Why The Conservitave Platform Isn't Even Wrong

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budleydoright

Well-Known Member
beenthere said:
Where are all the jobs, I'll start by saying that 97 % of all US businesses are "small businesses" and small businesses are suffering just as much. While higher taxes are a definite deterrent, they're not the only determining factor of whether small businesses expand and hire. Take my line of business (residential construction) as an example, from 1998-2007 I averaged about 22 employees, the economy was booming and everyone was happy. The biggest reason I and most people were doing so well, was because of the housing bubble.

Everyone and their brother were refinancing their homes and reaping the benefits of crazy high rising home equities.
Well, we all know what happened to the housing bubble, it burst and that in itself is up for another debate as to why.

The brunt of my work came from wealthy people, people I know that were making $300K - $500k a year and up.
I have no idea what their tax rates were, but I do know that these people were not affected by a couple of points up or down on the tax rates of their wages, it was their capital gains from investments. The extra money they accumulated by these capital gains was the disposable income they used to build these expensive houses.

There is no argument that the disposable income of these rich people created jobs and stimulated small business, my employees and I are testament to this fact.

Fast forward to 2012, that 22 employee company of mine is now shrunken down to me and 4 workers!
Keep in mind that this boom took place while taxes on wages were 39.6% (Clinton era) and 35% (Bush tax cut era)

What no one talks about or realizes is, during the touted "Clinton Boom", Bill Clinton actually [cut] the capital gains tax from 28% down to 20% and also gave tax [cuts] to over 90% of American small businesses. Why is this inconvenient fact always ignored?

So if you are claiming the money made by the investments of the rich didn't trickle down to my employees and I (the middle class) , you are sadly mistaken. BTW, my debate is not targeted to make the left look wrong and the right look right, and they're not something I read from an article or a right wing blog, they're real life facts.
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I agree with you it does tickle down to the service industry. but it no longer trickles to a local tv or stereo shop, best buy and walmart own those markets. There are fewer and fewer small businesses. I've seen a small town of 16,000 go from a small local economy to everyone being on disability in 10yrs. Walmart moved in and destroyed all the local businesses and now has their tenticles directly into the states welfare system. Small business is under attack from all sides. I have a hard time believing small biz makes up 97% these days.

The states get into bidding wars to get a factory to move into town. they give up land, buildings and taxes to get them in. So when I look at the big picture, it's quite easy to see what the problem is.

Also much of the wealth made in the stock market is a direct result of investments made by the US taxpayers. the interstate highway, NASA, military, etc...

So these investments that they make are often used to create large corperations that can sell nails for less than anyone else, free market yes. Short sighted, absolutely.

You know it's funny that every mansion in the US especially the ones one the coasts have socialized flood insurance. I never hear anyone complaining about that!
 
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beenthere

New Member
budleydoright said:
I agree with you it does tickle down to the service industry. but it no longer trickles to a local tv or stereo shop, best buy and walmart own those markets. There are fewer and fewer small businesses. I've seen a small town of 16,000 go from a small local economy to everyone being on disability in 10yrs. Walmart moved in and destroyed all the local businesses and now has their tenticles directly into the states welfare system. Small business is under attack from all sides. I have a hard time believing small biz makes up 97% these days.

The states get into bidding wars to get a factory to move into town. they give up land, buildings and taxes to get them in. So when I look at the big picture, it's quite easy to see what the problem is.

Also much of the wealth made in the stock market is a direct result of investments made by the US taxpayers. the interstate highway, NASA, military, etc...

So these investments that they make are often used to create large corperations that can sell nails for less than anyone else, free market yes. Short sighted, absolutely.

You know it's funny that every mansion in the US especially the ones one the coasts have socialized flood insurance. I never hear anyone complaining about that!
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You are so right, big corporations are destroying our small businesses. But you have to ask yourself who is to blame, I say it's you and I for supporting them, and our corrupt government who's in bed with them.
Look through the threads on RIU, just about every post involving the purchase of inexpensive soil, pipe, totes, portable ACs, you name it, it's always Home Depot. Walmart or Lowes . That's because we all want the best products for the cheapest price, and very few of us ever consider paying a little more to support our small local mom and pop stores, our bad!

