World Of Hempy

Dalek Supreme

Dalek Supreme

Well-Known Member
smoothness said:
I don't have a oh meter yet until I get paid soon so I'm Ph blind right now. But I'm feeding very low and I'm using distilled water. Hopefully some of these seedlings will pull thru before my supplies come in
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Was it you using a couple of drops of Dyna Gro Grow?If yes then that is a good starting point.Ease light in,keep medium moist not dry or saturated.

General Hydroponics PH kit is economical and works.
 
jela10

jela10

Well-Known Member
WattSaver said:
I have to admit that when I break down buckets that they seem to always separate at the top of the rez, but I find roots in the perlite in the rez area. Could be with coco that there is enough expansion and contraction of the coco during a wet to dry cycle to make it hard to maintain roots between the different mediums???? Could be the combined weight of the wet coco above pressing on the non-compressive perlite????
Dalek has mentioned when using the poly fiber that he keeps his root system above the rez, and feeds by wicking...

Here's a 2gal bucket I broke down, that run was soil to the bottom of the veg time soil core. So there was only 1 1/2-2" of perlite above the rez the green algae is the top of the rez (used white buckets and the light does get through)
You can see many roots below the top of rez. View attachment 2372119View attachment 2372120

Here's a 2L you can still kinda see the shape of the bottle bottom View attachment 2372131

jella, this run I'm going to do a couple of coco on perlite hempy's I'll be sure to pay attention when I break em' down later.
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Wattsaver, thanks for the pics of your bucket breakdown and your interest in this "science". It's kind-of looking like my phenomena may be related to coco only or the fact that I use larger perlite than most. The wicking action of the coco must pull liquid upwards from the perlite, providing the optimum root zone above the res. The air formed at the top of the res as the liquid level drops may be causing "air pruning", something seen in air pots and the like. The larger perlite (3/16" - 1/4") may have larger air gaps between the chunks too (my aim was to provide more res capacity. less watering frequency). I don't feed the buckets unless they get really light when lifted. One notable thing about coco is, when plants are young, I don't have to water daily till the roots hit the res as with perlite hempy's. The coco stays at the optimum water/air mixture with the res just half full. The plants take off early with light nutes. Whatever the phenomena, coco is a killer medium. I'd love to get my hands on some Mapito and compare...looks like a fun experiment.
 
WattSaver

WattSaver

Well-Known Member
Dalek Supreme said:
I just want to set the record straight.I do not depend on the wicking,capillary action,or lack of such,in the medium I use,or used (Polyfill,Hydroton,Perlite).


My main concern is the capillary capabilities within the roots(not all plants are created equal),but with a micro setup that concern is less.I feel Coco would be silly for me,while I see the benefit for it's use for a much larger Hempy bucket.
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Question; Does the polyfill wick water to keep the roots moist, or do you have to maintain the moisture level by top watering??
Because as you explained below neither dry nor waterlogged roots absorb O2 well.

Dalek Supreme said:
The wait while the first signs of growth when the roots hits the res is eliminated with RRR
(roots rest on res) method.It is simply dipping a root or roots on top of the res,so it is at the feeder roots goal.

ABC's Beneath The World of Hempy.

I see 3 zones below the surface,and all should be as light free as possible of course.

Zone A (Taproot):There should be some distance between zone A,and zone C.

Zone B (Air Zone Roots):This is where Oxygen,H2O,and some nutes feed the roots.The larger the Hempy bucket the more important the medium in zone B acts like a proper soil ecosystem for Cannabis the better.I do not grow large plants so I am working on the theory of decreased capillary capability with increased Taproot to res distance.Zone B imho is the major source of Oxygen to feed the roots.Constantly saturated will choke roots,or a collapse of zone B will kill plant entirely.Constantly dry will produce woody stems,slowing down Oxygen absorption.What kind of soil does Cannabis like?

