Why is everyone so afraid of the word Socialism?

ink the world

ink the world

Well-Known Member
We already have Socialist programs in the USA, we have for a long time.

Social Security
Medicare
Medicaid
Werlfare
Unemployment
Public Schools
etc. etc.

Id be willing to bet that upwards of 90% of us Americans and/or our families have benefited from one or more of these programs.
If you want be a completely non-Socialist country I hope you have tons of loot. You ready to pay for Johnny and Susie to go to school?
You ready to risk being laid off w/ no unemployment benefits, no health insurance and lose your home?

Id hardly say we are headed towards outright Socialism, the people w/ all the $ wont allow that to happen.
 
timrichards

timrichards

Well-Known Member
ink the world said:
We already have Socialist programs in the USA, we have for a long time.

Social Security
Medicare
Medicaid
Werlfare
Unemployment
Public Schools
etc. etc.

Id be willing to bet that upwards of 90% of us Americans and/or our families have benefited from one or more of these programs.
If you want be a completely non-Socialist country I hope you have tons of loot. You ready to pay for Johnny and Susie to go to school?
You ready to risk being laid off w/ no unemployment benefits, no health insurance and lose your home?

Id hardly say we are headed towards outright Socialism, the people w/ all the $ wont allow that to happen.
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Let's not forget the biggest socialist program in this country....





 
xm177e2

xm177e2

Active Member
Socialism limits the individual's opportunity for personal success. Socialism caters to the underachiever and discriminates against the successful, its as simple as that. I find it funny that the only people I meet on a day to day basis who harbor socialist ideals are those who are uneducated, unsuccessful and have a general hatred (out of envy and spite) towards those who surpass them in success and fortune. Socialism is the poor man's government, it opresses those who strive for excellence and makes the "loser" top priority. I oppose socialized medicine.. ya know why? because I don't need it, because I can afford health insurance and I am plenty happy with the private practices and specialists of whose services I can utilize under my plan. Just because Joe Schmoe fucked up in life, didn't get an education, and has to clean urinals for a living doesn't mean those who chose the right path (the majority) should have to suffer for it. "Tax the rich!!"... because they aren't already carrying the weight of the entire nation's federal income tax on their shoulders or anything like that :rolleyes:.
 
what... huh?

what... huh?

Active Member
Too true...


A fairly governed society must have some socialist underpinnings which DO force progress. Public works, roads, etc. if left solely to us to get done, simply would not. I will say that for every socialist program in existence, there is a private industry that does it better... and worse. Private schools give better education, and FedEx gets it there quicker.

I will exempt military from that comparison... I don't know where the best killers/rescue teams come from.
 
hom36rown

hom36rown

Well-Known Member
xm177e2 said:
Socialism limits the individual's opportunity for personal success. Socialism caters to the underachiever and discriminates against the successful, its as simple as that. I find it funny that the only people I meet on a day to day basis who harbor socialist ideals are those who are uneducated, unsuccessful and have a general hatred (out of envy and spite) towards those who surpass them in success and fortune. Socialism is the poor man's government, it opresses those who strive for excellence and makes the "loser" top priority. I oppose socialized medicine.. ya know why? because I don't need it, because I can afford health insurance and I am plenty happy with the private practices and specialists of whose services I can utilize under my plan. Just because Joe Schmoe fucked up in life, didn't get an education, and has to clean urinals for a living doesn't mean those who chose the right path (the majority) should have to suffer for it. "Tax the rich!!"... because they aren't already carrying the weight of the entire nation's federal income tax on their shoulders or anything like that :rolleyes:.
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Why should you have to pay for other's kid's education? WHy should you have to pay to put a fire out at someone else's house? WHy should you have to pay for a library you don't use? Because it benefits the nation as a whole.
 
