Why buy regular seeds
- Thread starter DG1959
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The_Herban_Legend
Well-Known Member
TheChemist77
Well-Known Member
just read a thing about how feminized seeds are breeding plants without the male genes and if it continues many strains will be lost.. so its nice to buy a few fems so sexing isnt an issue and ive never had a problem with fem seeds herming.. but i like to buy a few fems and a few regular seeds when possible so in the future i can breed to retain the strain if need be..i had originally read an article on buying only regular seeds to find the best quality mothers, but ive had some really kick ass moms that wer from fem seeds too.
fem seeds are for people that dont have the time or space to go through a bunch of seeds to find a good mom, your going to get a female every time..or for outdoor growers who dont want a seeded garden, they can plant all fem seeds,leave and just come back to harvest without the worrying of seeded out crap...
however in order to retain the best strains i feel its our duty as growers to buy at least some regular seeds so that our favorite strains dont get lost.. it seems 87% of the seeds bought today are feminized wile only 13% buy regular seeds.. that causes a huge problem as seed companies then produce lots of fem seeds and some strains are not even available as regulars...if a strain is only available as feminized its only a matter of time before its gone forever the only way to keep it would be cloning..
so i recomend to all if you really like a certain strain buy regular seeds or a few of each so that you can always plant the regulars get a good male and pollinate your best female then start back crossing,, yeh its time consuming, but in the end you can stock pile a bunch of stabilized seeds that are going to produce plants of that certain strain you wanted to keep...
fem seeds are for people that dont have the time or space to go through a bunch of seeds to find a good mom, your going to get a female every time..or for outdoor growers who dont want a seeded garden, they can plant all fem seeds,leave and just come back to harvest without the worrying of seeded out crap...
however in order to retain the best strains i feel its our duty as growers to buy at least some regular seeds so that our favorite strains dont get lost.. it seems 87% of the seeds bought today are feminized wile only 13% buy regular seeds.. that causes a huge problem as seed companies then produce lots of fem seeds and some strains are not even available as regulars...if a strain is only available as feminized its only a matter of time before its gone forever the only way to keep it would be cloning..
so i recomend to all if you really like a certain strain buy regular seeds or a few of each so that you can always plant the regulars get a good male and pollinate your best female then start back crossing,, yeh its time consuming, but in the end you can stock pile a bunch of stabilized seeds that are going to produce plants of that certain strain you wanted to keep...
vostok
Well-Known Member
vostok
Well-Known Member
this depends on your intentions, to grow weed and toke...sure go feminized, but if you wanna cross some strains, maybe even toke back some traditional 'old school' weed then you will have to source in some 'land race strains', they can be difficult to find and at best always regular seeds
my concern here is if everyone is going feminized, not much of a future ahead for us, as feminized seeds are herm'd seeds, and although can be easily backcrossed, it does make for one 'unstable' strain
Joe Blows Trees
Well-Known Member
My last seed purchase was predominantly all reg with the exception of the freebies as I prefer to have a female when there's only one. I've read that reg seeds grow better than fem seeds due partly to the process of "feminizing" a seed and breeding with fem seeds was not advised. IMO, fem seeds are good starters to learn and ensure you'll have females, but if you want to expand beyond growing for quantity and perhaps create your own stable strain, regular seeds would be the best way to go.
tangerinegreen555
Well-Known Member
I use both. You can grow out a dioecious female and learn to make S-1's...
There are many clone only strains, no dioecious seeds...but an S-1 of a clone only cut is the closest some of us can get...and some strains turn out Very close to the original, others not so much...
There are many clone only strains, no dioecious seeds...but an S-1 of a clone only cut is the closest some of us can get...and some strains turn out Very close to the original, others not so much...
vostok
Well-Known Member
The deal here is to buy regular seeds and make your own femz
its a lot easier than you think
even making your own colloidal silver too
some use a 9v dc battery I prefer 27v dc(phone charger)
and usa coins but real silver wire is cheap enough oh and pure!
all it takes is a 5 minute read on any gurgle link
I did have a tut on my blog, but got replaced sorry!
its a lot easier than you think
even making your own colloidal silver too
some use a 9v dc battery I prefer 27v dc(phone charger)
and usa coins but real silver wire is cheap enough oh and pure!
all it takes is a 5 minute read on any gurgle link
I did have a tut on my blog, but got replaced sorry!
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GroErr
Well-Known Member
I buy them to have the option for breeding, will buy the odd fem if it's had great reviews or I'm looking for something that just isn't available in regs. Some strains like the majority of TGA's are reg-only, I have a prized JTR pheno that I've done some crosses with and ended up with a couple of fantastic crosses that never would have happened if I bought fems only.
TheChemist77
Well-Known Member
high times, this months write up on feminized seeds, stats and why we will lose genetics
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
WRONG! 100% WRONG!
"Feminized" seeds or S1's are NOT from HERMING!!! (Very popular misconception !!!)
They are "Backed or selfed" and the process creates real male plant sex organs - BALLS (and NOT Banana's, which are a TRUE sign of herming. Actual term for this "herming" is Bisexuality.) The chemical treatment makes the plant express actual dual sexuality.
