Yellowing, brown spots in veg

Posted another thread a week or two back that seemed to hint towards a possible iron,sulfer, or nutrient lockout situation. After a foilar spray with espom salt and a lower ph watering im still getting some yellowing and things dont seem to be getting any better. Any ideas?

I'm a new Grower myself and currently focusing on learning and researching so take what I say with a grain of salt.

You do seem to have signs of multiple deficiencies. Based on that lockout still seems to be a prime suspect to my mind. So I'm going to ask you a few questions.

1. What is your watering frequency and how often do you feed them?

2. What is the pH range you use for watering and what is the pH of the run off?

3. What exactly is your growing medium?

This is entirely a shot in the dark, but I'll say my current guess. Based on the information provided you seem to be attentive to your plants. I'm wondering if you aren't over doing an aspect because of that and accidentally causing lockout. Watering too often or with too many nutrients & not washing the excess out can both lead to lockout in time. So assuming that's a standard soil potting mix supplemented with perlite I'd suggest keeping your pH range ~6.5, watering without nutes and increasing the amount of runoff per watering. I'm guessing the medium has moderate/high fertilizer content and you're adding more nutrients ontop of this, just enough to slowly raise the soil pH and toxicity causing a gradual lockout.

@stimpyc

Ive been watering about every 3-4 days. Waiting till they are dry a knuckle deep and i tend to go one day longer rather than one day shorter. In the past 3 I had very light feedings the first 2 waterings with big bloom, cal mag, and seaweed. the past two weeks have been only water due to these issues arising. Last night I fed a 1/2 feed of big bloom/calmag. As well as an Armor SI spray due to one plant having a small powder mildew spot on a stem.

Ph run off has stayed between 6.3-6.6. I have been watering right around 6.3

Fox Farms Ocean Forest with a 20% mix of perlite is my medium.

I feel like there is no way im watering too often due to letting them dry out before watering. I want them to want the water. Also watering until 10-20% runoff everytime.

After your response I agree, over watering is more or less ruled out.

I'm going to spend some time researching as I'm curious now and if I find anything I'll definitely inform you. As far as I'm aware Oceans Forest is a very solid base, and with everything you've said now it seems doubtful to be a simple answer. To be blunt, with all that you've said if that was the case it seems like you would have found the answer and corrected it by now.

What does your RH typically sit around - I see in one of the pictures it's at 35%, is that about average? I ask because a few days ago I read about a type of fungus similar to PM that can cause more or less the entire range of symptoms from what I remember.

Chlorosis starting in the veins, and looks like starting with new growth and moving down. Most likely an immobile nutrient. I'll do some research.

I am new as well, so would like to know why you are using Bloom nutes with no flowers? Like to learn peoples tricks

What light you using? Definitely some Sativa in those leaves, so the light can’t be too bad because the node spacing doesn’t seem extremely far apart

ebcrew said:

Chlorosis starting in the veins, and looks like starting with new growth and moving down. Most likely an immobile nutrient. I'll do some research.

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I appreciate that big time man. Feel like im getting no where! Lots of people guessing and taking stabs at it which i REALLY appreciate, but seems to be some back and forth on what it is.

Powertech said:

I am new as well, so would like to know why you are using Bloom nutes with no flowers? Like to learn peoples tricks

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Big Bloom is for the entire grow cycle, Tiger Bloom is for flowering, Grow big is for veg. I was told to use big bloom right now while im having problems because its very light on nutes.

Also using an LED board 550w from kingbrite turned up about half way.

The fungus I was thinking of is called Cannabis Septoria, but after researching it's clearly not the issue. Wasn't aware of how it presents itself and you clearly don't have the main symptoms.

I'm starting to think perhaps you have an excess of Iron. It competes with manganese and other micros so at first you would see signs of deficiency related to them. That would explain dark spots/patchiness & why your treatments are having little effect, as with each treatment you are also increasing the iron content.

Are you using distilled water? Either way, looking into Fox Farm Ocean Forest Soil and based on what you've done I don't see anything that should be lacking. Could be wrong though - still a lot to learn!

