Why God?... Why?

FireOwl said:

Some make much more sense than others, as some people think some pretty hairbrained stuff, but within the bounds of reason, no one person's beliefs are any more or less valid than anyone else's.

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'The bound of reason' creates a fairly narrow criteria, which excludes dogmatic faith and religion.

People laughed at the Raelians for believing aliens were coming to take them to the afterlife.

Yet their belief system was no more unreasonable than Christianity, Islam, Hindu, and any other religion.

If there is a god... he has nothing to do with a person passing away, or war, or violence, or crime, or greed. IF god as we generally believe him to be is real, he lets us do what we need to do, and deals with us later.

morgentaler said:

Why?

I'll be waiting right here for a good answer.

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if u went to church and read the bible u would kno. just sayin the one that believe should kno.

ima strong believer so i kno and im not a paster so i wont preach

whiterhyno420 said:

if u went to church and read the bible u would kno. just sayin the one that believe should kno.

ima strong believer so i kno and im not a paster so i wont preach

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I have read your bible, and I have been to churches of several different faiths.

You already did preach, with your original statement.

Your response only shows that you don't have a good reason for why. You've fallen back on "Because the bible says so."

Try again.

The book is true because the book says so.....

jfgordon1 said:

Thanks guys.. i appreciate it.

However, now that i think about it.. i shouldn't have started this thread. I'm not trying to get sympathy. I was trying to start a discussion about "why bad things happen" if there is a god (i'm an atheist/agnostic). This was a bad way going about it...

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This question is the hardest to answer to young children in my experience, as they have a lot of difficulty understanding the scope of things in a larger picture, and often lack the language in order to understand in the first place. IMO, bad things happen because this world is not heaven. The world is still a battlezone for souls, in a fight between good and evil, yin and yang, or whatever natural balance you may/may not believe in. I'm a believer in the afterlife, that we all have a soul, and there is more to life than our simplisitic animalian existence. Asking me for proof of this is ridiculous, and precisely why God made BELIEF a part of faith in the first place. If it was provable through means of science or other methods, what would be the point of it?


Faith

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For other uses, see Faith (disambiguation).
Faith is the confident belief or trust in the truth or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.[1][2] The word "faith" can refer to a religion itself or to religion in general. As with "trust", faith involves a concept of future events or outcomes, and is used conversely for a belief "not resting on logical proof or material evidence."[3][4] Informal usage of the word "faith" can be quite broad, and may be used in place of "trust" or "belief."
Faith is often used in a religious context, as in theology, where it almost universally refers to a trusting belief in a transcendent reality, or else in a Supreme Being and/or this being's role in the order of transcendent, spiritual things.
Faith is in general the persuasion of the mind that a certain statement is true.[5] It is the belief and the assent of the mind to the truth of what is declared by another, based on his or her authority and truthfulness.[6]

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IMO, faith is absolutely essential when it comes to matters of heaven/hell. The world will try to convince you through things like what happened to your friend that there is no God. DO NOT fall into this trap! I can't shrink the cosmos, the laws of physics, nature or history, or God's consciousness, and don't even want to try, but believe me, your friend is on God's side up there kicking ass and taking names against the evil in/out of this world now. Who knows? All I know is, don't ever try to second guess the man upstairs. With such a beautiful world, intelligent beings, and the sheer astronomical impossibility of the chance of life occuring the way it did, the evidence is already before you. Your friend is not dead! Your friend lives on in your heart, mind, soul, and in a different state of being. Be at peace my friend, and I am very sorry for your loss.

Mcgician said:

This question is the hardest to answer to young children in my experience, as they have a lot of difficulty understanding the scope of things in a larger picture, and often lack the language in order to understand in the first place. IMO, bad things happen because this world is not heaven. The world is still a battlezone for souls, in a fight between good and evil, yin and yang, or whatever natural balance you may/may not believe in. I'm a believer in the afterlife, that we all have a soul, and there is more to life than our simplisitic animalian existence. Asking me for proof of this is ridiculous, and precisely why God made BELIEF a part of faith in the first place. If it was provable through means of science or other methods, what would be the point of it?

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If the world is a battleground for souls, then the point of proof would be obvious. If your god really loved humanity, then he would provide proof, so more people would know which side to take. By not doing so, he is condemning them to eternal torture, or whatever bullshit your book says happens to unbelievers, when he could have saved them by simply showing a sign. He used to do that kind of thing regularly, according to your book. Why not now?

