WHY does DHS need 450 million hollow point rounds? AND buying up 7k more NATO guns!
- Thread starter MacGuyver4.2.0
- Start date
Doer
Well-Known Member
No, the main reason is over penetration. The military fights with FMJ because they want over penetration. They want many wounded. DHS wants misses to die and not bounce around and hits to stay in the perp.
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
Actually we are a constitutional republic. So the obvious out is that DHS, uuhhmm, constitutes something. cnIsn't the real question, since we're a free democratic republic, Why do we have DHS??????????????????
malignant
Well-Known Member
makes sense
Doer
Well-Known Member
Exactly, the folks that want mob rule are ones that propose we are in a "free democracy." We are in a unique Constitution. None other like it. It's a careful balance of power. Home Land Security. If by now, someone doesn't know why we put all our Homeland protection resources under one command, then, perhaps, they may never know.
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
no dice. i'm going to mock you as the tin foil hatter you are when you post nonsense like this above.
MacGuyver4.2.0
Well-Known Member
I call B.S. CN, even you are pretty level headed and have great posts here, did you read the second part of that post and see how many rounds per gun that equates to? I'll add it again in case anyone forgot to do the math.
Several issues to address here... First the testing... after 7500 rounds, the barrels will be getting close to being shot out. Chrome lined barrels are usually good to 7-8K, and the new Melonite harding process is seeing 10K+ out of the barrels. Second.. Sharing the test results with other Fed Agencies? You think this will STOP the other agencies from doing the same thing over again? When has any Fed Agency taken the word from another? Hell, they don't even share important data. Third... Why is there a DHS.. well guys, they are there to protect our GOVT officials, not the average Joe. Fourth... 7000 guns and 450M rounds of ammo, equates to 64286 rounds per gun! Something to think about here, as to why the new guns and all that ammo! Our GOVT KNOWS the public is NOT happy with them, they can't be that stupid or blind, and they are gearing up for that moment when the straw breaks the camels back. Fact is that back has already been broken... and we are all treading on a very fine wire, which could break at any moment.
Also- I happen to know people who WORK for the DHS and they even said it was 'crazy' as firearms and massive amounts of ammo are NOT thier forte. Plus, the DHS is not sharing *why* they need all that ammo even though it has been questioned pubilcally at this point. Even *with* the sub-departments they have under them, there is NO need for all that ammo, period. Something is very wrong here and it shocks me that few people even know what's going on.
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
The 450 million rounds are in .40S&W. Not destined for those 7k carbines, which are chambered 5.56 NATO/.223 Rem. Also, why posit that the ammo being purchased at the same time as the guns is exclusive to those guns, and the guns to the ammo? That's implied in your thesis here. Iirc ammo is used wherever needed and not linked to a given lot of guns. cn
MacGuyver4.2.0
Well-Known Member
Exactly. .40 S&W is typically a pistol round, correct? So WHY does the DHS need 450 million rounds of .40S&W? How many .40 S&W pistols or pistol/machine guns do they even have? They do NOT have enough employees to go through all that ammo in the next ten years even if they all went to range every week.
The NATO rifles brings up another question as to why they will basically 'wear out' all of those rifles in the need for 'testing'. Are they expecting massive Mexican invasion to transpire? Something is not adding up...
The NATO rifles brings up another question as to why they will basically 'wear out' all of those rifles in the need for 'testing'. Are they expecting massive Mexican invasion to transpire? Something is not adding up...
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
This is a wild guess, but I would not be surprised if DHS is the interim procurer for FBI and more local police agencies everywhere. That then becomes hundreds to thousands of rounds per active-duty officer. That would then become unremarkable. cn
<edit> i have learned two things just now.
1) It;s work to read Google about this topic, since dozens of oh-noes! blogs have run with this story, swallowed whole and raw.
2) The contract is for a fiveyear option with a maximum of 450 million rounds of .40 being supplied, so the actual amount delivered may be decidedly less.
Also, DHS supplies the Coast Guard as well as Customs&Immigration. Two big customers right there and there are almost certainly others. I see business as usual. cn
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/atk-civil-ammunition-business-to-supply-dhs-with-high-performance-ammunition-53299932.html
malignant
Well-Known Member
newatit2010
Well-Known Member
Maybe they need some more guns and bullets to sell to Mexico
MacGuyver4.2.0
Well-Known Member
CN- I did see the PR newswire lead as well as others, prior- thanks for posting the link anyways.
There are still questions unaswered however. I contacted my person at the FBI (yes- I know many scary three letter agency people and have for years) and he said that the FBI procures there OWN guns, ammo and explosives.
Given that there a re a FEW sub departments under DHS (I did post link to thier website with current org chart) . The coast guard and ICE do not spend that much time at the shooting range, (esp the coast guard) not enough to justify new, advanced ammo.
There are a few key words you might take note of in that PR Newswire release as well. I will highlight them in bold, let me know what you think.
