Why dispensary weed SUCKS!

It is estimated that 90% of all the weed grown in CO is shipped out of the state. The reason being the growers can command a higher price for their top shelf stuff elsewhere than they can get out of dispensary's. So what is being sold as top shelf in CO is actually A- or B+ grade, not A and A+ quality. I have a number of friends who have moved to CO and still buy from me because they can't find my quality anywhere out there, at least in the price range.

Large scale growers are most concerned with yield, not quality. Bonuses are earned by growers for hitting yield numbers, not THC levels.

Well, another theory could be the capitalist style of doing biz. Cut all corners and maximize profits.

Wow. Wish I had this problem.

See the weed in my avatar thingy? That's what weed looked like in my area until very recently: brown, bricked, full of seeds. Even now we have no choice whatsoever--you get what the dealer has, and it's often damp or dried with lemon peels/bubblegum or some other middle school shit to "enhance" the appeal. I'd *kill* to have the chance to walk in a store & choose from a variety of strains with fancy names & known cannabinoid content.

But even THAT is amazing compared to what some places have to deal with. Just recently I learned about an Australian phenomenon called PGR or "Bikie Buds" which is basically mutant cannabis grown with cancer-causing growth retardants. It's covered in red hairs but doesn't really get you high...more of a headache than anything.

At the same time, I get your point. It's all subjective. There's no reason this plant should be grown using sub-par methods when we know better. There will be a market for "gourmet"/organic cannabis, landraces & other specialty stuff just like we're seeing with microbreweries if this keeps up. Just thought I'd offer some perspective from an illegal state.

SSHZ said:

Large scale growers are most concerned with yield, not quality. Bonuses are earned by growers for hitting yield numbers, not THC levels.

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Yield, time schedules, and minimized expenses are paramount throughout the entire grow, which makes the product suffer. Then you have the producers who use shit like large scale "trimming machines", or what I like to call "trichome removal stations", that probably remove at least 10% of all available trichomes on every flower they run through them. But hey....at least they can collect the trichomes in the end and use them for more product, this way they can sell the customer the same flowers TWICE.

I'll stick with homegrown, thanks.

I am good friends with someone who has worked as a grower for over ten years. They were in CO in 2010 when dispensaries were more like farmers markets, where numerous home growers were able to sell their products and have them put on the shelves. Things changed when the state congress made rules that forced shops to grow at least 70% of what they sold at retail, leaving the other 30% for inter-dispensary business dealings--this was to allow for shops that had supply issues with their 70% to buy stock from other legal producers/retailers. No one in their right mind would go ahead with that business platform and aim to just produce 70%, they would shoot for 100% and buy wholesale whatever they failed to produce themselves. This pushed out hundreds of smaller scale, yet highly talented, growers in the state.

The result of these news rules and laws was that, as usual, the people with all the money held all the power and control. Not only that, but everyone and their mother was running around plastering "master grower" next to their name--as if that title actually means anything to anyone beyond themselves. "Master" growers who failed to demonstrate said mastery over production of cannabis were sacked, and from then on no one who claimed to have expertise at growing cannabis was to be taken seriously. This, combined with the ever growing presence of big money men and power brokers from the financial and (legit) business world, led to the shop owners--who by then were investing upwards of a million dollars in their operations--to seek out consulting firms who were apt to implement a new system whereby unskilled, underpaid labor was utilized to the maximum degree while the consulting firm brought in a skilled worker to help institute protocols and procedures for said unskilled labor to run turnkey warehouse operations. You know, like a McDonalds franchise does.

The second reason why almost all shop weed is terrible is because these consultants seem to have convinced everyone that hydroponics is a waste of time and money, and that profit margins will be better with lower tech, lower effort, lower-quality-producing soil methods. My friend is not sure if this is actually true, because we have yet to see any scientific comparisons of the very few shops utilizing the hydroponic methods versus the shops utilizing cheaper, more basic soil methods.