To the OP. Sorry for your loss. It is unfortunate that shit like this happens, but that is the nature of the universe. Random as fuck, imperfect and chaotic. One day we might have the technology to overcome death, but we need to drop all the superstition and hate first, and focus on advancing ourselves as a species.

Nocturn3 said:

If the world is a battleground for souls, then the point of proof would be obvious. If your god really loved humanity, then he would provide proof, so more people would know which side to take. By not doing so, he is condemning them to eternal torture, or whatever bullshit your book says happens to unbelievers, when he could have saved them by simply showing a sign. He used to do that kind of thing regularly, according to your book. Why not now?

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Miracles still happen. Perhaps it's your unbelief that they are that keeps you from seeing them? Just a thought.


As far as proof, it's all around me, like I mentioned in my previous post.

What do you consider a miracle?

Some people consider it a miracle when a person with diagnosed cancer heals naturally. But the body deals with cancer cells every day, and manages to successfully get rid of them. Statistically, you can expect some people to be ravaged by cancer at a faster rate than others while some will have a delayed but strong immune response that is finally able to overcome the cellular defect.

I've seen it called a miracle when a person survives a horrific plane crash where many people die. I remember one instance where a survivor being interviewed on the news stated that god had heard their prayers and spared them because he had a plan. In the background people were still looking through the wreckage for body parts. Is it a miracle that the interviewee survived? What about the other people who were killed that prayed to survive?

Why is there no recorded instance of an amputee miraculously regenerating a severed limb? If we hear anecdotal evidence of "God cured my cancer/arthritis/homosexuality", which are all internally manifesting symptoms, where are the anecdotes for limb or eye regeneration?

Surely these types of miracles are not beyond the capabilities of the biblical god?

A miracle is being out of rolling papers and then finding a pack in a drawer after a 20 minute search. You open it in anticipation, but the pack is empty. After a small hissy fit that follows the letdown, you go to throw that blasphemous pack away, and then you notice one last paper tucked behind the cardboard.

sad to hear it man, but i like to think they go to a nicer place.
iv lost good friends and i like to think they are still looking down on us..
my thoughts go out to everyone who has lost someone, but as they say
its all part of the plan.

Heh.... sure it is.

amore said:

but as they say
its all part of the plan.

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CrackerJax said:

Heh.... sure it is.

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I'm getting stoned... i'm starting to like this "plan"

All are welcome.... step into the light.

I wish he'd come back and list some miracles.
Every time I've had someone claim that miracles are real, I ask for good examples and they disappear.
Hey, is that a miracle?

morgentaler said:

I wish he'd come back and list some miracles.
Every time I've had someone claim that miracles are real, I ask for good examples and they disappear.
Hey, is that a miracle?

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listen here motherfucker(no offense haha)

i was raised with a very(kinda) religious family. i was taken to church every sunday since i can remember! a baby probaby
it sucked so much and it still kinda does...
but i have never doubted the existence of god.
Why?
its simply.
lets go back to science...
for a planet, or anything living in general(the universe) everything MUST be 100% PERFECT for it to exist. kinda like a recipe. now what are the chances that the whole universe had the exact ingredients and the exact amount to create all these planets?

there is a god.

sorry if it didn't make sense. im pretty damn high. and this spliff is killin me

think about it thoe...

Nocturn3 said:

If the world is a battleground for souls, then the point of proof would be obvious.

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And would render the need for faith utterly pointless. You don't seem to understand it's importance in the equation here. Also, if proving God's existence were merely as simple as a math equation, faith would have nothing to do with it either. IMO, the evidence is there. You just need to know how to look for it.

Nocturn3 said:

If your god really loved humanity, then he would provide proof, so more people would know which side to take. By not doing so, he is condemning them to eternal torture, or whatever bullshit your book says happens to unbelievers, when he could have saved them by simply showing a sign. He used to do that kind of thing regularly, according to your book. Why not now?

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How can you be so sure it doesn't? Hell, if you watch enough Oprah or even Dr. Phil, even they have stories told that defy belief, and in any other circumstance, would equate with a modern day miracle.

i was raised with a very(kinda) religious family. i was taken to church every sunday since i can remember! a baby probaby
it sucked so much and it still kinda does...
but i have never doubted the existence of god.
Why?
there is a god.

