Why I don't believe in god

Doer

Doer

Well-Known Member
All right then. If we don't know anything at birth, no Claims to regard as unknowable, no -Theism to reject on merit, we can neither be one or the other, can we? Nope, we are born as Self, only. All the rest is laid on us. And we will die as Self only.

To me it's what one does with Self.

Or does one reject even that along with the -tics and -isms. Throw out the baby with the bathwater. Who can still Mr. Mind and see the rest of Self? How do we even learn the techniques for that? The strict Objectivist may say there is nothing beyond the mind cloud. I have sure knowledge there is.
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Atheism is the default when you are born, as it simply means without a belief in a god.

Just like if you are born to two parents who are white, you will be white because white is the default color for your skin to be. You're not rejecting being black, are you?
 
Zaehet Strife

Zaehet Strife

Well-Known Member
This is elementary philosophical thinking, i don't understand why others fail to understand the concept of not having any beliefs when you are born. The result of this is Atheism- no belief in the existence of god or gods.

Atheism does not mean we must reject anything, especially as we are born we do not have the mental capacity to reject any thought or idea, as our thoughts grow with age and experience.
 
afrawfraw

afrawfraw

Well-Known Member
*COUGH* KAFAIL *COUGH* DOER KAFAILED *COUGH*

Just kiddin'. Your logistic parameters have just been altered in such a way that your reasoning can never reach this conclusion: Atheist=Blank hard drive

It doesn't take an Apple IIe to ....
 
kpmarine

kpmarine

Well-Known Member
goodvibes420 said:
To the dinosaur question, it is not even a known fact when dinosaurs existed. Some scientists believe they existed around the same time as humans and if you believe that then they were created for our enjoyment along with every other aniaml on the planet. he created this world for us and everything on it was created for us to expierience and view. The good as well as the bad.
Click to expand...
There is a 50 million+ gap between dinosaurs and humans. Who are these scientists?
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
If belief in god then
Theist (with belief in god)
or else
Atheist (without belief in god)

The circumstances do not make any difference, if not theism, then atheism.


This is why we always stress that knowing someone is atheist tells you only one specific thing, they are without belief in a deity. It does not tell you why, it does not indicate other beliefs, it simply acknowledges the lack of belief, ANYTIME that belief isn't there.

It's confusing and absurd to think that a baby is an atheist when he doesn't even have cognitive function yet, which reveals the confusing and absurd nature of the word. This baby also does not believe in evolution, germ theory, or Santa, yet we do not have a word that accuses them of lacking the belief. Can you think of any other word that indicates the lack of a belief? This only occurs when the discipline seeks to place the burden of proof on the non-believer. It is the result of grasping at straws due to an asinine position. When you can not provide justification, support or defense of your belief, one recourse is to attack anything that is not your belief. This is hard to do with atheism unless you confine it's definition to those who provide a counter-claim.
 