Zone C (Feeder Roots):The underworld of W.O.H.,this is where the mutants live in exile.This is the roots main goal.Find a water supply to support elemental osmotic mobilisation supported by the plants genetics,and enviroment.The grower optimises zone C with the right nute strength,and PH range.Dense medium,or what ever wet/dry cycles that grow roots that do not dig deep in the res would be a good observance.I am simply guessing that when the goals of the Feeder roots are met,they then get comfy.If one wants to see more roots deeper in the res at harvest time,I say try more 6500K in flower,and report back here (I would like to know strain/lighting/etc).
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Great explanation on the root zone in the bucket.
I've always tried to get a full light spectrum during the flower cycle. I've used hps only one run between my LED phase and current CMH phase. I wish I'd payed more attention to the roots when I broke down those hps buckets.

So in your style of growin' and jella's do you think that the change in mediums at the rez limits the root penetration?? Where with a common medium through zones B & C the roots have no problems in the transition.

I'm not convinced on jella's idea that the extra chunky perlite is creating an air pruning situation. Mainly because the air in the zone will be extremely moist. And as in the 2L root shot I posted I used fresh size #4 perlite which is mainly 1/2" chunks, and those roots went hard to the bottom. I've always believed that letting the rez completely dry forced the roots to head for the bottom. Where as you mentioned that the roots will get cozy if the water source is always available at one level.

I've got more pondering to do on this topic, sounds like a job for a big fatty.
 
Dalek Supreme

Dalek Supreme

Well-Known Member
WattSaver said:
Question; Does the polyfill wick water to keep the roots moist, or do you have to maintain the moisture level by top watering??
Because as you explained below neither dry nor waterlogged roots absorb O2 well.

Only things I count on in zone B is darkness,condensation retension,passive airflow between surface,and drain hole,for comfy roots..As the plants pumps from the res,the roots that are in a comfy state keep themselves moist.Though not very effecient,and more stressfull,the larger the container,I feel one can Hempy with only gravel.Zone B will enjoy a flooding from time to time.An over flowing feed,or a thumb plugged drain hole feed now and then mimics what Cannabis loves in nature.





Great explanation on the root zone in the bucket.
I've always tried to get a full light spectrum during the flower cycle. I've used hps only one run between my LED phase and current CMH phase. I wish I'd payed more attention to the roots when I broke down those hps buckets.

I run 50/50 Spectrum with floros in flower.I get more res penetration with the Polyfil,than with Hydroton.Not that the Hydroton stops the feeder roots,but the roots feel more comfort in the less dense Hydroton.This is at the expense of danger of collapse for a larger plant.Imho some 6500K in flower helps with resin production,and aids in an allready low priority at this stage root development.

So in your style of growin' and jella's do you think that the change in mediums at the rez limits the root penetration?? Where with a common medium through zones B & C the roots have no problems in the transition.

I feel as long roots are dipping in res they will find there comfy state on what they are given,and what they can do built in.If the medium in zone C has enough water retension,combined with a comfy state then they will hang,for the feeder roots needs are met.
Concrete does not stop a weed,so neither should let's say Coco as a medium.

I'm not convinced on jella's idea that the extra chunky perlite is creating an air pruning situation. Mainly because the air in the zone will be extremely moist. And as in the 2L root shot I posted I used fresh size #4 perlite which is mainly 1/2" chunks, and those roots went hard to the bottom. I've always believed that letting the rez completely dry forced the roots to head for the bottom. Where as you mentioned that the roots will get cozy if the water source is always available at one level.

Air pruning,or woody/callous roots in zone B would be a result of an inbalance of the comfy state for that specific zone.If I was doing driveway gravel Hempy?That would be exceptible,and I still would get a harvest.It would only mean that zone B is running with some degree of collapse even though it is physically not.

I can theorise that the Gold's Gym style workout for the roots of letting the res run dry can cause an osmotic snap back.Picture drinking milk with a straw.When you reach the bottom you lose suction,and some milk flows back.Now does this flow back trigger the roots to use the flow back juices,and grow deeper into what it needs the most at that moment?I prefer a Jack LaLanne workout of allowing some PH drift,and giving it what it needs when it needs it.