The problem being is that the male parts express the same gene structure as the host female...
There is NO guarantee of 100% female seeds from "selfing" either! They are simply far, far, far outnumbered by the female seeds!
You CAN back S1's for the purpose of attempting to remake the strain from clone only or S1's. You need a male of known lineage to do that......Stability can be a problem, but you would be SHOCKED to know just how many "OLD" strains you buy are from rebuilt genetics from lost strains...And many of those are done so well,,, you would never know and stability is not as bad as you think..The clones from these S1's do not last near as long as F1 or "strait" run seed clones.....But you would have to be cloning for as much as years (on some strains) to figure this out as the potency and terp profiles begin to slip away...
In side by side testing by HT mag......S1's yielded better, grow shorter and bushier with no noticeable difference in vigor...
That will slip away in time from cloning1 This maybe the "stability" problem you refer to V!
V - this was posted as info - NOT a dis...
Doc
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
We will not be losing genetics anytime soon!
There are way more serious underground breeders doing work that far surpasses the bulk of the "breeders" on say the Attitude's list!
I've run some of a guy's stable for a long time.....he has a webpage and sells beans......He is just starting to be mentioned in some mags....
Some of his price's will scare away most of the "herd" here.....That's fine with me. I'll pay that big $ for the ultra premium you DON'T find in any disp......I don't put it on my shelves for many reasons!
Doc
ghb
Well-Known Member
i would say the most obvious answer ( at least to me) being: nearly all of the elite cuttings being passed about by growers were not found in packs of feminised beans.
i know there are exceptions and i know some of the cuts came from bagseed which was likely an s1 seed, but generally speaking you will see more variation in phenotypes from reg seeds. this allows the grower to select a phenotype (which they find to be outstanding and possibly different from the rest) easier than when growing fem seeds.
i know there are exceptions and i know some of the cuts came from bagseed which was likely an s1 seed, but generally speaking you will see more variation in phenotypes from reg seeds. this allows the grower to select a phenotype (which they find to be outstanding and possibly different from the rest) easier than when growing fem seeds.
Gquebed
Well-Known Member
Sexing them is easy and it takes about the same time as clonning. 5 days to pop a seed...14 days or so in beer cup...transplant to a 1 qt pot... and in another 20 days or so you will see the pistils that identify it as a girl.... vs clones 7-14 days for roots then all the same...
I used to germ 12 seeds to ensure i would get 4 decent females when i first started. A couple might not pop and maybe 1 or 2 would die along the way ... but usually got 4 or 5 girls everytime...
The advantage in that was doing different strains every round. The down side was that they didnt grow all the same....you might get different phenos or one would be a runt that took longer to get going and to finish....often could not water all four on the same day....
But there was certainly no wasted time. Just a bit of extra work with transplanting .... no biggie...
Cobnobuler
Well-Known Member
I've grappled with this since I started growing. The Mrs likes variety so what can ya do ?
Gquebed
Well-Known Member
What ive done for variety and cloning is start a group to make potential moms... acouple different strains....find the two best moms, one of each strain... then chop one for the first round of growing then keep the other mom for a second round of the other strain... two runs from fall till the spring on two different strains... but you need a small space for that seperate... i have a 5x3 for propogating and a 5x9 for flower and veg
TheChemist77
Well-Known Member
good to hear from you doc,,, i also do some breeding and stabilizing..at a smaller scale of course but i put in time,lots of time just to be sure that the seeds i store away are stable versions of the f1 strain i started with.. very seldomly do i get a phenio that is exactly like the write up and pic of the strain, but i breed to get as close to it as i can then start backing..i also create S1's of my favorites, ive never had the clones degrade,, in most cases my clone mothers get better or evolve to my grow..i also have had clones of clones of clones that start to finish sooner, get more potent, and less branchy to fit my sog style way better than the original seed mom.. i ran 1 strain for 5 years,,id still be running it if i didnt stop growing for awile...i had made S1's but after 10 years of moving and not beeing in a fridge by the time i planted them not one of the 27 popped...
any ways i prefer to buy both feminized and regulars so i always have a choice, if im low on space and need a quick mom i plant a fem, but if im planting with the intensions to find a killer mom, or plan on breeding, i go with regulars...there is actually one ocasion on which i was planting in hopes of getting a great male,,,after only 20 seeds and 7 males i found him!!!
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
Exactly! Well put.
At some point,,,,clones will begin to degrade - it takes years as I've experienced....
Your correct on the clone adjusting to your grow style!
It DOES happen and many novice growers will call that a "genetic shift".
IT IS NOT!
It IS the plant adjusting it's growth to the available conditions to be as optimal as it can.
Nice post Chem!
Doc
At some point,,,,clones will begin to degrade - it takes years as I've experienced....
Your correct on the clone adjusting to your grow style!
It DOES happen and many novice growers will call that a "genetic shift".
IT IS NOT!
It IS the plant adjusting it's growth to the available conditions to be as optimal as it can.
Nice post Chem!
Doc