On top of that, federal and state governments impose crippling regulations that the mom and pop businesses do not have the capital to absorb or the lawyers to lobby against them.

In the end, the only winners are the corrupt (democrat & republican) politicians, their attorneys and the greedy filthy rich.
 
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budleydoright

Well-Known Member
i agree it's short sighted to support these store with our patronage. however I see corperations as a group of people (a union) who's only objective is to absorb as much of their market as possible without regards to the cost. So we have a union of wealthy people fighting with unions of working people for what's on the table. The fight has been going on for centuries, but now the union of greed now has purchased the GOP, who's faithful will throw themselves under the bus if they think it will stop those (insert crazy agenda here).

I've been self employed my entire life so I know the struggle, however it never the regulations that fuck me up. It's some big company copying my ideas and having their products made overseas. A chain coming into town and underselling me. The one time a regulation messed with me, it was a law passed promoted by one business to punish another. The wright amendment in texass is a perfect example of this.
 
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beenthere

New Member
budleydoright said:
I've been self employed my entire life so I know the struggle, however it never the regulations that fuck me up. It's some big company copying my ideas and having their products made overseas. A chain coming into town and underselling me. The one time a regulation messed with me, it was a law passed promoted by one business to punish another. The wright amendment in texass is a perfect example of this.
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I'm in the construction business, we're so friggin regulated it's sickening, I'll bet California has more fee's, laws and regulations than all other states combined. LOL

BTW, I checked out your BlueBerry, that's a sweet setup bro.
 
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budleydoright

Well-Known Member
Thanks. That's an old setup. I have a new room with 4k open hood cea. I would like to post a new journal but I have no camera for shit and little time.

Now who got all those construction regulations passed? Large contractors?
 
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beenthere

New Member
budleydoright said:
Thanks. That's an old setup. I have a new room with 4k open hood cea. I would like to post a new journal but I have no camera for shit and little time.

Now who got all those construction regulations passed? Large contractors?
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Not at all, most of the regulations are compliments of the state of California and the good old EPA.
 
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budleydoright

Well-Known Member
But who is behind sponsoring the bill? A big contractor can make the path to compliance harder for smaller contractors. higher insurance etc...

I worked for a bar owner once that organized a neighborhood association specifically to oppose a new competitor opening up in that area.

Business can get dirty
 
Ace Spoddity

Ace Spoddity

Member
Get your facts straight Bucky, if a business owner with an average taxable income of $200,000 makes an extra $100k the following year, his tax liability will go up approximately $25,000. That would make his effective rate on that extra income around 25%, the same effective rate you paid on 1/4 of the income. LOL
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Wow I guess if my business makes 100k more than last year I will have to get by on an extra 75k. Fuck that why bother. I think I'll bitch about the taxes and tell my wife that I can make the 100k extra this year without really trying but since I will have to give the tax man 25k of it I don't want it. I know businesses are shutting down left and right because they are making so much money that the owners are quitting because they have to pay taxes. If you are a business owner in America and you have to bitch about your taxes then you are a dumbass and really need a better accountant.
 
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beenthere

New Member
Ace Spoddity said:
Wow I guess if my business makes 100k more than last year I will have to get by on an extra 75k. Fuck that why bother. I think I'll bitch about the taxes and tell my wife that I can make the 100k extra this year without really trying but since I will have to give the tax man 25k of it I don't want it. I know businesses are shutting down left and right because they are making so much money that the owners are quitting because they have to pay taxes. If you are a business owner in America and you have to bitch about your taxes then you are a dumbass and really need a better accountant.
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If you're an employee that bitch's and whine's about wanting more pay, then you're a dumb ass and really need better skills.
 
