Yes On 19 Here's Why!

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vradd

Active Member
WOW! These prop 19 posts are so intense... I love marijuana not propaganda! I'm still voting yes!
thats what this is here for, to ask and get some real questions not these bullshit q&a's that are printed out by both sides that seem to be aimed at the ignorant.
if veggie wanted to share is story thats cool, kinda helps better understand his side of the argument when its put into example.

if your saying that the big business is trying to cut out the home grower than why dont they just form a union? contract out special growers.
 

tc1

Well-Known Member
Here's the entire section with regards to commercial regulations. I'll tell you what I think in bold... but read it for yourself and decide what you think it means personally.


Section 11301: Commercial Regulations and Controls
Notwithstanding any other provision of state or local law, a local government may adopt ordinances, regulations, or other acts having the force of law to control, license, regulate, permit or otherwise authorize, with conditions, the following:mericial regulations and controls.
(a) cultivation, processing, distribution, the safe and secure transportation, sale and possession for sale of cannabis, but only by persons and in amounts lawfully authorized;
(b) retail sale of not more than one ounce per transaction, in licensed premises, to persons 21 years or older, for personal consumption and not for resale;
(c) appropriate controls on cultivation, transportation, sales, and consumption of cannabis to strictly prohibit access to cannabis by persons under the age of 21;
(d) age limits and controls to ensure that all persons present in, employed by, or in any way involved in the operation of, any such licensed premises are 21 or older;


If a city wants to legalize the sale of marijuana, they may do so ... but only up to 1 ounce per transaction. Buyer must be 21 or older as well as anyone working for the seller.


(e) consumption of cannabis within licensed premises;

Cities can license businesses to allow smoking of marijuana in their establishment. aKa "Bud Bars"

(f) safe and secure transportation of cannabis from a licensed premises for cultivation or processing, to a licensed premises for sale or on-premises consumption of cannabis;
(g) prohibit and punish through civil fines or other remedies the possession, sale, possession for sale, cultivation, processing, or transportation of cannabis that was not obtained lawfully from a person pursuant to this section or section 11300;


You must transport commercial marijuana from one licensed place to another for sale. You can be busted by the city if you obtain marijuana illegally for resale.

(h) appropriate controls on licensed premises for sale, cultivation, processing, or sale and on-premises consumption, of cannabis, including limits on zoning and land use, locations, size, hours of operation, occupancy, protection of adjoining and nearby properties and persons from unwanted exposure, advertising, signs and displays, and other controls necessary for protection of the public health and welfare;

A city can control the zoning, hours, size and advertising of a marijuana store. (They have the power to do this to ANY business already).

(i) appropriate environmental and public health controls to ensure that any licensed premises minimizes any harm to the environment, adjoining and nearby landowners, and persons passing by;

A city has the right to make sure you are not disturbing the environment or nearby businesses or home owners. (Smoke, smell, proper waste management, etc)

(j) appropriate controls to restrict public displays, or public consumption of cannabis;
(k) appropriate taxes or fees pursuant to section 11302;


A city can choose to keep the sale of marijuana out of plain view. A city can still tax thus said marijuana.

(l) such larger amounts as the local authority deems appropriate and proper under local circumstances, than those established under section 11300(a) for personal possession and cultivation, or under this section for commercial cultivation, processing, transportation and sale by persons authorized to do so under this section;

A city has the right to allow you to grow more than 25square feet of marijuana and buy more than 1 ounce at a time due to circumstances they deem fit.
(m) any other appropriate controls necessary for protection of the public health and welfare.
Section 11302: Imposition and Collection of Taxes and Fees
(a) Any ordinance, regulation or other act adopted pursuant to section 11301 may include imposition of appropriate general, special or excise, transfer or transaction taxes, benefit assessments, or fees, on any activity authorized pursuant to such enactment, in order to permit the local government to raise revenue, or to recoup any direct or indirect costs associated with the authorized activity, or the permitting or licensing scheme, including without limitation: administration; applications and issuance of licenses or permits; inspection of licensed premises and other enforcement of ordinances adopted under section 11301, including enforcement against unauthorized activities.

Cities can tax marijuana, create license fees, and use those funds to enforce the laws.

