Worrying Signs. Yellowing/dying lower leaves with upward curl.

yomammasson · Mar 22, 2015

Let me start by saying that this plant has been through a lot. It is my first grow, and first post, so I am sorry if this is the wrong section. It went through some serious overwatering, but recovered. Same with a fungus knat infestation (the brown dots I think). Recently, the lower leaves have been turning yellow, and now they are turning brown. I know this looks like a Nitrogen deficiency, and I am sure that it is. However, the leaves are also curling up when yellowing, but only slightly. I have read this coulg me a Mg deficiency. But can that happen so early? I am aware that the top leaves look overwatered. That is because they are. I saw the yellow, so I started to add my Fox Farms Grow Big to my water.But, I only noticed the yellow after a watering, so I weighed the options of overwatering vs. further yellowing of the leaves. So I watering it with the new Nitrogen enriched solution. That was yesterday. These are today's pictures. I guess what I am asking is for confirmation on my suspicions, and if my actions were correct. Also, what should I do?
Growing Material: 55% potting soil, 40% pearlite, 5% mulch for top layer
Water pH: 6.5
Soil pH: ~6.5 - 7
Lighting: 4 25w CFL

Abiqua · Mar 22, 2015

Older leaves is usually lack of Nitrogen or Magnesium....or even a sign of over-watering.... :peace:

Probably just hungry...

Abiqua · Mar 22, 2015

Seedlings in reality, need to be watered very lightly! Sometimes I get by with one watering a week even in very small start containers....

I would say you just need some patience and don't do too much....

Spanky's Monkey · Mar 22, 2015

gonna be honest here seeing as she is overwated and was overwatered to begin with you need to relax its a weed. if the seedling is overwatered from they start they will lock out the ability to process nutrients and you end up where you are at. stop feeding and watering until they dry out and start processing nutrients again. I did this on my second grow and it took me almost 2 weeks to let the little girl dry out and get back to where she was supposed to be.

Budzbuddha · Mar 22, 2015

Agree these are young ins ! That being said you are throwing too much nutes at them ( the background plants look the same ). It looks like your burning up your plants plus overwatering on top of that.

One thing I noticed was that you didn't state what your feed solution PH'd at BEFORE applying. Most good soil have enough micro / nutes in its mix to allow basic growth up to week 2 . THEN you can start a REDUCED ( around 1/4 strength to start ) nutrient mix.
FF nutes have a feed schedule that is only to be used as a guide. The measurements listed are at full strength . ( much too high for now ). I would stop feeding , water only ( when dry only ) could be awhile since it is overwatered. Allow ( hopefully ) your plants come around and look for any improvements. If not too late , they may thrive.

Now , time is what they need.
Also don't pull off any leaves , plant is already stressed.

Good luck.

yomammasson · Mar 23, 2015

Budzbuddha said:
Agree these are young ins ! That being said you are throwing too much nutes at them ( the background plants look the same ). It looks like your burning up your plants plus overwatering on top of that.

One thing I noticed was that you didn't state what your feed solution PH'd at BEFORE applying. Most good soil have enough micro / nutes in its mix to allow basic growth up to week 2 . THEN you can start a REDUCED ( around 1/4 strength to start ) nutrient mix.
FF nutes have a feed schedule that is only to be used as a guide. The measurements listed are at full strength . ( much too high for now ). I would stop feeding , water only ( when dry only ) could be awhile since it is overwatered. Allow ( hopefully ) your plants come around and look for any improvements. If not too late , they may thrive.

Now , time is what they need.
Also don't pull off any leaves , plant is already stressed.

Good luck.

Are you sure this looks like nuts burn? The lower leaves are yellowing, not all the edges. Also, doesn't nitrogen toxicity have very green leaves?

yomammasson · Mar 23, 2015

Spanky's Monkey said:
gonna be honest here seeing as she is overwated and was overwatered to begin with you need to relax its a weed. if the seedling is overwatered from they start they will lock out the ability to process nutrients and you end up where you are at. stop feeding and watering until they dry out and start processing nutrients again. I did this on my second grow and it took me almost 2 weeks to let the little girl dry out and get back to where she was supposed to be.

This makes sense. This plant actually just went a whole week without attention and looked perfectly fine, while the only other plant, a younger one, died in that period.

yomammasson · Mar 23, 2015

Budzbuddha said:
Agree these are young ins ! That being said you are throwing too much nutes at them ( the background plants look the same ). It looks like your burning up your plants plus overwatering on top of that.

One thing I noticed was that you didn't state what your feed solution PH'd at BEFORE applying. Most good soil have enough micro / nutes in its mix to allow basic growth up to week 2 . THEN you can start a REDUCED ( around 1/4 strength to start ) nutrient mix.
FF nutes have a feed schedule that is only to be used as a guide. The measurements listed are at full strength . ( much too high for now ). I would stop feeding , water only ( when dry only ) could be awhile since it is overwatered. Allow ( hopefully ) your plants come around and look for any improvements. If not too late , they may thrive.

