Woman calls out family at Walmart for using food stamps

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ThickStemz

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
oh now you are talking shit. You have this strange concept of "the deserving poor" yet you are by and large ignorant about where our subsidies go and how they are used. Also you live in an imaginary past, when the good and pure raised themselves up by their bootstraps like grandpappy did. A Faux News moron was minted when you came of age.

Have you heard of survivor bias? The people who died of malnutrition and disease related malnutrition during the Great Depression aren't able to tell you their tales. All we hear about are the young men and women that came out of that era, fought WWII and went out into the world kitted with diplomas and training from a well deserved GI Bill. Well, there are no reliable statistics regarding hunger, malnutrition and related deaths from that time. It doesn't mean it didn't happen. Plenty of images from that time show mighty thin and haggard people. They didn't get that way from full bellies. Nor would food riots that happened with regularity across the country be perpetrated by fat men and women.

So, bullshit, moron. Feed people and they will go on to do great things, like you grandpappy did. Starve them and you get nothing but suffering and decline.
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That makes a lot of sense.

Still though. America's perception of the depression comes from NYC and the dust bowl. Some hoovervilles thrown in. The migrations west.

I asked my grandfather once If he remember that time. Asked him what life was like here after the depression started. He said no one noticed until the next summer, demand for moonshine went down.

In other words. Most of the country was already in a depression.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
MjAeJdIiK said:
And we all know there is no way the data could be false.... And trust me, in my state there is a lot more than 3% food stamp fraud, do you watch the news in my state? Its all over TV its no big secret. All I was saying is that I figured out where a good portion of the fraud was from. Your going to honestly tell me someone who can afford to wear a 500 outfit, have a $500 phone, and probably 1-2 grand in jewelry and all that shit should seriously be on food stamps?? Sorry but your an idiot if you support that. I'm all for food stamps etc for peeps who need it, but the folks I'm talking about don't need it, and they are blatent about it, and its common here.
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This is a good example of twisted logic. " No way the audits and data collected by controlling agencies of the government can be accurate", but "trust the anonymous poster that he is the real truth". I guessed ahead of time that you would deny the audit report that found 97% of the payments were for legally valid recipients. Its pretty much part and parcel of the right wing echo chamber of lies and deception. So much so that its filtered into the general public.

So, no. I don't trust you. Your so called observation is just something that needs to be scraped off my boot, like any other dog shit that I accidentally stepped on.
 
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MjAeJdIiK

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
This is a good example of twisted logic. " No way the audits and data collected by controlling agencies of the government can be accurate", but "trust the anonymous poster that he is the real truth". I guessed ahead of time that you would deny the audit report that found 97% of the payments were for legally valid recipients. Its pretty much part and parcel of the right wing echo chamber of lies and deception. So much so that its filtered into the general public.

So, no. I don't trust you. Your so called observation is just something that needs to be scraped off my boot, like any other dog shit that I accidentally stepped on.
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You don't trust me , fair enough, I don't trust you either. But you do see nothing wrong with people who make plenty of money to support themselves getting food stamps, I got that part right?

And no, I def don't trust any government agency's studies on anything. But I should cause we all know the government doesn't lie to us.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
ThickStemz said:
That makes a lot of sense.

Still though. America's perception of the depression comes from NYC and the dust bowl. Some hoovervilles thrown in. The migrations west.

I asked my grandfather once If he remember that time. Asked him what life was like here after the depression started. He said no one noticed until the next summer, demand for moonshine went down.

In other words. Most of the country was already in a depression.
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The rural areas in the US were economically depressed more than ten years before the Great Depression hit the cities. Check out PBS documentary on the Great Depression if you would like to know more than what granddad told you. I guess you were sleeping through that section when you were in high school.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
MjAeJdIiK said:
You don't trust me , fair enough, I don't trust you either. But you do see nothing wrong with people who make plenty of money to support themselves getting food stamps, I got that part right?

And no, I def don't trust any government agency's studies on anything. But I should cause we all know the government doesn't lie to us.
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No, I don't believe that "everybody getting food stamps is cheating" nor "most". A few do. And your implied claim that the government always lies to us is also nonsense.
 
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MjAeJdIiK

Well-Known Member
@Fogdog you make a ton ofgreat points about people suffering from mal nutrition, the depression etc... And I agree with you.
I think somehow your missing my point, I am all for helping those truely in need, how have I not made that clear?? I think the ppl who can afford to feed themselves yet still get food stamps suck. Food stamp fraud is a big problem where I live, more than 3% dude. I don't know why this is getting you so upset.
 