(b) Any licensed premises shall be responsible for paying all federal, state and local taxes, fees, fines, penalties or other financial responsibility imposed on all or similarly situated businesses, facilities or premises, including without limitation income taxes, business taxes, license fees, and property taxes, without regard to or identification of the business or items or services sold.


Licensed marijuana businesses are required to pay their taxes.
 

tc1

Well-Known Member
Sure, mate.... you go right on believing that. The alcohol reference is just the icing on the ignorance cake. Carry on....bongsmilie

Care to expand on that retort?

What part of Prop 19 states you wont be able to buy your marijuana from licensed marijuana sellers ... big or small? (Just like beer, tobacco, apples, or hamburgers)
 

TokinPodPilot

Well-Known Member
thats what this is here for, to ask and get some real questions not these bullshit q&a's that are printed out by both sides that seem to be aimed at the ignorant.
if veggie wanted to share is story thats cool, kinda helps better understand his side of the argument when its put into example.

if your saying that the big business is trying to cut out the home grower than why dont they just form a union? contract out special growers.
You mean like the union that the big operators in Oakland are forming? Seriously, mate... this is history repeating itself. Big business, for lack of a better term, is about profits. They've failed the public trust with every industry they've been able to secure "regulation" over. The proponents of 19 like to say that nothing bad can come of "regulation". I shudder to think of the lives lost and health endangered by "regulated" industries. To date, pot has a zero fatality record. I don't really think it's too far-fetched to consider that some crap factory grow could release a bad batch of product that either ends up hurting or killing someone. It won't matter at that point that it was the mildew that was missed on the buds or the crap residue left in the end product. It's rarely ever, if not never, the organic grower/farmer that starts a salmonella outbreak... it's the intensive production farm using "cost-effective" methods. Large scale intensive operations don't deserve a chance to screw up cannabis. We should be working to build the network of small and medium growers and putting them in contact with patients. We should be working to alter people's perceptions of cannabis and encourage expansion of the patient/public-friendly medical cannabis programs. People need to understand that Prop. 215 is for ANYONE. Not just people with dire medical conditions. Anyone and everyone that derives any benefit to quality of life, be it long or short term, is entitled to seek a doctor's recommendation to use cannabis. Prop 19 doesn't build a responsible and beneficial system of growers and clients, it just gives large-scale currently illegitimate operations a means to pay their way out of illegality. These are the same types of people that both sides of the Prop. 19 have complained about, and we just handed them get-out-of-jail-free card to repay their douchey behavior of price gouging. These are also the same ones that will have no problem uprooting themselves and their operations to move to whatever community decides to cash in on the green rush. The majority of small/medium growers, who'll typically have ties to their communities, will most likely have to face an all-out ban from the powers that be, or as is often typical of government types, exorbitant operational fees and usage taxes that make it almost impossible to maintain anything less than an economy-of-scale operation.
 

tc1

Well-Known Member
You mean like the union that the big operators in Oakland are forming? Seriously, mate... this is history repeating itself. Big business, for lack of a better term, is about profits. They've failed the public trust with every industry they've been able to secure "regulation" over. The proponents of 19 like to say that nothing bad can come of "regulation". I shudder to think of the lives lost and health endangered by "regulated" industries. To date, pot has a zero fatality record. I don't really think it's too far-fetched to consider that some crap factory grow could release a bad batch of product that either ends up hurting or killing someone. It won't matter at that point that it was the mildew that was missed on the buds or the crap residue left in the end product. It's rarely ever, if not never, the organic grower/farmer that starts a salmonella outbreak... it's the intensive production farm using "cost-effective" methods. Large scale intensive operations don't deserve a chance to screw up cannabis. We should be working to build the network of small and medium growers and putting them in contact with patients. We should be working to alter people's perceptions of cannabis and encourage expansion of the patient/public-friendly medical cannabis programs. People need to understand that Prop. 215 is for ANYONE. Not just people with dire medical conditions. Anyone and everyone that derives any benefit to quality of life, be it long or short term, is entitled to seek a doctor's recommendation to use cannabis. Prop 19 doesn't build a responsible and beneficial system of growers and clients, it just gives large-scale currently illegitimate operations a means to pay their way out of illegality. These are the same types of people that both sides of the Prop. 19 have complained about, and we just handed them get-out-of-jail-free card to repay their douchey behavior of price gouging. These are also the same ones that will have no problem uprooting themselves and their operations to move to whatever community decides to cash in on the green rush. The majority of small/medium growers, who'll typically have ties to their communities, will most likely have to face an all-out ban from the powers that be, or as is often typical of government types, exorbitant operational fees and usage taxes that make it almost impossible to maintain anything less than an economy-of-scale operation.