@stimpyc Interesting.. most replies people mentioning iron say it looks like a deficiency, not an excess. But I do agree I have leaned towards iron or sulfur being an issue. The two weeks of pure water didnt seem to clear things up, think it could take longer?

I am not using distilled water. I am however letting the water sit 24-48 hours to de-chlorinate. Thanks for the response man. Appreciate all the help. Seems like this issue is confusing everyone..

@notoriouscheech Well, you said you were treating with Cal-Mag and as far as I'm aware all Cal-Mag products also contain Iron. Since you are also using a good quality potting mix with it's own ferts, I'm just doubting a standard deficiency. Clearly this could be a case of lack of experience and I'm entirely wrong and talking out of my ass.

I would switch over to using only distilled water for now, still pH'd in the ~6.5 range and continue your regular regimen. If it's an excess then switching to distilled would allow proper uptake of the other micros and I would assume some progress would be shortly made. Again, I can't really say since I'm lacking first hand experience.

Hopefully someone with more knowledge can come along and guide you better man, I wish you the best of luck for sure.

Your Big Bloom is K leaning...your Armor Si is K leaning...I wonder if your soil is K leaning as well (conveniently FoxFarm doesn't say what makes up their soil, or I couldn't find it)...and your plant isn't in flower. Perhaps you're over on K which is causing you issues with other nutrients? Good luck friend.

@stimpyc I appreciate the advice and honesty man. Im open to all things at this point. What would switching to distilled help with out of curiosity? I do leave my water sit to de chlorinate and have fairly clean water in my area, is there another reason to go distilled? I can make it happen but seems like buying jugs of it will add up quite quick. Assuming I will need about 2 jugs per watering every 3-4 days.

@CannaCountry Noted. I havnt watered with Armor Si but one time if im not mistaken. This is a great observation though. Maybe i am pumping it with too much K. Big bloom is what the feeding schedule is telling me to use though from seedlings to finish. Why is that? Should i be using grow big instead which is even higher in K if im not mistaken?

Hopefully someone can help clear this up because its quite confusing me, Ive been mentioned twice to now not to use Big Bloom but to follow the feeding schedule, Fox Farms soil feeding schedule states to use big bloom from seedlings and on. Should i be using it or should i not?

Picture updates from last night. Still yellowing going on and some slightly brown/dry spots. Would ya'll suggest i feed again? No signs of nutrient burn.

I think you need some grow big in that schedule even though you have something out of the ordinary going on. I guess if it was me I would flush them all out with 3 or 4 times the container size then mix fresh veg nutes, 2 or 3 tsp per gal grow big and 1 or 2 tbsp of big bloom.

boybelue said:

I think you need some grow big in that schedule even though you have something out of the ordinary going on. I guess if it was me I would flush them all out with 3 or 4 times the container size then mix fresh veg nutes, 2 or 3 tsp per gal grow big and 1 or 2 tbsp of big bloom.

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I have been thinking i need to add more grow big as well actually. Its not nute burn, and i have been adding very light on just cal mag/big bloom/seaweed which arent too heavy in their own rights.

Would you suggest flushing once then waiting till my next watering to feed? my last 3 waterings were small feed/water/small feed. They will be ready to water tonight im thinking. Or should i just feed again with a little grow big?

The flush would be just to give you a little bit of a clean slate, which may not be necessary, but just in case anything is outta balance. Then feed to run off to help flush it on out. I wouldn't add anything that isn't necessary until you get past this. If you do a good flush I'd go with 3tsp grow big and 2tblp big bloom per gallon. If you don't flush just try the grow big alone. Again this is just what I would try from what little bit of info I've read and the pics. I would do the flush though just in case you have an imbalance.

@boybelue I might not go for the flush but i will look things over again and think more on it. Better safe than sorry I suppose and plenty of plants live without nothing. I feel like things are only getting worse even when i did flush with two waterings. Noted, thanks for the replies and advice i really appreciate it.

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Manganese (Mn) Micronutrient and Immobile Element