Now , time is what they need.
Also don't pull off any leaves , plant is already stressed.

Good luck.

Thanks, just so you know, the plants in the background are completely different plants that are trying to recover from a week of drought.

Spanky's Monkey · Mar 23, 2015

We all start somewhere brother and for me after about the 5th grow I learned to just leave it alone. There are growers on the forum that will tell you to do this, that and the other thing. They will say use this nute regimen and so on. Seriously, it's a damn weed and is gonna grow regardless of what you do or try. You may be able to encourage certain growth aspects but these end up being incremental improvements when we are working on small grows and small plants. If you veg your girl for 3 or 4 months then yes you are gonna need to adhere to a dedicated nute regimen as that beast of a bush will have a massive root ball and serious upper growth taht requires a good balance. In a micro grow or small cab like most guys/gals in the particular forum run you simply don't have the space and time for that nonesense so overdoing any aspect of gardening becomes more of a detriment to proper growth and flowering. Don't fret this first grow on the next for that matter. Just get her to the finish line and every time you accomplish that simple task you will learn valuable lessons that will teach you how to grow with the plant vs how to make the plant grow. The only thing you need to worry about is getting her to flower and finish. If you can never finish you can never win, so lights, nutes, yield and all that mean nothing in the end.

yomammasson · Mar 23, 2015

Spanky's Monkey said:
We all start somewhere brother and for me after about the 5th grow I learned to just leave it alone. There are growers on the forum that will tell you to do this, that and the other thing. They will say use this nute regimen and so on. Seriously, it's a damn weed and is gonna grow regardless of what you do or try. You may be able to encourage certain growth aspects but these end up being incremental improvements when we are working on small grows and small plants. If you veg your girl for 3 or 4 months then yes you are gonna need to adhere to a dedicated nute regimen as that beast of a bush will have a massive root ball and serious upper growth taht requires a good balance. In a micro grow or small cab like most guys/gals in the particular forum run you simply don't have the space and time for that nonesense so overdoing any aspect of gardening becomes more of a detriment to proper growth and flowering. Don't fret this first grow on the next for that matter. Just get her to the finish line and every time you accomplish that simple task you will learn valuable lessons that will teach you how to grow with the plant vs how to make the plant grow. The only thing you need to worry about is getting her to flower and finish. If you can never finish you can never win, so lights, nutes, yield and all that mean nothing in the end.

It seems like these are definitely words to grow by. But my goal is for a quick turn around, and stunted growth is no Bueno. Believe it or not, that plant is probably about 5 or 6 weeks, so it has been stunted plenty. I think I will just leave it alone like you said.

Another thing I didn't mention is that over the week that it got no attention, it grew the most by far compared to any other week time span. That agrees with what you just told me.

Spanky's Monkey · Mar 23, 2015

I will never speak out of my ass with intent. I learned so much here at RIU and I learned just as much at home in my own garden. I'm just looking to help other growers out when I can. I too looked for the fastest turn around but realized that a fast turn around will lead to as many shortcuts as one can procure. These shorcuts will ultimately lead to failures and those failures lead to even longer turn arounds.

If you want the fastest possible turn around you need to look at growing auto-flowers or growing from 12/12. Auto-flowers are an excellent source for rapid results and some strains will offer a good yield. 12/12 is an awesome technique for turn arounds that are nearly as quick as autos and will require a little less strain on the light bill as 12/12 can be run mostly in off peak hours and the 20/4 or 18/6 that autos require will most certainly eat up peak hours raising that light bill even further. A great benefit to autos or 12/12 is that you only need the one grow space.

I run a perpetual grow from seed so I use a veg garden to start my girls off and then I have a seperate flower garden running to finish off the grow season. The setup I run allows me to veg out my plants as I see fit and flower at my convenience. At the moment I have 2 bagseed girls at the end of flower with 2 weeks to go in the flower box. In my veg box I have a Chocoloco fem that has just exited the seedling stage (14days old) and a Punky Lion fem that cracked it's shell and I'm waiting on that girl to break soil. I also have at least 7 bagseed beans in the veg box that once they break soil they will go into the flower box straight under 12/12. It seems like a lot but after a few grows you get it down to the point were you pay attention more to the plants needs and less to your desire for results.

yomammasson · Mar 23, 2015

Spanky's Monkey said:
I will never speak out of my ass with intent. I learned so much here at RIU and I learned just as much at home in my own garden. I'm just looking to help other growers out when I can. I too looked for the fastest turn around but realized that a fast turn around will lead to as many shortcuts as one can procure. These shorcuts will ultimately lead to failures and those failures lead to even longer turn arounds.

If you want the fastest possible turn around you need to look at growing auto-flowers or growing from 12/12. Auto-flowers are an excellent source for rapid results and some strains will offer a good yield. 12/12 is an awesome technique for turn arounds that are nearly as quick as autos and will require a little less strain on the light bill as 12/12 can be run mostly in off peak hours and the 20/4 or 18/6 that autos require will most certainly eat up peak hours raising that light bill even further. A great benefit to autos or 12/12 is that you only need the one grow space.