Under Prop 19 ... commercial growers and sellers must follow Health and Safety codes by LAW. Meaning ... they are held to stricter standards with regarding to public safety than you would be held with your own personal grow.

But seriously man .... ? "Bad batch of marijuana" lol Sounds like the same scare tactics the government use to throw to the uneducated public. Where's all the bad batches of cigarettes? Where's all the bad batches of Jack Daniels?
You know why there aren't any? Because if there were ... the government would come down so HARD on them and SO MANY lawsuits would be filed, that they'd be lucky to stay in business. Commercial marijuana growers wont be any different.


Prop 215 is NOT for anyone ... and if people would have said that in 1996 .. it would have NEVER been passed. Period. Remember all the "Don't send the sick and dieing cancer patients to jail for using marijuana as medicine" campaigns? I Do
Do you remember the "Medical marijuana is for EVERYONE" campaigns? I sure as hell don't.

If you say medical marijuana is for everyone, you single handily undermine the intent and moral standing people have regarding medical marijuana. Now I happen to agree that marijuana has medicinal benefits that everyone can take advantage of. But that ISN'T the purpose of Prop 215.

Saying medical marijuana is for everyone only ensures that people will think twice about "sending sick and dieing people to jail for marijuana" because they'll see it as a scam and excuse for perfectly healthy people "to get high" ... regardless if really sick people TRULY need it or not. I mean ... that was PART of the uphill battle with medicinal marijuana in the first place. And now you want to CONFIRM their fears that it wasn't to prevent sick people from going to jail, but so everyone could legally get high? Now THAT right there will absolutely damage the medical marijuana movement.

Prop 19 doesn't build a responsible and beneficial system of growers and clients? Do you want Prop 19 to do your dishes and clean your car as well? Prop 19 legalizes the possession, cultivation, transportation, and sale of marijuana. That's the intent of Prop 19 ... nothing more ... nothing less. It leaves commercial regulatory and tax legislation up to local government (aka local citizens)to decide.

If you don't like how your city is regulating and taxing marijuana ... get out there and let them know about. Contact your local NORML chapter and stay in the face of your major and counsel members until they cave. Much more effective than having to write a letter to your state representative (that they'll never read) or Obama (that he'll never read).



Some people are so paranoid and overly cautious that they fail to see that any direction that points to keeping responsible adults out of jail for marijuana is a step in the RIGHT direction.

And saying "medical marijuana is for everyone" when the entire movement was built on the idea that sick and dieing people shouldn't be thrown in jail for using marijuana as medicine is a VERY dangerous road to travel. If you tell voters and politicians that they've been duped ... be prepared to see medical rights being taken away.

I can see it now ... "SEE! WE TOLD YOU! Medical marijuana is just an excuse for anyone to get high ... regardless if they have a medical condition!" Trust me ... you don't want to go there.
 

vradd

Active Member
wow bud bars?
well their goes the use of hookah bars. (even tho i never believed in those)

im curious as to why the official balloting packet with all the measures for this NOV doesnt have any of THAT fine print you just posted?!?!

i also am completely aware of history repeating itself. this is the same exact thing happened with tobacco. and in some ways thats why i really dont mind it. is it right? fuck no but if it has the slightest chance to make a positive impact to these political nuts who've lead the war based on pure propoganda then im for it. hell the state could actually make money off this and maybe just MAYBE it would trickle to us common folk some how with stimulus' or job opportunities. i know tahts all a long shot, but we became a nation because people stood up against the queen and wanted to have freedom from tyranny and taxation. well damnit we gotta start somewhere. i always hear talk about oh dont pass this wait till 2012 for xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and who knows maybe something big will happen then, but all i care about is the now. if something good could come from this that benefits the masses then why not? does happyness have to cost something? fuck yea. its life. why should we hide behind a card to be happy? its like being labled for something thats my god given right to have. if this gets turned down in NOV, then i can also live with that but at least we will all know those who tried, TRIED.