It is within a scientific consensus of anyone who has ever read a book about botany or plants that hydroponic growing methods are far superior to that of basic earthen soil methods. The difference in the amount of water needed per gram or pound of yield alone between the two methods is significant enough that large companies like Cargill virtually only use hydroponics--a Rockwool medium, specifically. The other significant advantage of hydroponics is the rate of growth over time: a plant grown by hydro methods will outgrow a soil plant when given the same amount of time and light. This means shorter vegetative periods for the same amount of yield. Or, it can mean a much larger yield over the same amount of veg and flower time as the soil plants. Either way, it means more for less. Whether it adds up to more than the amount the big shops save by cutting corners--as hydroponic methods require slightly higher equipment and labor costs--is yet to be determined. But one thing is for sure: the quality can suffer when corners are cut.

Quality is determined by two factors, which are not equal in their influence over said quality. The first, and most influential, is the genetics of the seeds/clones being used for the garden/crop. You can pull all the grower tricks out of you hat that you want, but if you are using bad genetics, you will get bad buds. There is no way around that fact. But if you have strong genetics, it is still up to you, the grower, to make sure those awesome genetics are provided with everything they need to flourish--just like you would with your own child. Just because your own kid has great genetics doesn't mean you can't totally mess him or her up forever by being a horrible parent. Good husbandry is the second factor, and although it can never be as significant as genetics, it is still very important in the grow room. Or so I am told by my friend.

This is all par for the course of our capitalist system. As many have mentioned in this thread, these people are not out to produce a fine cannabis product, they are out to produce as much product as they possibly can, because the demand in CO and other legal states far outruns the current supply. I do think that eventually, once interstate commerce comes into play, there will be a reckoning in the legal weed industry in terms of quality control. There needs to be a free(er) marketplace in order to ensure that industry wide quality control, by way of consumer voting, is possible. When the marketplace is quasi-legal and almost wholly controlled by wealthy elites from Wall street and the Silicon Valley, quality control is whatever they say it is. Which is to say that, right now, quality control doesn't exist at all.

And not all of the shops are run by total morons who only care about making their bank account swell. A very select few of them also care about providing a higher quality product. But you better be sure to expect a much higher price for the type of weed that sparkles in the sodium lights.

0321Marine said:

I remember a time when, generally speaking, what the people demanded was a very high quality herb. Im from California, so some issues that others may have were not present here. If someone grew bad weed, it got shipped out. No one would buy it locally. But times changed. Like many have said, the passion to grow great weed is one thing.. but in business passion rarely plays a factor. Time is money, and money is time. Club growers have the incentive to grow faster not better. Now, there are plenty of exceptions and if you're lucky enough to be a regular of a great shop then good for you, and for that shop for doing it right. But its not the norm any more, and the damnedest thing to me is you so very rarely can even find good fucking strains at most dispensaries. Its always the same damned things, in several variants, being sold under a slew of made up names. Do you know how rare it is that I see a well grown White Rhino, or Northern Lights? Its been years.. years!

And that is exactly why I started growing myself. I chose Romulan, because.. fucking old school. I plan on changing my world at least, one grow at a time.

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White Rhino, well grown (and now well cured) by me!

.. I agree with this thread, that's exactly why I invested in myself, and after over 20 years off I started growing again after trying four or five local dispensaries after getting my MMJ card back in 15, couldn't justify paying for all but one or two strains and couldn't justify the prices for any of it

I believe that we are in the infancy of the cannabis commercial production era. I'd guess that the majority of folks involved in the industry have little experience in large scale commercial production industries. The learning curve is steep I'd bet. Add in that many if not all are also trying to navigate a bizarre legal maze and it appears pretty obvious that quality takes a back seat to the business side of things for now. I suspect that 5-10 years from now it won't even look the same, nor operate the same as it does now. Hopefully big gov just takes their cut and let's the market dictate the future because when left.to their own devices growers tend to find ways to optimize.

All that said, you'll never convince me that any dispensary sells weed at the quality levels that many of us here are used to. Face it folks, our "homegrown" ain't our parents homegrown. The days of chucking bag seeds in the dirt behind the house are in the books, and folks are producing some hella fire in their own homes. These are the early years IMO.

