Why I'm not a Republican ...

ViRedd said:

Well, let's get this straight: Weither Obama is "trying" or not, his policies WILL lead to a totalitarian state.

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Definitions of totalitarianism on the Web:

• <LI sb_id="ms__id393">dictatorship: a form of government in which the ruler is an absolute dictator (not restricted by a constitution or laws or opposition etc.)
• absolutism: the principle of complete and unrestricted power in government
  wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Either your defination of totalitarianism is totally off or you are an alarmist tin foil hat nut.


No Constitution, no opposition, wtf. Now your saying that Obama is going to do away with elections, the republican or any party for that matter, and not constitution or legislature? Common, are you serious? Bush walked all over the consititution, but even then were we looking a a dictatorship? Hell no, and if you think that is where this is going you a complete nutter.

Your slippery slope arguements are laughable.

ViRedd said:

Well, let's get this straight: Wether Obama is "trying" or not, his policies WILL lead to a totalitarian state. Look at what he's done so far in the name of "crisis." He's taken over the banks, auto companies, insurance companies ... and he's headed into the medical business as well. He's spent TRILLIONS of borrowed and printed money that can only be paid back by future generations. This is debt that represents labor not yet expended. In other words, he is enslaving economically, the children of the future.

And you may think that using the term "fascist" is being alarmist, but the very definition of a fascist economic system is ... the illusion of private ownership with strict, dictatorial control by government. Isn't that exactly what we are evolving into under the Obama administration?

Not all fascists were Nazis ... nor were all fascists racists as Hitler was. Mussolini was a very effective fascist dictator and well thought of by Churchill and FDR prior to WWII. President Wilson was a fascist. Franklin Roosevelt was a fascist ... and a racist as well. And I stand by my conviction that Obama, willingly or not, is a fascist.

Honestly, olosto ... before you go off on guys like me and Glenn Beck, with all due respect, man ... read some history.

Here's another book recommendation ... by a brilliant author:

http://www.amazon.com/Liberty-Tyranny-Conservative-Mark-Levin/dp/1416562850#

Vi

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Websters dictionary:
http://mw1.m-w.com/dictionary/fascist
fascist

One entry found.




Main Entry: fas·cism Pronunciation: \&#712;fa-&#716;shi-z&#601;m also &#712;fa-&#716;si-\ Function: noun Etymology: Italian fascismo, from fascio bundle, fasces, group, from Latin fascis bundle & fasces fasces Date: 1921 1often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition2: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control <early instances of army fascism and brutality — J. W. Aldridge>
— fas·cist \-shist also -sist\ noun or adjective often capitalized
— fas·cis·tic \fa-&#712;shis-tik also -&#712;sis-\ adjective often capitalized
— fas·cis·ti·cal·ly \-ti-k(&#601l&#275;\ adverb often capitalized





Centralized is key here. Also forceable suppression of opposition. This is why this word has no place or "liberal fascism". That does not properly define his objectives and add alot of negitive connotations because fascism is a centralized govenrment that stamps out the opposition. That means an end the democratic way.

This is the same ploy being used on Fox currently, trying to somehow get people to call it "liberal fascism". It disgusting, it does not reflect Obama's agenda. Are we talking about ending elections and changing to a single govenrment that forcefully denies people from voting or empoering another political party, its total bullshit propaganda.

2 points i made, which I really don't feel like re-typing, were that...


A. We live in a fascist country. Not a socialist one. I'm sorry if some people aren't ready to hear it...but ask me why/how, and I'll substantiate

Anddd....

B. Ya know, it's obvious that many of you just aren't getting it. Each election year, we get to chose "our side"...dem or repub. Each one, in OUR narrow littles minds, represents "us." Each is a puppet for the elitists though, and each vowes for totalitarianism. We're given the ILLUSION of choice. LOOK how many lies obama has spewed in 100 days. this is some watergate shit and people should be outraged. his policies are the same as bush's...and people either make excuses for his actions or follow him regardless. We desperately need a revolution, and a forceful one @ that. I'm convinced that this is the ONLY WAY to bring about real change. the political machine is too strong and the military industrial complex is in full-effect.


Oh and guess what non-believers, who don't understand the federal reserve/monetary system in this country- the "bailouts" were designed to fail, and they ARE failing. GM has announced it'll close 2,000 or more dealerships by the end of 2009. We're beginning to experience the "bust" part of the boom/bust cycle, which is the very foundation on which our money system operates. Obama is an economist- he very WELL knows it wouldn't work...he's cleverly deceitful, just as every politician has been in recent decades.