kpmarine

kpmarine

Well-Known Member
tmt1958 said:
I can understand why some people don't believe in God. It's the way they taught or the environment they were exposed to. Some things may have left a bad taste or seem confusing. I will try to answer some of the questions I see because I had a time in my life where I doubted God existed. I was in my late teens back then. As I grew older and studied and researched along the way, I found that God is indeed real. I have had too many prayers answered and I have seen miracles happen. That's how I know He is real. We are genetically engineered to connect spiritually with God but He will only come into our life if we ask Him. The bible stands for : basic instruction before leaving earth. I didn't understand most of the bible until I started studying it and listening to others talk about it. It is a book full of lessons, instructions, songs, poetry and history. It is meant to teach us the path to living our best life. A religion is not the same as the the RELATIONSHIP between us and God. A wonderful book to read is "In Defense of Faith" by David Brog. It is not a religious book at all. The book talks about what the Judeo-Christian culture has brought to the world. Very interesting. Even the American atheist has beliefs that came from this culture. Did you know that there was an 11th Commandment? Yep. Jesus said, "Love one another as I have loved you". The more we aspire to God's way, the better our lives get. I would say it is supernatural how it works. When Haiti had the big earthquake, the very first decent camp with food and a way to clean up and a place to sleep was a church. They went right to work getting things in order. If we live for the glory of God, He will give us more than we dreamed of. I am not talking about religious acts, but about having a heart with love in it to where we value other human life. You know how germs cannot be seen but we know they are there? Well, God is way bigger than what we can see but He is there. God Bless you all.
Click to expand...
Would you please explain how this in any way proves god exists?
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
tmt1958 said:
I can understand why some people don't believe in God. It's the way they taught or the environment they were exposed to. Some things may have left a bad taste or seem confusing. I will try to answer some of the questions I see because I had a time in my life where I doubted God existed. I was in my late teens back then. As I grew older and studied and researched along the way, I found that God is indeed real. I have had too many prayers answered and I have seen miracles happen. That's how I know He is real. We are genetically engineered to connect spiritually with God but He will only come into our life if we ask Him. The bible stands for : basic instruction before leaving earth. I didn't understand most of the bible until I started studying it and listening to others talk about it. It is a book full of lessons, instructions, songs, poetry and history. It is meant to teach us the path to living our best life. A religion is not the same as the the RELATIONSHIP between us and God. A wonderful book to read is "In Defense of Faith" by David Brog. It is not a religious book at all. The book talks about what the Judeo-Christian culture has brought to the world. Very interesting. Even the American atheist has beliefs that came from this culture. Did you know that there was an 11th Commandment? Yep. Jesus said, "Love one another as I have loved you". The more we aspire to God's way, the better our lives get. I would say it is supernatural how it works. When Haiti had the big earthquake, the very first decent camp with food and a way to clean up and a place to sleep was a church. They went right to work getting things in order. If we live for the glory of God, He will give us more than we dreamed of. I am not talking about religious acts, but about having a heart with love in it to where we value other human life. You know how germs cannot be seen but we know they are there? Well, God is way bigger than what we can see but He is there. God Bless you all.
Click to expand...
With you very first post, your words effectively remove you from intelligent conversation.
 
drive

drive

Active Member
A baby knows only its parents and family. It developes a relationship with those that nurture its developement. our parents are our early models for God
 
mindphuk

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
Doer said:
Oh, yes, I get that, but I guess we discuss a fine point. I'm saying agnostic. We are born agnostic. We do not yet know of any of these so called truth values, so we are yet unable to reject them as an a-theist might certainly reject them on good grounds. But, not at birth.

Agnosticism is the view that the truth values of certain claims—especially claims about the existence or non-existence of any deity, but also other religious and metaphysical claims—are unknown or unknowable.[
Click to expand...
People are not agnostic. Agnostic is not a conditional state. Agnostic is a position on a particular subject. An infant can no more be an agnostic on the idea of god than a fish. However, fish are atheists as far as we know. How can an infant decide that the truth-value of anything?

Atheism is a condition of not being a theist. Atheism doesn't even exist without theism. So yes, the natural state of all things, including children, is atheistic.
 
st0wandgrow

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
goodvibes420 said:
The question who created the creator is answered as follows

For you to believe in a creator you must believe he has been around forever. Eternity is a hard thing to imagine but to understand religion you must realize that for a god to exist it must be this way. If you believe something cant come from nothing and a god couldnt always be around then how to you explain the universe. Has the universe just always been around or what came before that? to me it makes more sense believing an all powerful creator has existed for ever than to believe a universe has.

To the dinosaur question, it is not even a known fact when dinosaurs existed. Some scientists believe they existed around the same time as humans and if you believe that then they were created for our enjoyment along with every other aniaml on the planet. he created this world for us and everything on it was created for us to expierience and view. The good as well as the bad.
Click to expand...
That is a very dangerous perspective, imo.

I try to tolerate religion, but viewpoints such as yours cause me concern and make it difficult for me to respect your beliefs. To think that we can just burn the planet, and consume all of it's bounty because some book about an imaginary friend for adults told you so is breathtakingly stupid, and irresponsible.
 
Doer

Doer

Well-Known Member
mindphuk said:
People are not agnostic. Agnostic is not a conditional state. Agnostic is a position on a particular subject. An infant can no more be an agnostic on the idea of god than a fish. However, fish are atheists as far as we know. How can an infant decide that the truth-value of anything?