I've got more pondering to do on this topic, sounds like a job for a big fatty.
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While you are token on that Phatty like a fine cuban,look at the pic,and think about how you would like to make a layered Hempy Lasagna with Polyfill,and your favorite Hempy medium.
 

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jela10

jela10

Well-Known Member
Say I just remembered, when I used to start my seeds and clones in Solo cup hempy's of coco, I remember the perlite at the bottom 1&1/2" res was root bound and it was always transplanted with the plug over into the final bucket of coco. Go figure! We may be up against plant needs vs. container size and phase of growth??????. I typically don't veg long...usually 3 weeks to 4 max.
 
Dalek Supreme

Dalek Supreme

Well-Known Member
jela10 said:
Say I just remembered, when I used to start my seeds and clones in Solo cup hempy's of coco, I remember the perlite at the bottom 1&1/2" res was root bound and it was always transplanted with the plug over into the final bucket of coco. Go figure! We may be up against plant needs vs. container size and phase of growth??????. I typically don't veg long...usually 3 weeks to 4 max.
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After 6 mos a Bonsai Hempy Mum will show signs of root bound in a 24oz cup,so has been my experience.I have seen Hempy's just before harvest in 1gal buckets that rival 5 gal soil grows just before harvest. I provide the best enviroment I can,and let the plant do the rest on what it knows best.
 
Nizza

Nizza

Well-Known Member
update! photo 1.jpgphoto 2.jpgphoto 3.jpg ok so its a 47 gal rubbermaid resevoir please give me an idea of how i can get all those dixie cups in there. ive been thinking of a net pot type set up but im not sure. my goal is to take all of the dixies out and flower in the next 4-5 days and then mother up the blackberry plant in time for the next run. the light is a 430 enhanced spectrum and its on a 4 foot light mover. im going to add a couple more support lights because i think it rolls way to far. Any idea how i can turn these lil hempys and put em in the flood and drain table? thanks!!
 
jela10

jela10

Well-Known Member
C99's, 37 days from seed, 12th day of flower. They hit 37" from the top of the coco today. In 3 days it went from a hair here and hair there to buds clusters at every branch tip. You can't see but the top 2" is forming a cola of flowers on each plant. Hempy is such a wild ride compared to soil. I get big ole smiles when I seez 'em go through the that 3 week explosion after the flip.
 

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WattSaver

WattSaver

Well-Known Member
jela10 said:
C99's, 37 days from seed, 12th day of flower. They hit 37" from the top of the coco today. In 3 days it went from a hair here and hair there to buds clusters at every branch tip. You can't see but the top 2" is forming a cola of flowers on each plant. Hempy is such a wild ride compared to soil. I get big ole smiles when I seez 'em go through the that 3 week explosion after the flip.
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That hempy growth explosion through wk4 has had me scrambling more than once. Looks really good jela.
I expanded a brick of coco this weekend, gonna give it a real try next run.

Edit: What brand and specs are those LED's?? They look like UFO's on steroids...
 
Moebius

Moebius

Well-Known Member
Nizza said:
update! View attachment 2373935View attachment 2373936View attachment 2373937 ok so its a 47 gal rubbermaid resevoir please give me an idea of how i can get all those dixie cups in there. ive been thinking of a net pot type set up but im not sure. my goal is to take all of the dixies out and flower in the next 4-5 days and then mother up the blackberry plant in time for the next run. the light is a 430 enhanced spectrum and its on a 4 foot light mover. im going to add a couple more support lights because i think it rolls way to far. Any idea how i can turn these lil hempys and put em in the flood and drain table? thanks!!
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Are you calling that Rubbermaid a "table"? .. I'm a little confused.