You, of all people Vi, to post about "repub this and dem that"...i dont get it. Why do u feed into this false paradigm @ all??

"You, of all people Vi, to post about "repub this and dem that"...i dont get it. Why do u feed into this false paradigm @ all??"

I'm saying the same thing you are. The only difference between a statist Democrat and a statist Republican is a matter of degree.

Vi

olosto said:

Centralizedis key here. Also forceable suppression of opposition. This is why this word has no place or "liberal fascism". That does not properly define his objectives and add alot of negitive connotations because fascism is a centralized govenrment that stamps out the opposition. That means an end the democratic way.

This is the same ploy being used on Fox currently, trying to somehow get people to call it "liberal fascism". It disgusting, it does not reflect Obama's agenda. Are we talking about ending elections and changing to a single govenrment that forcefully denies people from voting or empoering another political party, its total bullshit propaganda.

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You don't think that there is a concentrated effort to make the states irrelevant? Obama has threatened to take back a portion of California's bailout money if the legislature decides to lay off government union members.

You don't think there is forceable suppression of the opposition? What about the banking CEOs who tried to refuse the bailout money? They were threatened with very lengthy audits unless they complied.

You don't think that a government that changes private contracts in order to place unions ahead of investors in payouts during bankruptcy is fascistic?


Have you heard of A.C.O.R.N ... and their voter fraud? They are being investigated by the atty gens of 14 states at this point. Yes, they influenced elections and tilted the table in favor of one party ... the Dems. Not only that, but they have been written in for two billion of the stimulus money as a payback for their support of Obama in the election.

Is government firings of private business executives fascism?

Is government dictating what type of cars are to be built, what type of loans are to be made ... and how much managers can make, fascism? You're damned right it is. The fact that you don't recognize fascism when its hitting you right in the face doesn't make it not so.

And yes, as you point out, we have a constitution. The question is, is the Obama administration paying any attention to it?


Oh yeah, one more thing ... If you don't like the phrase "liberal fascism," try Progressive fascism.

Vi

ViRedd said:

Look at what he's done so far in the name of "crisis." He's taken over the banks, auto companies, insurance companies ... and he's headed into the medical business as well. He's spent TRILLIONS of borrowed and printed money that can only be paid back by future generations. This is debt that represents labor not yet expended. In other words, he is enslaving economically, the children of the future.http://

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I agree. I think people are starting to realize what a disaster this president is. unfortunatly the damage is done and our children will be paying for it.

jamesrock said:

I agree. I think people are starting to realize what a disaster this president is. unfortunatly the damage is done and our children will be paying for it.

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All we can do is to try to open as many eyes as possible before its too late.

Honesty, jamesrock ... sometimes I wonder what the German civilians thought that horrible smell was that was wafting through their towns. Did any of them ask any questions at all, or did they just raise their arm in the one-arm salute as their messiah passed through in his Mercedes convertable, then looked the other way?

Vi

ViRedd said:

"You, of all people Vi, to post about "repub this and dem that"...i dont get it. Why do u feed into this false paradigm @ all??"

I'm saying the same thing you are. The only difference between a statist Democrat and a statist Republican is a matter of degree.

Vi

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Oh, I apologize Vi. I musta taken this outta context or percieved it the wrong way. I was gonna SAY, what happened? lol

I think some ppl in this thread HAVE taken it that way tho, cuz the repub/dem "war" is still goin on lol

ViRedd said:

You don't think that there is a concentrated effort to make the states irrelevant? Vi

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No, I don't in fact I see the opposite. Your bs about taking fed money back, Every president as far back as I remember have threatened to hold back money, its the only way the fed has power. An now for some reason because Obama is doing it he is tring to make one government, a totalatarian one at that?

For the millionth time I don't like everything Obama is doing but I think your waaay overboard.

ViRedd said:

Well, let's get this straight: Wether Obama is "trying" or not, his policies WILL lead to a totalitarian state. Look at what he's done so far in the name of "crisis." He's taken over the banks, auto companies, insurance companies ... and he's headed into the medical business as well. He's spent TRILLIONS of borrowed and printed money that can only be paid back by future generations. This is debt that represents labor not yet expended. In other words, he is enslaving economically, the children of the future.