Atheism is a condition of not being a theist. Atheism doesn't even exist without theism. So yes, the natural state of all things, including children, is atheistic.
Click to expand...
OK, that's right. Both, I see now, need cognition. To hold either view takes a choice. So, born without cognition and the without the nattering mind cloud, we are Self. When we gain the cloud we are distracted from Self, but can operatemuch better in the physical space.

To me religion is the ill formed and poorly executed plan to seek more knowledge of Self. But, it has served in a somewhat mediocre way and has been with us throughout.
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
Doer said:
To me religion is the ill formed and poorly executed plan to seek more knowledge of Self. But, it has served in a somewhat mediocre way and has been with us throughout.
Click to expand...
We had to crawl with religion, now let us walk with science. The answers provided can only be as sound as the process.
 
bombasticson

bombasticson

Active Member
st0wandgrow said:
I grew up believing in god. It was something that I took for granted, and never questioned. At some point during my teenage years I began questioning this position. I honestly don't recall a single event, or person that changed my mind, but it started to set my bullshit-meter off quite often.

Fast forward to today .... at the age of 37 I still maintain that there is no such thing as a god. The weird thing is, I've never really examined WHY I feel this way. Reading through this section of RIU has kind of challenged me to engage myself, and really pin down my thinking on this.

There is evil so there would have to be good.. Have fun in hell

Here is why I don't believe in a god:

1) Dinosaurs. If a god is behind this all, and he made us in his likeness (I'm flattered), then why did he fuck around for millions of years with dinosaurs and the like? Did he create them, only to kill them and let them marinate under ground for millions of years so we would stumble upon them and have fuel for our cars?

2) If there *is* a creator, then who created the creator? And who created the creator of the creator? How far back does this creator family tree go?

3) Talking snakes and magic apples. The bible is filled with ridiculous claims such as these. Why would god impress people with his magic tricks back then, and give us nothing to believe in now? My take is that people had no idea what lighting, thunder, rain, etc was 2000 years ago, and a man living in the clouds was all they could come up with to answer this.

4) Religion. There are more flavors of religion than there are Ben and Jerry's ice cream. If there is a god, why are there so many different versions?

5) Science. Science has given us some answers, and will continue to fill in the holes. I don't know if we have the capacity to ever truly know where we came from, and how it all started, but science has at least connected some dots for us. Religion, not so much.

These points obviously don't touch on everything that shapes my belief (or lack there of), but they account for a good deal of why I think the way I do when it comes to god and religion.

What points can you detail that help shape the way you feel about this?
Click to expand...
There is evil so there would have to be good.. Have fun in hell
 
Doer

Doer

Well-Known Member
Heisenberg said:
We had to crawl with religion, now let us walk with science. The answers provided can only be as sound as the process.
Click to expand...
How true, and yet some times, even with strong legs of science, we all must still be able to crawl, if desirable or individually necessary. I know you Are Not among those that seem to advocate we cut the knees of everyone, to serve the Rightness of a few.

No crawling! Stand for Science in Trust. It is easy to imagine, because as a civilization, we fight against that.

It's the power of the mob that is the reason for reason. Reason must preserve our birhright and not make it a bad thing, a thing to be laughed at by scornful children in Brown Shirts. Sometime the ability to crawl can save us from ruin. And save us from enslavement.

Most do not foresee this. But, like all the other secular -isms we've fought and died over, recently, and now Islamic sectarian-ism, I know where I stand against it. I know that it is an actual plan in action. A cult is a subversive cadre against the prevailing social order.
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Sure, some of the methods are comparably blunt to get the message across these days, but what would have changed if the tactics hadn't changed? At the beginning of the scientific revolution, you would literally be executed for saying anything against the church. For hundreds of years, this was the standard. Fast forward to today, I think we have the perfect recipe for considerable change. We have the freedom to say whatever we want, we have the ability to test essentially any reasonable claim, and we have the ability to send information globally within minutes.

Now, it sounds like what you're suggesting [Doer] is that today's nonbelievers should just be content with their nonbelief and that should be the end of it, you feel like people like Heis and mp are forcing their beliefs on the religious population by expressing their opinions. Is that the case, do you feel like that?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top