xm177e2

xm177e2

Active Member
hom36rown said:
Why should you have to pay for other's kid's education? WHy should you have to pay to put a fire out at someone else's house? WHy should you have to pay for a library you don't use? Because it benefits the nation as a whole.
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You make a valid point.. but what you are reffering to is NOT socialism. It IS our tax dollars being put to good use (as rare as that is these days). If you wanna consider this socialism then fine, but it is not socialism even in its lowest form. The services you describe are services that everyone in the US, rich or poor, benefit from. A billionaire is not gonna hire a private fire company to extinguish his mansion if need be. And even rich folks use the public library (gasp!) On the other hand, I strongly oppose government programs that cater to the underachiever at the expense of the successful, and that is what socialism is all about. If you can't afford to put food in your child's mouth or take them to the doctor when they are sick, then you better get off your lazy ass and do something about it. Do not rely on those who strived for success to support you just because you can't even achieve the bare minimum.
 
timrichards

timrichards

Well-Known Member
xm177e2 said:
You make a valid point.. but what you are reffering to is NOT socialism. It IS our tax dollars being put to good use (as rare as that is these days). If you wanna consider this socialism then fine, but it is not socialism even in its lowest form. The services you describe are services that everyone in the US, rich or poor, benefit from. A billionaire is not gonna hire a private fire company to extinguish his mansion if need be. And even rich folks use the public library (gasp!) On the other hand, I strongly oppose government programs that cater to the underachiever at the expense of the successful, and that is what socialism is all about. If you can't afford to put food in your child's mouth or take them to the doctor when they are sick, then you better get off your lazy ass and do something about it. Do not rely on those who strived for success to support you just because you can't even achieve the bare minimum.
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Yeah a single mother who needs government aid to take care of her autistic child needs to stop suckling the government teat, get off her ass and work harder.(preferably find a job that will allow her autistic child to come along)
 
xm177e2

xm177e2

Active Member
timrichards said:
Yeah a single mother who needs government aid to take care of her autistic child needs to stop suckling the government teat, get off her ass and work harder.(preferably find a job that will allow her autistic child to come along)
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So you take it to an extreme and play the "special needs child" card. I know a single father who has an autistic son. He is a doctor but is no longer working because of his health. He got custody of the kids after a divorce and is paying for a care taker for his autistic child. How bout the single mother with 4 healthy kids who sits on her ass smoking crack and watching Oprah?? should I really have to pay for her shortcomings as well? What you say isnt far from the truth. The single mother should at least attempt to find a suitable job that will provide her with enough money to manage her child. There are many employers out there who can provide daycare for a special needs child if neccessary.
 
SDSativa

SDSativa

Active Member
Whatever happened to personal responsibility? We need to be in control of our own actions. The great thing about capitalism and democracy, is that when you work hard, it pays off. People complain how expensive healthcare is. Think about the doctors. The doctors spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on education to become doctors. And also the time it takes them to become a doctor. Most people don't work that hard. And the fact that these people are saving our lifes. Or what about all of the new medicines and advances we come up with? The healthcare industry MUST produce profit to ensure we get the best care possible. It takes money to find new cures and advances. And when you look at what Medi-care and Medi-caid have done to our system it is sickening. Both programs were started by the government and both programs are BANKRUPT. Do we really want to move our country towards this?
 
xm177e2

xm177e2

Active Member
SDSativa said:
Whatever happened to personal responsibility? We need to be in control of our own actions. The great thing about capitalism and democracy, is that when you work hard, it pays off. People complain how expensive healthcare is. Think about the doctors. The doctors spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on education to become doctors. And also the time it takes them to become a doctor. Most people don't work that hard. And the fact that these people are saving our lifes. Or what about all of the new medicines and advances we come up with? The healthcare industry MUST produce profit to ensure we get the best care possible. It takes money to find new cures and advances. And when you look at what Medi-care and Medi-caid have done to our system it is sickening. Both programs were started by the government and both programs are BANKRUPT. Do we really want to move our country towards this?
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Amen :joint:
 