And you may think that using the term "fascist" is being alarmist, but the very definition of a fascist economic system is ... the illusion of private ownership with strict, dictatorial control by government. Isn't that exactly what we are evolving into under the Obama administration?

Not all fascists were Nazis ... nor were all fascists racists as Hitler was. Mussolini was a very effective fascist dictator and well thought of by Churchill and FDR prior to WWII. President Wilson was a fascist. Franklin Roosevelt was a fascist ... and a racist as well. And I stand by my conviction that Obama, willingly or not, is a fascist.

Honestly, olosto ... before you go off on guys like me and Glenn Beck, with all due respect, man ... read some history.

Here's another book recommendation ... by a brilliant author:

http://www.amazon.com/Liberty-Tyranny-Conservative-Mark-Levin/dp/1416562850#

Vi

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Lol Vi,



I'll tell you what I'm sick of. I'm sick of people saying that we're all alarmists, and the facts before us aren't happening the way they really are! BS!! Substance of FACTS are the key to any debate. Just because a particular media-head doesn't put things into a nice, comfortable, feel-good box doesn't mean the facts or the message being conveyed isn't so. Btw, Glenn Beck, nor any of the of the popular "right wing wackjobs" am I beholden to. Trying to tie conservativism and conservatives SOLELY to people like Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Glenn Beck, and others is an overly simplistic means of distorting the conservative message, which is why the libs try so often to do it. Shoot the messenger, avoid the debate. Our country is sick of that shit, and the fact that Nancy Pelosi is getting her ass fried over "torture-gate" is evidence of that. Like the saying goes, "you can fool some people sometime, but you can't fool all the people all the time."

olosto said:

Every president as far back as I remember have threatened to hold back money, its the only way the fed has power.

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Name one.

Mcgician said:

Lol Vi,

I'll tell you what I'm sick of. I'm sick of people saying that we're all alarmists, and the facts before us aren't happening the way they really are! BS!! Substance of FACTS are the key to any debate. Just because a particular media-head doesn't put things into a nice, comfortable, feel-good box doesn't mean the facts or the message being conveyed isn't so. Btw, Glenn Beck, nor any of the of the popular "right wing wackjobs" am I beholden to. Trying to tie conservativism and conservatives SOLELY to people like Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Glenn Beck, and others is an overly simplistic means of distorting the conservative message, which is why the libs try so often to do it. Shoot the messenger, avoid the debate. Our country is sick of that shit, and the fact that Nancy Pelosi is getting her ass fried over "torture-gate" is evidence of that. Like the saying goes, "you can fool some people sometime, but you can't fool all the people all the time."

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LOL nothing lamer than proclaimed Ownage.. lol did you read my following posts where his definations are shown to be totally inconsistant with the documented definations.


You must be so right. The people see right thru Nancy Pelosi. You can't fool the mass population as a whole. Thats why Obama's ratings are still extremely high. No one is fooled by the extremeists, he is setting things right that Bush fucked up plain and simple. Believe what you wanna believe Tin Foil Hat Mafia, the majority of us know whats really going on..



Oh wait no, its just the guy that cites his claims and facts is crazy and the people that can only attack him and not actually provide citation for anything are right.... lol

Mcgician said:

Name one.

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Ok Bush. Its been threatened for years against states ratifying medical marijuana and other laws. This type of thing is common federal practice and the fact your ignorant of it says alot about your level of understanding of modern politics....

ViRedd said:

All we can do is to try to open as many eyes as possible before its too late.

Honesty, jamesrock ... sometimes I wonder what the German civilians thought that horrible smell was that was wafting through their towns. Did any of them ask any questions at all, or did they just raise their arm in the one-arm salute as their messiah passed through in his Mercedes convertable, then looked the other way?

Vi

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There you go again with your comparison of Obama to Hitler. You are officially a dogmatic anti-intellectual. I've pointed out this unfair comparison THREE times to you, but you won't listen.

And I know you'll call me a liberal Obama nut for pointing out your reliance on fallacy, but it's not the case. You keep saying 'fascism', but you only apply the term to democrats. Under your labeling of the term, Bush's constant disregard for what the people wanted was clearly fascism. His illegal war to pay vendetta and profit from our forced reliance on oil was fascism. His constant threats of terrorism and control by fear reek of fascism. So the American populus rejected his line of reasoning and now the neo-cons are defunct.

And now you will chime in saying that you don't like Bush and you're not a Republican and that there's a difference between a conservative and republican and that you're now a libertarian, and that labels are useless anyway, and that Glenn Beck speaks truth, etc, etc, etc...... Whatever dude! Quit being one-sided!