MINNEAPOLIS, Jan. 4 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Alliant Techsystems
(NYSE: ATK) has received a series of contracts to supply the U.S.
Department of Homeland Security (DHS) with a variety of small-caliber
ammunition. If all contract options are exercised, the total value could
exceed $90 million. This series of contract awards elevates DHS to one of
ATK's top three civil ammunition customers. Work on the contracts will be
performed by facilities in Anoka, Minnesota and Lewiston, Idaho.
ATK will provide rifle ammunition to DHS's Immigration and Customs
Enforcement (ICE) division under a five-year opportunity with a potential
total value of approximately $75 million. The contract includes a mix of
enhanced performance rounds capable of barrier penetration, as well as
standard duty ammunition.
In addition, the company announced it will provide DHS's U.S. Coast
Guard with 40-caliber tactical pistol ammunition, also under a five-year
opportunity, with an estimated total value of $15 million if all options
are exercised.
"ATK has pioneered significant advances in projectile technology and
has incorporated these improvements into the rounds it will provide to
DHS," said Mark DeYoung, President, ATK Ammunition Systems Group. "This
ammunition performs extremely well against a variety of barriers."
ATK is a $3.4 billion advanced weapon and space systems company
employing approximately 15,000 people in 22 states. News and information
can be found on the Internet at http://www.atk.com .
Notice how MUCH ammo ICE is getting and the types. Also notice how little the Coast Guard is getting. Like I said, that's ALOT of ammo going to DHS and ICE.
Can you say tactical ammo that penetrates cars, trucks and other barriers? I may have to re-evaluate my .45 RA45T Ranger rounds against this 'Zombie Hoard' that DHS is prepping for.
http://www.winchester.com/Products/le/handgun-ammunition/ranger/t-series/Pages/RA45T.aspx
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
I simply don't know, MG420. I've already been reduced to guesswork. Unfortunately the articles i did find are suggestive rather than informative. Thanks for the info on the FBI. I do wonder who Alliant's other two big domestic customers are. So I have to yield at this time. cnCN- I did see the PR newswire lead as well as others, prior- thanks for posting the link anyways.
I contacted my person at the FBI (yes- I know many scary three letter agency people and have for years) and he said that the FBI procures there OWN guns, ammo and explosives.
Given that there a re a FEW sub departments under DHS (I did post link to thier website with current org chart) . The coast guard and ICE do not spend that much time at the shooting range, (esp the coast guard) not enough to justify new, advanced ammo.
There are a few key words you might take note of in that PR Newswire release as well. I will highlight them in bold, let me know what you think.
MINNEAPOLIS, Jan. 4 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Alliant Techsystems
(NYSE: ATK) has received a series of contracts to supply the U.S.
Department of Homeland Security (DHS) with a variety of small-caliber
ammunition. If all contract options are exercised, the total value could
exceed $90 million. This series of contract awards elevates DHS to one of
ATK's top three civil ammunition customers. Work on the contracts will be
performed by facilities in Anoka, Minnesota and Lewiston, Idaho.
ATK will provide rifle ammunition to DHS's Immigration and Customs
Enforcement (ICE) division under a five-year opportunity with a potential
total value of approximately $75 million. The contract includes a mix of
enhanced performance rounds capable of barrier penetration, as well as
standard duty ammunition.
In addition, the company announced it will provide DHS's U.S. Coast
Guard with 40-caliber tactical pistol ammunition, also under a five-year
opportunity, with an estimated total value of $15 million if all options
are exercised.
"ATK has pioneered significant advances in projectile technology and
has incorporated these improvements into the rounds it will provide to
DHS," said Mark DeYoung, President, ATK Ammunition Systems Group. "This
ammunition performs extremely well against a variety of barriers."
ATK is a $3.4 billion advanced weapon and space systems company
employing approximately 15,000 people in 22 states. News and information
can be found on the Internet at http://www.atk.com .
Notice how MUCH ammo ICE is getting and the types. Also notice how little the Coast Guard is getting. Like I said, that's ALOT of ammo going to DHS and ICE.
Can you say tactical ammo that penetrates cars, trucks and other barriers? I may have to re-evaluate my .45 RA45T Ranger rounds against this 'Zombie Hoard' that DHS is prepping for.
http://www.winchester.com/Products/le/handgun-ammunition/ranger/t-series/Pages/RA45T.aspx
Cali chronic
Well-Known Member
I was in Best Buy Saturday and asked a Bio student the same thing. He was shocked and alarmed.
Doer
Well-Known Member
The entire story is peacenik pandering, imo. Who cares? Hollow points are not even understood, as the desireable round for the Homeland.
JustAnotherHead
New Member
The other 1% will go into American citizens. No big deal.
Doer
Well-Known Member
Big leap. American citizens are being protected from the ruthless idiots regardless of their citizenship. Most DHS active types will try to expend around 10,000 training rounds a year. That's what we want. Dead eyes.