Potmetal said:

I believe that we are in the infancy of the cannabis commercial production era. I'd guess that the majority of folks involved in the industry have little experience in large scale commercial production industries. The learning curve is steep I'd bet. Add in that many if not all are also trying to navigate a bizarre legal maze and it appears pretty obvious that quality takes a back seat to the business side of things for now. I suspect that 5-10 years from now it won't even look the same, nor operate the same as it does now. Hopefully big gov just takes their cut and let's the market dictate the future because when left.to their own devices growers tend to find ways to optimize.

All that said, you'll never convince me that any dispensary sells weed at the quality levels that many of us here are used to. Face it folks, our "homegrown" ain't our parents homegrown. The days of chucking bag seeds in the dirt behind the house are in the books, and folks are producing some hella fire in their own homes. These are the early years IMO.

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i agree, "homegrown" used to imply second rate. not the case anymore, at least where i'm concerned. hope the "industry" get's its head out of it's ass soon.

MOST commercial weed sucks because the plants that it comes from have been selected to grow well, be pest resistant and yield more. After those criteria have been met, then the plants are given some kind of snappy names that make you think they must be good...but they aren't. None of it has been selected for flavor or effect. And I, for one, absolutely do NOT believe in the THC levels being as high as they are shown to be on the labels. And, if they are, then it just bolsters my brief that THC isn't "the" source of the high, anyway....so big deal if the bud has 30% THC if I can't get high from it.

Also, there's no more big buds/colas being sold -mainly because everything is in sealed packages. So, the container size/shape is determined and then the buds are trimmed to fit the container. What used to be considered as "bottom of the jar" shake and popcorn buds are now selling as premium because the packaging costs more, not because the buds are great. Everything is horribly dried out...no terpenes or volatile esters to smell, etc. Just "take it or leave it".

What used to be considered as "the good shit" was the weed that stunk like a skunk....but that type of weed was also the type that attracted pests to it when it was being grown and it stunk so bad it would give the grow location away to people who would arrest you! I believe it was something in those extremely stinky chemicals that went missing years ago and now it's just accepted that weed doesn't smell that way anymore. Now, weed smells mildly piney or lemony....mayeb a bit fruity...

So, the commercial market takes those mild, fruity strains and puts a cartoonish label on them and includes some unbelievable THC level number....and then grinds it all up and puts it into pre-rolled joints to sell to naive people.

Granted, this all works for some people because there are still many places where weed is totally illegal and the idea of there being some Land of Oz for weed seems so great to those people. It's already in their minds that the legal weed will be great, so they smoke it and then make themselves believe that they are high....because they must be....right? But, no. The same thing happened to me when I moved to a legal state and got my medical card. I thought I was in heaven....for awhile.

Now I grow my own, but the challenge is finding the real-deal genetics. All the kids say they have them....but what do they even know? They weren't even born until long after the skunks disappeared. People today think you have to break up a bud in order to smell it. LOL! When I was smoking the skunk back in the day, you could smell it from across the room if someone walked in with a bag of it in their pocket. That's not an exaggeration.

Kevin Jodery is the only guy I've listened to online who knows what the fuck I am talking about and who is actually in a position to do something about it. Keep your eye on him and his work. I know I will.

tstick said:

When I was smoking the skunk back in the day, you could smell it from across the room if someone walked in with a bag of it in their pocket. That's not an exaggeration.

Kevin Jodery is the only guy I've listened to online who knows what the fuck I am talking about and who is actually in a position to do something about it. Keep your eye on him and his work. I know I will.

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I keep mine in sealed Mason Jars for that very reason. To many times I walk into the bar and 90% of the heads spin to look at me and someone invariably asks did you hit a skunk on your way in? I say Nah just brought a bud for the bartender

This is why I'm starting to grow. I know damn well my friends have lost their ideas on what quality weed even is. They'll walk in a place and come up to me saying they got 3 grams of "loud" in a cheapo sandwhich bag. On the inside I'm fucking rolling because I would've never even known because you cant even smell it unless you put your face in it.