With the way you apply the term 'fascism', I can get every single president in Modern history to appear a fascist. What's your point? How is Obama different? He's trying to correct our situation by exercising control and regulation. If it works, then we'll continue moving in that direction. If not, America will vote him out. There's no conspiracy. If his policies don't work, then people will vote for someone else.

Maybe your guy Barr will get voted in. Who knows? With the anti-choice rhetoric your spit on a daily basis, I can't ever see why you support him or the libertarian party. With an ultimate emphasis on personal freedom, you'd think a fetus takes the back-seat.

jrh72582 said:

There you go again with your comparison of Obama to Hitler. You are officially a dogmatic anti-intellectual. I've pointed out this unfair comparison THREE times to you, but you won't listen.

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Agreed.


Saying Obama is facist is like saying Bush was a dictator.Sure paralels can loosely be drawn, but to say Bush was a a dictator because he did whatever the hell he wanted is just uneducated just like this Obama vs hitler and this fascism talk. Hell jamie from Mythbusters looks like a fucking walrus but that does not mean he IS a walrus!!!>!>!>!>??!?!?

olosto said:

LOL nothing lamer than proclaimed Ownage.. lol did you read my following posts where his definations are shown to be totally inconsistant with the documented definations.


You must be so right. The people see right thru Nancy Pelosi. You can't fool the mass population as a whole. Thats why Obama's ratings are still extremely high. No one is fooled by the extremeists, he is setting things right that Bush fucked up plain and simple. Believe what you wanna believe Tin Foil Hat Mafia, the majority of us know whats really going on..



Oh wait no, its just the guy that cites his claims and facts is crazy and the people that can only attack him and not actually provide citation for anything are right.... lol

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I rarely bust out the certificate of ownage, but since you basically called him out on his political integrity, I felt it was justified. As for ratings, I not much for them, as they hold little to no value in any form of debate when it comes to proving whether or not certain policies are detrimental or not to the country. Since you like to champion Obama administration for the amazing work they've done so far though, and seem to base your logic on opinion ratings, know this. FACT. No other president in history has seen a further decline in popularity since inauguration day in such a short time as Barack Obama. Sorry, but that's the truth. Deal with it. Keep on with your phrases like "Tin Foil Hat Mafia", and fingerpointing at the past at Bush if you want, but sooner or later, the majority of Americans WILL wake up to the fact that they've been duped, and that the promises of HOPE and CHANGE will amount to nothing more than a sizably reduced standard of living, and that the freedoms generations before them had fought so hard for are dangerously teetering on the brink of extinction.

olosto said:

Ok Bush. Its been threatened for years against states ratifying medical marijuana and other laws. This type of thing is common federal practice and the fact your ignorant of it says alot about your level of understanding of modern politics....

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Your understanding of the how the appropriating of funds is greatly mistaken. The President has NO PART in the the Appropriations Committee. He can only hope to sway the Senators in power of that particular committee to do the things he wishes. They've always been empty threats, until TARP money and bailout money came along. With a nearly filibuster-proof Senate, and a majority in the House, the type of threats the Obama administration is making to banks that try to refuse TARP money are hardly insignificant, run of the mill, requests. Add to that the fact the Obama administration's treasury department and financial advisors are the exact same people that drove the financial industry into the ground in the first place, and you begin to put 2 and 2 together. Oh, I must be a conspiracy theorist having said that. Pfftt....

I think the title of this thread was why I'm not a republican. So here's a few reasons I'm not: first, the republicans have always been known as the party of business, Monkey business included. That means they'd fuck a working man out of 50 cents if they could, I was always a worker, so fuck the republicans. Second, they are the party of wealth and anti-everything human. They are anti health care, they are anti social programs, they are anti-anti. They have always sat on the side of the wealthy. They are pro war, pro corporation, pro military expansion, and anti-pay raises for workers. They are so full of themselves that they can't concieve of ever being needy, at least not the kind of needy that pervades the working class. They have lied to the people so much they actually are starting to believe their bullshit. Conservatives are just republicans maxed out, pro individualism, anti socialism, let the needy get fucked because they are stealing from the rich, in essence, they are stealing from the poor, they have always been about this nefarious business, stealing from the poor. This is their mantra, fuck someone before they fuck you, the republican way. All you conservatives on this site actually believe the bullshit about individuality over social justice, what is mine is mine fuck you. This works fine if you have something worth keeping, unfortunately, a lot of the poor don't. You actually blame the poor for their condition after living a life of priveledge, at least a life of opportunity not offered to the poor. As the Brits would say, you are a bunch of wankers.