timrichards

timrichards

Well-Known Member
xm177e2 said:
So you take it to an extreme and play the "special needs child" card. I know a single father who has an autistic son. He is a doctor but is no longer working because of his health. He got custody of the kids after a divorce and is paying for a care taker for his autistic child. How bout the single mother with 4 healthy kids who sits on her ass smoking crack and watching Oprah?? should I really have to pay for her shortcomings as well? What you say isnt far from the truth. The single mother should at least attempt to find a suitable job that will provide her with enough money to manage her child. There are many employers out there who can provide daycare for a special needs child if neccessary.
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The "special needs" of this child go much further then daycare, but I didn't feel the need to go into details. The point I was trying to make is that there are situations where forms of welfare are necessary. Everyone is so quick to try and throw some of these programs away. If something is broken, fix it. Are people abusing these programs....probably. There definately needs to be some overhauling. I'm pretty sure last time I got a flat tire, I didn't throw my car away.


xm177e2 said:
There are many employers out there who can provide daycare for a special needs child if neccessary.
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Are there? Last I heard there weren't many employers that could even provide daycare for a "normal needs" child.
 
timrichards

timrichards

Well-Known Member
SDSativa said:
And when you look at what Medi-care and Medi-caid have done to our system it is sickening. Both programs were started by the government and both programs are BANKRUPT. Do we really want to move our country towards this?
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Oh, I didn't realize the complete solvency of the private sector.
 
SDSativa

SDSativa

Active Member
The private sector can and will do a lot more than the government. Anything the government tries to "fix" ends up in disaster. I bet you didn't know that this country was in a depression after the 1st world war. and guess what, with NO government intervention, was over in less than a year. But they won't teach you that in public schools because/" the american people are not capable of such feats, but only the government that so greatly protects them."Then we move into "the Great Depression". And while most of the world was in depression, we were the only ones to call it "the GREAT depression". Because we were the only ones who did anything about it. While the rest of the world recovered, we went deeper. If it were not for the 2nd world war, we would not be the superpower we are today. Only because of private industry, did we rise to the challenge and lift the world out of tyranny. It is the will of the people, and not the government, that will ignite the spark for freedom. Only when the government takes orders from the people, is when the people are truly free.
 
Operation 420

Operation 420

Well-Known Member
SDSativa said:
The private sector can and will do a lot more than the government. Anything the government tries to "fix" ends up in disaster. I bet you didn't know that this country was in a depression after the 1st world war. and guess what, with NO government intervention, was over in less than a year. But they won't teach you that in public schools because/" the american people are not capable of such feats, but only the government that so greatly protects them."Then we move into "the Great Depression". And while most of the world was in depression, we were the only ones to call it "the GREAT depression". Because we were the only ones who did anything about it. While the rest of the world recovered, we went deeper. If it were not for the 2nd world war, we would not be the superpower we are today. Only because of private industry, did we rise to the challenge and lift the world out of tyranny. It is the will of the people, and not the government, that will ignite the spark for freedom. Only when the government takes orders from the people, is when the people are truly free.
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WWII was caused by the "Elite". They purposely had a passenger liner named Athenia enter German waters, even after the Germans warned the passengers not to board the ship. It was all planned.

Don't get the central banks wars for wealth confused with us fighting for our freedom. We're fighting for their pocketbooks. The Central bank funded both sides of the war.
 
jfgordon1

jfgordon1

Well-Known Member
Operation 420 said:
WWII was caused by the "Elite". They purposely had a passenger liner named Athenia enter German waters, even after the Germans warned the passengers not to board the ship. It was all planned.

Don't get the central banks wars for wealth confused with us fighting for our freedom. We're fighting for their pocketbooks. The Central bank funded both sides of the war.
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Not to mention there was an article in New York Times ( i do believe) to not go on that ship...:roll:.

David (?) Rockefeller made $200 million off that war

EDIT: WWI not WWII. it was the Lusitania
 
Operation 420

Operation 420

Well-Known Member
SDSativa said:
Because it's not like we took out the most brutal dictator the world had seen in ww2
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The banks funded him and helped him become that "brutal dictator".

Is it right that the people controlling our government created these wars and funded both sides of most major battles throughout history?
 
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