Weed that looks decent but lacks hairs, isn't sticky, doesn't smell, and is airy as hell. $20 a G. Like really? It's sad man

tstick said:

MOST commercial weed sucks because the plants that it comes from have been selected to grow well, be pest resistant and yield more. After those criteria have been met, then the plants are given some kind of snappy names that make you think they must be good...but they aren't. None of it has been selected for flavor or effect. And I, for one, absolutely do NOT believe in the THC levels being as high as they are shown to be on the labels. And, if they are, then it just bolsters my brief that THC isn't "the" source of the high, anyway....so big deal if the bud has 30% THC if I can't get high from it.

Also, there's no more big buds/colas being sold -mainly because everything is in sealed packages. So, the container size/shape is determined and then the buds are trimmed to fit the container. What used to be considered as "bottom of the jar" shake and popcorn buds are now selling as premium because the packaging costs more, not because the buds are great. Everything is horribly dried out...no terpenes or volatile esters to smell, etc. Just "take it or leave it".

What used to be considered as "the good shit" was the weed that stunk like a skunk....but that type of weed was also the type that attracted pests to it when it was being grown and it stunk so bad it would give the grow location away to people who would arrest you! I believe it was something in those extremely stinky chemicals that went missing years ago and now it's just accepted that weed doesn't smell that way anymore. Now, weed smells mildly piney or lemony....mayeb a bit fruity...

So, the commercial market takes those mild, fruity strains and puts a cartoonish label on them and includes some unbelievable THC level number....and then grinds it all up and puts it into pre-rolled joints to sell to naive people.

Granted, this all works for some people because there are still many places where weed is totally illegal and the idea of there being some Land of Oz for weed seems so great to those people. It's already in their minds that the legal weed will be great, so they smoke it and then make themselves believe that they are high....because they must be....right? But, no. The same thing happened to me when I moved to a legal state and got my medical card. I thought I was in heaven....for awhile.

Now I grow my own, but the challenge is finding the real-deal genetics. All the kids say they have them....but what do they even know? They weren't even born until long after the skunks disappeared. People today think you have to break up a bud in order to smell it. LOL! When I was smoking the skunk back in the day, you could smell it from across the room if someone walked in with a bag of it in their pocket. That's not an exaggeration.

Kevin Jodery is the only guy I've listened to online who knows what the fuck I am talking about and who is actually in a position to do something about it. Keep your eye on him and his work. I know I will.

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The lack of smell mostly has to do with the bud being old. The chemical compounds responsible for the smell, the volatile unsaturated hydrocarbons known as terpenes, fade away with time. Almost all cannabis will have a strong smell when it is first harvested, but that smell will diminish--not vanish--over a period of time. The shops will sell you whatever old stock they can sell you.

You are probably right about the THC numbers. I don't believe for a minute that they are above 20% THC.

Seed breeding is not something all that easy to do. It is time consuming and makes very little profit, unless you live in the Netherlands or Canada. There are some decent seed breeders/sellers in both of those countries, and all you need to do to get some quality genetics on your hands is to take the risk of ordering the seeds. If you can have them sent to a good friends house or a PO box, that would be the way to go. But once you manage to get a hold of some quality genetics, don't let them die off, and save half of the seeds so you can plant them and potentially get male plants to use to cross with. Pollen must be transferred to females immediately after being harvested.

The other option is to find quality clones from someone in your area. Which obviously means NOT from a dispensary, but from a home grower who knows what they are doing.

AmbitiousGrower said:

Its a real shame that instead of using this plant as a good medicine, people are using it just to make money

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Totally agree, it's not good karma at all to exploit the goddess cannabis. But I've come to realize that most people relate that way to most everything. And I never had a spiritual relationship to cannabis until I started growing. Then I learned how to worship

charface said:

Its the same as walmart.
Now here is an uncomfortable truth.