medicineman said:

I think the title of this thread was why I'm not a republican. So here's a few reasons I'm not: first, the republicans have always been known as the party of business, Monkey business included. That means they'd fuck a working man out of 50 cents if they could, I was always a worker, so fuck the republicans. Second, they are the party of wealth and anti-everything human. They are anti health care, they are anti social programs, they are anti-anti. They have always sat on the side of the wealthy. They are pro war, pro corporation, pro military expansion, and anti-pay raises for workers. They are so full of themselves that they can't concieve of ever being needy, at least not the kind of needy that pervades the working class. They have lied to the people so much they actually are starting to believe their bullshit. Conservatives are just republicans maxed out, pro individualism, anti socialism, let the needy get fucked because they are stealing from the rich, in essence, they are stealing from the poor, they have always been about this nefarious business, stealing from the poor. This is their mantra, fuck someone before they fuck you, the republican way. All you conservatives on this site actually believe the bullshit about individuality over social justice, what is mine is mine fuck you. This works fine if you have something worth keeping, unfortunately, a lot of the poor don't. You actually blame the poor for their condition after living a life of priveledge, at least a life of opportunity not offered to the poor. As the Brits would say, you are a bunch of wankers.

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Seriously, which Democratic propaganda playbook did you copy and paste that from?

medicineman, is it that HARD for u to let go of the false paradigm?


Why is it so very necessary for human beings to categorize others? It's psychologically imbedded in us to "pick sides", or "join a side" and defend it.

Guess it just has to do with the dominant social paradigm...a little social darwinism, if you will.

It's almost like a mob mentality...rationality flies out the window when people pick sides and can't defend themselves when questioned "why." So they categorize, label, and worse of all- generalize- "repubs are known for this, democrats are known for that."

just utter ridiculousness. Keep defending "your side, your team" and corruption will continue.

Said it once and I'll say it again- the most inhumane leaders in history realize that, by using their psychology against people, you can get people to fight amongst each other...isn't that the very reason why politics itself is such a touchy, controversial subject?

So keep arguing this irrelevant nonsense, it's all part of the plan

As far as I am concerned there should be no party affiliations. Dems do the same stupid shit as repubs and vice verse, in fact there really isn't that much difference. Each wants all the power and all the perks and all the money. I listen to the radio more than watch TV, TV maybe consumes 1 hour per week of my time, I read the paper once in a while, but they are pretty biased IMO. I read alot on the net, I try to get both sides. I have seen a whole lot of shit, been around the world. visited some real shit holes. The poor in this country live a life of luxury compared to people in other countries, we have the government tit out for anyone who wants to suckle. There is so much greed and hate and fuck your neighbor over attitudes it makes me wonder if it doesn't make the earth sick. Perhaps we are all somehow connected to each other and to our home of origin that the planet itself is falling apart. Who knows, Im pretty high, just smoked a whole bowl of my secret garden spice.

medicineman said:

I think the title of this thread was why I'm not a republican. So here's a few reasons I'm not: first, the republicans have always been known as the party of business, Monkey business included. That means they'd fuck a working man out of 50 cents if they could, I was always a worker, so fuck the republicans. Second, they are the party of wealth and anti-everything human. They are anti health care, they are anti social programs, they are anti-anti. They have always sat on the side of the wealthy. They are pro war, pro corporation, pro military expansion, and anti-pay raises for workers. They are so full of themselves that they can't concieve of ever being needy, at least not the kind of needy that pervades the working class. They have lied to the people so much they actually are starting to believe their bullshit. Conservatives are just republicans maxed out, pro individualism, anti socialism, let the needy get fucked because they are stealing from the rich, in essence, they are stealing from the poor, they have always been about this nefarious business, stealing from the poor. This is their mantra, fuck someone before they fuck you, the republican way. All you conservatives on this site actually believe the bullshit about individuality over social justice, what is mine is mine fuck you. This works fine if you have something worth keeping, unfortunately, a lot of the poor don't. You actually blame the poor for their condition after living a life of priveledge, at least a life of opportunity not offered to the poor. As the Brits would say, you are a bunch of wankers.

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Is this guy for real?????? Im an independent but its people like this that I just dont get. He is a perfect example why the two party system is not working.