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MjAeJdIiK

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
No, I don't believe that "everybody getting food stamps is cheating" nor "most". A few do. And your implied claim that the government always lies to us is also nonsense.
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Uhh never once did I say everyone who gets food stamps is cheating. Please quote my post instead of making your own posts tyvm. But I said its a lot more than 3% in my state. And again, never said the government always lies, but they lie enough for mW to not trust them. I had respect for you points but now your being stupid, its true, several government agency's have done study's and said that 3% of the time on this thread you're being stupid, trust me ;)
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
MjAeJdIiK said:
@Fogdog you make a ton ofgreat points about people suffering from mal nutrition, the depression etc... And I agree with you.
I think somehow your missing my point, I am all for helping those truely in need, how have I not made that clear?? I think the ppl who can afford to feed themselves yet still get food stamps suck. Food stamp fraud is a big problem where I live, more than 3% dude. I don't know why this is getting you so upset.
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You are repeating the same stuff that is used to by right wingers to eliminate food assistance for the poor. With only your word for what you've seen. I'm just saying that what you believe to be true -- that most recipients are frauds -- is tenuous and not believable.

Think about it this way: 46 million recipients. About 1% fraud makes about 500,000 people out there abusing the system. Maybe you have more in your area than others, I don't know. If you check what's available on line, the only people saying what you say are foam flecked right wingnuts and their propaganda organ on FOX. So, who should I listen to?
 
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MjAeJdIiK

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
You are repeating the same stuff that is used to by right wingers to eliminate food assistance for the poor. With only your word for what you've seen. I'm just saying that what you believe to be true -- that most recipients are frauds -- is tenuous and not believable.

Think about it this way: 46 million recipients. About 1% fraud makes about 500,000 people out there abusing the system. Maybe you have more in your area than others, I don't know. If you check what's available on line, the only people saying what you say are foam flecked right wingnuts and their propaganda organ on FOX. So, who should I listen to?
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But I do think poor people should get food stamps... Just not people who have money for dope cloths and phones and beer and cigs and all that... How can you say its ok tonspend your money on shit like that bit then need free food?
 
NLXSK1

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
You are repeating the same stuff that is used to by right wingers to eliminate food assistance for the poor. With only your word for what you've seen. I'm just saying that what you believe to be true -- that most recipients are frauds -- is tenuous and not believable.

Think about it this way: 46 million recipients. About 1% fraud makes about 500,000 people out there abusing the system. Maybe you have more in your area than others, I don't know. If you check what's available on line, the only people saying what you say are foam flecked right wingnuts and their propaganda organ on FOX. So, who should I listen to?
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How does the government know the level of fraud? A good fraud is not discovered. So if the government food agencies are as good as the immigration authorities then fraud is something like 30% of the food assistance program.
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
NLXSK1 said:
How does the government know the level of fraud? A good fraud is not discovered. So if the government food agencies are as good as the immigration authorities then fraud is something like 30% of the food assistance program.
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"Efforts to Curb Other SNAP Abuses Are Extensive and Effective

USDA has cut “trafficking” — the sale of SNAP benefits for cash, which violates federal law — by three-quarters over the past 15 years. Only 1 percent, or $1 in every $100 of SNAP benefits, is trafficked. USDA has also permanently disqualified thousands of retail stores from the program for not following federal requirements. In fiscal year 2012, USDA’s retailer fraud investigations resulted in 342 convictions and $57.7 million in recoveries. When cases of SNAP fraud are reported in the news, it is because the offenders have been caught, evidence that states and USDA are aggressively combating fraud.

In addition, SNAP now comes in the form of an electronic debit card –– like the ATM cards that most Americans carry in their wallets — which recipients can use in the supermarket checkout line only to purchase food. This has been a key tool to reduce trafficking. Sophisticated computer programs monitor SNAP transactions for patterns that may suggest abuse. Federal and state law enforcement agencies are then alerted and investigate. Retailers or SNAP recipients who defraud SNAP by trading their benefit cards for money or misrepresenting their circumstances face tough criminal penalties."


Like usual, the facts are not on your side. There is not rampant abuse in the SNAP program, you're upset there is a SNAP program to begin with because you think the government is stealing your money to pay for it, even though 4 out of 5 meals go to kids, 8 out of 10 adults who utilize it go to work and each meal a recipient does receive costs less than $1.40...