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You show that you have been indoctrinated from early childhood, but that doesn't prove the existence of god.

its simply.
lets go back to science...
for a planet, or anything living in general(the universe) everything MUST be 100% PERFECT for it to exist. kinda like a recipe.

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100% perfect? For anything living?
Wow, that's absolutely ridiculous.
Because that statement is so all-encompassingly ludicrous if taken at face value, I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that you mean it only in the perspective of the first living cell occuring in the universe needing to be in a state that was perfect for it.
Except it's quite possible it wasn't.
The first living organism may have be wiped out of existence before it even had time to reproduce, because the state of the environment was such that the molecules could combine, but not not be sustained.

I suggest you read the chapter on the evolution of stable (non-living) molecules in The Selfish Gene. People tend to think of evolution only in the frame of biology, but it's more than that.

What is your definition of "perfect" for life. That's not a scientific term. Twenty years ago people would have been shocked to see the kind of bacterial life living in the heat of underwater volcanic vents. It was thought that it was impossible for life to exist in those extremes.

You don't need perfection for life. All you need is organic chemistry and probability.

now what are the chances that the whole universe had the exact ingredients and the exact amount to create all these planets?

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Oh and to answer your question, the chances are 100%. You should never take odds on an event that has already taken place.

Hauvert said:

listen here motherfucker(no offense haha)
sorry if it didn't make sense. im pretty damn high. and this spliff is killin me
think about it thoe...

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Rule #37. Don't post on the internet while high. The LOLcats are watching.

morgentaler said:

You show that you have been indoctrinated from early childhood, but that doesn't prove the existence of god.





100% perfect? For anything living?
Wow, that's absolutely ridiculous.
Because that statement is so all-encompassingly ludicrous if taken at face value, I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that you mean it only in the perspective of the first living cell occuring in the universe needing to be in a state that was perfect for it.
Except it's quite possible it wasn't.
The first living organism may have be wiped out of existence before it even had time to reproduce, because the state of the environment was such that the molecules could combine, but not not be sustained.

I suggest you read the chapter on the evolution of stable (non-living) molecules in The Selfish Gene. People tend to think of evolution only in the frame of biology, but it's more than that.

What is your definition of "perfect" for life. That's not a scientific term. Twenty years ago people would have been shocked to see the kind of bacterial life living in the heat of underwater volcanic vents. It was thought that it was impossible for life to exist in those extremes.

You don't need perfection for life. All you need is organic chemistry and probability.






Oh and to answer your question, the chances are 100%. You should never take odds on an event that has already taken place.




Rule #37. Don't post on the internet while high. The LOLcats are watching.

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ahhh i don't really give ah fawk
i just believe. i could be wrong but i believe i'm right...not about all that bs i made up while high haha just in the existence of god.

you kinda got what i was saying...
life itself is pretty damn amazing.
how it works.

Mcgician said:

And would render the need for faith utterly pointless. You don't seem to understand it's importance in the equation here. Also, if proving God's existence were merely as simple as a math equation, faith would have nothing to do with it either. IMO, the evidence is there. You just need to know how to look for it.

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Until someone actually presents some evidence though, there is no proof for his existence. It's really that simple.

How can you be so sure it doesn't? Hell, if you watch enough Oprah or even Dr. Phil, even they have stories told that defy belief, and in any other circumstance, would equate with a modern day miracle.

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Well, of course they have stories that defy belief... because those shows are just ridiculous daytime entertainment for people who don't want to think.

Do you really expect that if they have a guest that says "I saw angels flying Uncle Sticky up to heaven" that Oprah is really going to send researchers out to investigate?

No. She'll just put them on TV and tell the audience how amazing it is that Jesus/God/whatever touches people differently.

The viewers want Oprah and Dr. Phil to think for them. Unfortunately for the viewers that plane doesn't have a pilot.

So far you've posted twice about miracles without actually presenting any, let alone proof of their miraculous nature.

Also, anecdotes do not constitute evidence. Saying "I jumped off my house and didn't die." is a personal anecdote. Not testable, and does not meat the criteria for supernatural intervention.
Let's see documentation and proof of a bona fide miracle.