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beenthere

New Member
UncleBuck said:
you clearly have no shame about it, you keep those yellow twigs proudly on display.
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I see you're still wanting to add nitrogen to maturing flowers. LMAO
Here's a link that may help you on growing basics. https://www.rollitup.org/newbie-central/

I remember the last time you got cocky and mouthed off about something you had little knowledge of, you got your ass handed to you on your own tax rate.

I'll make it simple for you.

1. You don't add nitrogen to a mature flowering plant.
2. A pay stub does not indicate your effective tax rate.

There is a valuable lesson to be learned, the next time you feel compelled to open your wikipedia educated mouth on a subject you have limited knowledge of, try to remember this, students do not teach Bucky, students learn.
 
canndo

canndo

Well-Known Member
beenthere said:
Where are all the jobs, I'll start by saying that 97 % of all US businesses are "small businesses" and small businesses are suffering just as much. While higher taxes are a definite deterrent, they're not the only determining factor of whether small businesses expand and hire. Take my line of business (residential construction) as an example, from 1998-2007 I averaged about 22 employees, the economy was booming and everyone was happy. The biggest reason I and most people were doing so well, was because of the housing bubble.

Everyone and their brother were refinancing their homes and reaping the benefits of crazy high rising home equities.
Well, we all know what happened to the housing bubble, it burst and that in itself is up for another debate as to why.

The brunt of my work came from wealthy people, people I know that were making $300K - $500k a year and up.
I have no idea what their tax rates were, but I do know that these people were not affected by a couple of points up or down on the tax rates of their wages, it was their capital gains from investments. The extra money they accumulated by these capital gains was the disposable income they used to build these expensive houses.

There is no argument that the disposable income of these rich people created jobs and stimulated small business, my employees and I are testament to this fact.

Fast forward to 2012, that 22 employee company of mine is now shrunken down to me and 4 workers!
Keep in mind that this boom took place while taxes on wages were 39.6% (Clinton era) and 35% (Bush tax cut era)

What no one talks about or realizes is, during the touted "Clinton Boom", Bill Clinton actually [cut] the capital gains tax from 28% down to 20% and also gave tax [cuts] to over 90% of American small businesses. Why is this inconvenient fact always ignored?

So if you are claiming the money made by the investments of the rich didn't trickle down to my employees and I (the middle class) , you are sadly mistaken. BTW, my debate is not targeted to make the left look wrong and the right look right, and they're not something I read from an article or a right wing blog, they're real life facts.
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Nice story, but it seems that you may be attributing causality where it doesn't belong. If those rich got an even larger break, would that lead to your building more houses for those self same people? Now if you had adjusted your sights and the actual middle class had gotten a boost you should have been swimming in new house orders, and employing hundreds. The point is that in general, nothing trickled down to those who did not cater to the wealthy - you apparently did. Anyone who sells caviar will claim that the trickle down economy is a reality, they guy who sells hamburger will say something far different.
 
canndo

canndo

Well-Known Member
beenthere said:
I'm in the construction business, we're so friggin regulated it's sickening, I'll bet California has more fee's, laws and regulations than all other states combined. LOL

BTW, I checked out your BlueBerry, that's a sweet setup bro.
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Yes, it is sickening in California, but check any country or region that has earthquakes and you will see that the death toll and loss of property is huge. Now compare that to California. Our slim loss of life and majority of infrastructure left standing isn't an accident.
 
Harrekin

Harrekin

Well-Known Member
beenthere said:
I see you're still wanting to add nitrogen to maturing flowers. LMAO
Here's a link that may help you on growing basics. https://www.rollitup.org/newbie-central/

I remember the last time you got cocky and mouthed off about something you had little knowledge of, you got your ass handed to you on your own tax rate.

I'll make it simple for you.

1. You don't add nitrogen to a mature flowering plant.
2. A pay stub does not indicate your effective tax rate.

There is a valuable lesson to be learned, the next time you feel compelled to open your wikipedia educated mouth on a subject you have limited knowledge of, try to remember this, students do not teach Bucky, students learn.
Click to expand...
Is there something wrong with keeping plants green and 100% photosynthetically active?

Noob please...
 
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