illegal for morality and society. I do not understand how people who understand being oppressed can visit this upon someone else.

AK47s, M16s are legal and they are very easy to purchase. Machine Guns can be purchased Legally, Rocket Launchers, Tanks, I can buy a friggin war ship if I had the money.

Questions to ask yourself:

1) When was the last time you or someone you know was robbed with an AK47?
2) How many people legitimately get assaulted with a rifle many of you would consider evil?
3) People don't need 5 ton hummers, 8 bedroom houses, swimming pools, 2 computers, beef, antiques, collectibles, 400 dollar ph meters, or books - do you have any of these things? Do they make you happy?
4) Why is having a gun any different than owning a 5 ton hummer which I could drive through a parade and kill literally a thousand people in a few minutes?

It just seems that so many people are who love the Marijuana plant like I do, and defend it as harmless, as making people happy, or some other reasoning refuse to believe that a gun might do that for someone else? Blowing off 500 rounds of ammo at a gun range is right up there with riding a jetski/atv or skydiving.

I am ranting, yes, but I also ask you to honestly question yourself as to your motives.

One of the biggest reasons to be pro-gun is this: The governments of the world killed 170 million unarmed people in the last 100 years. Mass murders of unarmed people. Without a government you can trust to protect you from themselves, who do you turn to? Sure, I am not capable of going Rambo and taking out the US military if they decide to turn America into a Nazi concentration camp. I might feel better knowing that there are 200 million privately owned guns in America to back me up if the government turned to that way. (again should I say - we 'interned' the japanese and they lost their lives and had nothing when they came out)

Another reason is that its the LAW: The constitution pointedly says the people of the United States of America have the right to be armed. They went out of their way to make sure it was the people and not the government. If you understand the period, and what they were getting at they were protecting themselves FROM their own government even then. They knew that over time the government would overstep its bounds and oppress the people. People with guns seldom take orders from people without guns. If you don't believe in the founding principles set forth, then you don't believe in free speech, the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness either. All the rights granted to every human in the constitution are entangled. You cannot pick the rights you want to invoke and ban the ones that you don't like so much. It is an all or nothing thing, or the very fabric of our society will fail.

Some quotes from our founding fathers:

"A free people ought to be armed."
"Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth."
"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government."
-George Washington

"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
"The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."
"On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
- Thomas Jefferson

"To disarm the people is the most effectual way to enslave them."
- George Mason

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe."
"The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops."
- Noah Webster

"Americans have the right and advantage of being armed, unlike the people of other countries, whose leaders are afraid to trust them with arms."
"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country."
- James Madison

"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined.... The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun."
- Patrick Henry

"This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty.... The right of self defense is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction."
- St. George Tucker

"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."
- Samual Adams

"The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them."
- Joseph Story

"What, Sir, is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty .... Whenever Governments mean to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins."
- Rep. Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts

" ... for it is a truth, which the experience of all ages has attested, that the people are commonly most in danger when the means of insuring their rights are in the possession of those of whom they entertain the least suspicion."
- Alexander Hamilton

Does it sound like any of those people thought you should restrict gun ownership to the population? Or did it sound like they modeled our entire government to protect us from the government?

Thank you for reading,

Carthoris
the only reason i got guns is for hunting 1st, home protection 2nd.
 
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