I run a perpetual grow from seed so I use a veg garden to start my girls off and then I have a seperate flower garden running to finish off the grow season. The setup I run allows me to veg out my plants as I see fit and flower at my convenience. At the moment I have 2 bagseed girls at the end of flower with 2 weeks to go in the flower box. In my veg box I have a Chocoloco fem that has just exited the seedling stage (14days old) and a Punky Lion fem that cracked it's shell and I'm waiting on that girl to break soil. I also have at least 7 bagseed beans in the veg box that once they break soil they will go into the flower box straight under 12/12. It seems like a lot but after a few grows you get it down to the point were you pay attention more to the plants needs and less to your desire for results.

Wow. I could learn a lot. I planned to do 12/12 from seed, but I figured I would do 24 hr for the first month or so to get it established well. How long do you think until 12/12 would take its desired effect as flowering?

Spanky's Monkey · Mar 23, 2015

That really does depend on the plant and it's genetics. My first 12/12 from seed and I had pre-flowers on one girl showing in the first 16 days. Keep in mind regardless of how early you see pre-flowers the plant will still need to reach full maturity before it begins to fully flower. That time frame really cannot be determined by us mere mortals. In my experience with vegging for weeks on end(not 12/12) I've had some girls hit that point in 21 days others took up to 40 days. Generally you can tell when they are adult plants when the growth takes of like a rocket. One day it's a tiny little thing and next thing you know you're literally trying to control how fast she's growing up and out on you in your grow space.

yomammasson · Mar 23, 2015

Spanky's Monkey said:
That really does depend on the plant and it's genetics. My first 12/12 from seed and I had pre-flowers on one girl showing in the first 16 days. Keep in mind regardless of how early you see pre-flowers the plant will still need to reach full maturity before it begins to fully flower. That time frame really cannot be determined by us mere mortals. In my experience with vegging for weeks on end(not 12/12) I've had some girls hit that point in 21 days others took up to 40 days. Generally you can tell when they are adult plants when the growth takes of like a rocket. One day it's a tiny little thing and next thing you know you're literally trying to control how fast she's growing up and out on you in your grow space.

I'm learning something new again. I didn't know that there are pre-flowers prior to maturity. It would help to be able to sex my plant ASAP. Btw, this is G13.

Spanky's Monkey · Mar 23, 2015

yomammasson said:
I'm learning something new again. I didn't know that there are pre-flowers prior to maturity. It would help to be able to sex my plant ASAP. Btw, this is G13.

It's funny the way it works. even though you get the pre-flowers under 12/12 the girl will still enhance her root ball and grow out the upper growth befor you get that cool explosion of pistils and flowers. When I flower my mature plants I get the first set of pre-flowers 7 to 14 days after I move them to 12/12 in the flower box. I have read some really great grow here and you can check out my grow pages for a little info as well.

https://www.rollitup.org/t/spankys-250w-hps-handmade-cab-grow.788531/

yomammasson · Mar 24, 2015

Here's an update after 2 days. The new leaves have straightened up, and the yellowing/browning has stopped its progress! Also, I have been looking online, and idk if this is what worked, but I neglected to say how I watered with my nutes. I watered half the soil. My reasoning was that I knew it would be overwatered if I flooded all the roots, so I gave some nutes to a half, and then I left the other half alone. Seems to have worked!

Rudi I&I Automan · Mar 31, 2015

lol, wait till you sprout a pure sativa and that's perfect for the streach when they start to flower. I tried it when I knew nothing about growing much, I herd 24/0 for growth 12/12 for flower, but I knew little to nowt about indica/satia/rudy, 400 watts of MH light for one plant that near pushed me out of my flat when it was still just between half and 3/4 off finishing, top quality smoke all bar a small after taste of baby bio "yep" baby bio.

yomammasson said:
It seems like these are definitely words to grow by. But my goal is for a quick turn around, and stunted growth is no Bueno. Believe it or not, that plant is probably about 5 or 6 weeks, so it has been stunted plenty. I think I will just leave it alone like you said.

Another thing I didn't mention is that over the week that it got no attention, it grew the most by far compared to any other week time span. That agrees with what you just told me.

well that's a weed for you, less is more, I do laugh over the fuss we make over our basbys when they can take pretty dam good care of themselves

Spanky's Monkey · Apr 15, 2015

How's it grow?

yomammasson · Apr 21, 2015

Well here's an update: I need help again :oops:

.
Disclaimer: My light came loose and fell on my plant last week, so that is why my lower leaves look like dead/burnt. But it survived and the top leaves are the new living ones.
It's been flowering for about 2 weeks, and I am not sure what the issue it with it right now. I have been switching slowly to flowering nutes over the past weeks. It may be underwatered, overwatered? I got the hang of the water needs for the plant in veg, but now I am not sure how much to water in flowering. I heard it is supposed to use more water/nutes. Any help would be appreciated. All the other conditions are the same as before.

Worrying Signs. Yellowing/dying lower leaves with upward curl.

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