Anyways, I'm guessing that you want to flood the res, then drain? Its a little difficult to tell how your setup works from the pics. If you want to flower them soon, I wouldn't go transplanting into anything fancy. How about just a larger pot and hand water? and do what you planned next time around.
 
kgb424

kgb424

Active Member
this might be a dumb question I was looking at different seed companies on the net, and I was looking at there germination technique's a lot of them say to use the paper towel method,I say on one or two the sites, that say not to germinate seeds in perlite, I have used perlite/vermiculite, but I always didn't get good results, until I started using a heat mat, and vented dome, so is perlite not a good medium to start seeds in ??? I was using bag seed before to get a couple of grows under my belt,using cfls with good result but now that I purchased some Blue Mystic,White Rhino,Blackberry Kush,California Orange Bud seeds, and built two 8ft by 4ft by 8ft tall rooms,out of panda film and 2'' by 2''.I'm using two 4ft 8 tube t5's to veg with and digital 1000' watt hps to flower with and want to up my seed germination success rate so is the a secret to great germination
 
georgyboy

georgyboy

Active Member
kgb424 said:
this might be a dumb question I was looking at different seed companies on the net, and I was looking at there germination technique's a lot of them say to use the paper towel method,I say on one or two the sites, that say not to germinate seeds in perlite, I have used perlite/vermiculite, but I always didn't get good results, until I started using a heat mat, and vented dome, so is perlite not a good medium to start seeds in ??? I was using bag seed before to get a couple of grows under my belt,using cfls with good result but now that I purchased some Blue Mystic,White Rhino,Blackberry Kush,California Orange Bud seeds, and built two 8ft by 4ft by 8ft tall rooms,out of panda film and 2'' by 2''.I'm using two 4ft 8 tube t5's to veg with and digital 1000' watt hps to flower with and want to up my seed germination success rate so is the a secret to great germination
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Hey KGB sounds like you have a good set up. In my opinion, the paper towel method is not the best way to start your seeds. Though most seeds will germinate in the paper towel, you then have to risk damaging the tender taproot by moving it from the paper towel to your growing container of choice. I find it better to keep it simple and sow the seed either directly into your container or to use a jiffy pellet or rapid rooter plug. Keep the soil/pellet wet, but not soaked, and keep the temperatures between 70-85*F and you will have little seedlings in no time. Planting directly into perlite is not the best idea. It has poor moisture retention and does not provide good all around contact to the seed.
 
kgb424

kgb424

Active Member
I noticed when I used perlite/vermiculite, it would keep it moist, but what really helped was the 28' watt 2ft T5 above the dome,
 
georgyboy

georgyboy

Active Member
jela10 said:
I touched on this subject before and wonder what your opinion is...I was just cleaning up the last bucket from the last grow and although a different strain, this girl had no roots in the 2" res zone either. All were uniformly radiating through the coco, but nothing down in the chunky #3 perlite. This really amazes me as I read somewhere that there are air roots and water roots and that some would reside in the reservoir below. As large as my plants have grown in this "passive" hydro grow method, they just won't send anything down into the res. The buckets too have been so free of crud and mineral deposits. I literally flip them upside down, shake the coco/perlite plug out and simply rinse with tap water (amazing). The plants appear to consume everything and I'm not using an enzyme (Cannazyme or Hydrozyme) to consume dead root material. I'm wondering "no-root" zone is due to my use of coco instead of perlite for the main medium, or if the roots just can't take the alternating wet/dry cycles seen in the res. Any ideas?
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I know I'm a little late but I wanted to pitch in. I pulled a few males a couple weeks ago and one of them was in coco with a perlite rez. It had vegged for a month and flowered for two weeks. The plant was the nicest and largest in the closet at the time. When I pulled it up out of the container almost all of the perlite stayed in the bottle and the plant came out with just the coco. The roots were thick and spread all around the coco, but they hadn't seemed to go into the perlite at all, as if there were an invisible wall between the two mediums. I"m really not sure why, but I still think the perlite is necessary. I would like to compare a hempy with the coco and perlite separated as we all seem to do it, and a straight 80/20 mix of coco and perlite. My guess is the separated hempy would out-perform the mixed medium.
 
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