Customers pay for it so it exists.

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My patients won't buy from our local shops......and I grow one plant of mids each year ...as you know

Indacouch said:

My patients won't but from our local shops......and I grow one plant of mids each year ...as you know

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I remember this thread now. Lol
It just bugs me that we as a society opt for and even pay to be fucked over then bitch like we didn't actively help stomp out the mom n pops so we could buy 75cent pairs of socks.

I enjoyed benefit from supporting local business. I may have payed more for certain items but it was still worth it
In the long run

charface said:

I remember this thread now. Lol
It just bugs me that we as a society opt for and even pay to be fucked over then bitch like we didn't actively help stomp out the mom n pops so we could buy 75cent pairs of socks.

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Nailed it


Go ahead and shit this thread down mods. Nothing more to see here people.


*shit ....silly me


*shut .....silly silly me

Threads over, its time to waffle stomp this bitch.

Rather buy from a friend or grow my own or buy from a well known Dispensary. Who have Customers!..
.who allow you to see their product ,,who would allow you to smell what you buy.
its fresh rather than 4 years old store in warehouses.

OR buy from a KNOWN government run Poison sprayed shwag farm...for twice the price!

Its the complete opposite here eh.

charface said:

I remember this thread now. Lol
It just bugs me that we as a society opt for and even pay to be fucked over then bitch like we didn't actively help stomp out the mom n pops so we could buy 75cent pairs of socks.

I enjoyed benefit from supporting local business. I may have payed more for certain items but it was still worth it
In the long run

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The semi-legal pot industry has never been comparable to any other part of the US "free" market. There is no interstate commerce, so each state has its own isolated market, where each government within each state has the ability to draft and pass laws and regulations as restrictive as NM's, or as open as CO's.

In the case of CO, the state legislature is responsible for why the cannabis market is the way it is. They are the reason why only people with more than a million in cash to invest, or with wealthy investors, can participate in the marketplace. They are the reason why those people don't have to compete with anyone but themselves and their own little clique of shop owners. They are the reason why people working as growers and trimmers are paid next to nothing, and why no one has been able to start a union. These shop owners hold all the card; they have all the power in the situation. They will always have more demand than they can possibly meet with their supply, and without any real competition--inside or outside of the state--they can pretty much do whatever they want: charge whatever they want, pay employees whatever they want, and pay themselves whatever they want. Usually regulations are meant to help consumers and the public from the wealthy and powerful business owners, but in this case the regulations only served to empower them even more.

But I imagine that if, or when, the nation fully legalizes and a national marketplace is created, it won't take all that long for the smaller fish--who as of now are big fish in their own state and its isolated pot market--to be eaten and shit out by the bigger fish. And, as mentioned, the Walmart effect will come into play, and people will be more than willing to sacrifice certain things and values--like the mom and pop shop--in favor of attractively cheap pot prices. People shop at Walmart because they are poor. They feel they must save as many nickels and dimes as they can, because they are virtually wage slaves and feel they have no other choice.

People, like society itself, are much harder to manipulate and control when they don't feel like they are one step away from being homeless. A poor man with integrity and values is more than willing to cast aside his integrity, to dismiss his values, in return for a significant financial gain. A poor cop with piles of debt and bills is far more susceptible to bribes and abuse of his authority than a cop who is financially secure and not in any debt. A poor community will easily shut down their main street and mom and pop shops if it means they get to save 15% on their grocery bills. And this is where the wealthy capitalists want to keep us all. They want to keep us all just poor enough to not lose our minds and come for their heads. They want us all to be grateful for being allowed to work our lives away for them, just so we can buy that second car, that bigger TV, or bigger house, or whatever the fuck. They want to keep us where they believe we belong: dancing on the poverty line and singing about the "American dream."

i'd still be selling illegally if i was in Colorado. the people that live there have to know the dispensaries are full of garbage weed, and they have to want better. i would be providing it to them, at a better price than the pharmacies ever thought of charging.
i'm living with the threat of legal problems now, wouldn't make much difference to me there