So why does it upset you that the government uses tax dollars to pay for this at something like $40/year out of the average paycheck, but subsidies and tax cuts to multinational corporations that come out of every American's pocket, including yours, don't? Why does it only bother you when poor people receive help and not rich individuals or corporations?
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
MjAeJdIiK said:
But I do think poor people should get food stamps... Just not people who have money for dope cloths and phones and beer and cigs and all that... How can you say its ok tonspend your money on shit like that bit then need free food?
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I had to look it up, I didn't know there was a program called "life line assistance" that has provided cell phones to 20 million people who qualify. I think its great that we have this program. For people that qualify and apply for the aid.

The thing is, if a person qualifies under the program, what gives you or me or anybody the right to look up their ass and decide how they should use the benefit? What gives that bitch in the video the right to castigate that man in the store for using his legally valid and legally obtained (I assume) food benefit?

Again, you sneer at the source but I don't. Audits and testimony from controlling agencies outside of the FDA certified under oath that the information they provided was true. They found 3% "over payment" in the food assistance programs. Most overpayments were due to honest mistakes on either the administrator's or the recipients part and not fraud. That's damn good.

As far as what you saw being purchased, well you witnessed fraud, assuming you are telling the truth. If you want to do something about it, you can report the vendor who took those payments. The items you listed -- clothes, beer, cigarettes are not supported by SNAP.

"The following categories are strictly prohibited: beer, wine, liquor, cigarettes or tobacco, and any nonfood items, (e.g. pet foods, soaps, paper products, and household supplies), vitamins and medicines, and prepared hot foods. Travel is definitely not supported by SNAP!" http://www.huffingtonpost.com/susan-blumenthal/food-stamp-myths_b_1334924.html


Now, if you want to argue that the requirements are too low, maybe I can go there. Do you know what requirement to qualify are?
 
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MjAeJdIiK

Well-Known Member
@Fogdog No you misunderstand me. I see a lot of people pay CASH for beer cigs etc, then pull out the card for food, if you have money for beer and ciggs then you should have money for food. Yes the phone assistance is good, I agree, but theybarnt handing out the newest I phone for that... Get what I'm saying?

I think you mistaking me for being someone who thinks no one should get help and all that, that's not the case
 
T

ThickStemz

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
The rural areas in the US were economically depressed more than ten years before the Great Depression hit the cities. Check out PBS documentary on the Great Depression if you would like to know more than what granddad told you. I guess you were sleeping through that section when you were in high school.
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The rural areas of the United States have been in depression since forever until the paved road and the automobile.

You give the new deal programs a lot of credit for ending that.

What I would say contributed to it a lot was mechanization. Share-cropping was necessary because the rich man had more land than anyone could farm. He divided it between several families and tadum...

After WWI we really learned how to make tractors. The time gap until ww2 yielded better and cheaper tractors and machinery. The need for share croppers went away. Good timing for the GIBill..

The rest of the world had all their factories bombed to shit and as a result most of my grandfather's siblings and cousins moved to places like Detroit.

But the rural poor always lived like that. They didnt know another way. Its miserable by our standards. I guess my point is they didnt know enough to know they were poor. They eaked out an existence and made it work.

Yes their life is better.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
MjAeJdIiK said:
@Fogdog No you misunderstand me. I see a lot of people pay CASH for beer cigs etc, then pull out the card for food, if you have money for beer and ciggs then you should have money for food. Yes the phone assistance is good, I agree, but theybarnt handing out the newest I phone for that... Get what I'm saying?

I think you mistaking me for being someone who thinks no one should get help and all that, that's not the case
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Ok, my apologies. I did misread what you were saying.

I guess maybe we have different attitude about this. If somebody makes so little that they qualify for SNAP, then whatever they do with their own hard earned cash, I feel, is up to them. The poor have the same rights as everybody else. Including the right to be foolish with what little cash they have. It's also about dignity and respect to everybody.
 
NLXSK1

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Well, ask veterans if they want the VA system to be dissolved.
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your solution is that the system is shit but it is all they got so they should be happy?

How about 2 years ago, congress should have authorized that Vets can get private treatment if the wait times at the VA were too long. Oh wait, that would have been too easy. So, 2 years down the road, thousands more dead vets who were ignored and not given what they were promised by the government.

One of the reasons why the GOP is so fucking pathetic. They could have fixed this.
 
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