**and when i say god given right, i mean in the sense that people are forgetting this is still JUST a plant that scientifically cannot kill you. and no coco plants dont count, that crap gets chemically treated to change the properties.
 

TokinPodPilot

Well-Known Member
Gotcha. Can't see past the end of your nose. No problem. Feels grand about the precedent of big tobacco and still believes in trickle-down economics. Here, I thought you were actually seeking answers. You can sit there and say "Woe is me... it's just the way it is", the rest of us have work to do. Once again, voting in bad legislation with the thought that you can later "alter" the proposition to correct problems... just wow. Alluding to the anti-taxation cry while in promotion of of an ambiguous taxation bill... that's just epic hypocrisy. :clap:
 

tc1

Well-Known Member
Gotcha. Can't see past the end of your nose. No problem. Feels grand about the precedent of big tobacco and still believes in trickle-down economics. Here, I thought you were actually seeking answers. You can sit there and say "Woe is me... it's just the way it is", the rest of us have work to do. Once again, voting in bad legislation with the thought that you can later "alter" the proposition to correct problems... just wow. Alluding to the anti-taxation cry while in promotion of of an ambiguous taxation bill... that's just epic hypocrisy. :clap:

And keep telling people medical marijuana is for everyone and watch as your medical rights get taken away ....

You act as if Prop 215 can't be changed. Enough people hear "mmj is for everyone" and I GUARANTEE it will.

Thumbing your nose at abusing the system will ultimately force the system to change. More EXCLUSION ... More RESTRICTIONS ... and less CHOICES.
 

tc1

Well-Known Member
im curious as to why the official balloting packet with all the measures for this NOV doesnt have any of THAT fine print you just posted?!?!

Couldn't tell you ... but when you go to vote you'll be able to read the the proposition in full. Of course, you can read online now if you wish.
 

tc1

Well-Known Member
Good and baseless statement. This desperation of yours is quite amusing.bongsmilie

True or False.

The Medical Marijuana Movement has based their argument around the idea that people with ailments should not be jailed for using marijuana as medicine? True

True or False.

The Medical Marijuana Movement has based their argument around the idea that EVERYONE should be allowed to use medical marijuana. Really? Is that why they have a list of acceptable ailments? Because ANYONE can use medical marijuana? Yeah .. it's False.

Your statement undermines the intent of Prop 215 and is mentioned no where in 11362.5
Pure ... unequivocal ... fact.

You can keep going on and on with pointless talking points but it doesn't change reality.
I'm saying the sky is blue and you're peeing on my leg telling me the sky is purple. Good grief ..
 

TokinPodPilot

Well-Known Member
And so you can't read either. Awesome. Oh well... the final clause of conditions covered by 215 is pretty plain to read. Since you can't or won't read beyond the surface of this obviously crap bill, I can't really expect that you'd figure out Prop 215, either. Especially in light of the sheer nonsense you spout about what is or isn't protected under law. But, keep spouting ignorance... it's fantastic to know the opposition is just that dense.
 

tc1

Well-Known Member
And so you can't read either. Awesome. Oh well... the final clause of conditions covered by 215 is pretty plain to read. Since you can't or won't read beyond the surface of this obviously crap bill, I can't really expect that you'd figure out Prop 215, either. Especially in light of the sheer nonsense you spout about what is or isn't protected under law. But, keep spouting ignorance... it's fantastic to know the opposition is just that dense.

And once again. Prop 19 does not supersede Prop 215 nor does it state as such in ANY part of Prop 19.

Prop 215 = Medical
Prop 19 = Recreational

Anywhoo .... it's bed time for me or else I'm a dead fish in water at work tomorrow.


Peace and Pot to all!
 
Prop 19 is basically just a way to commercialize the industry to make it easier to tax on all ends. It limits the amount that each grower can grow, and would place severe penalties for even selling small amounts to friends. This puts you in a bad place if you have a higher tolerance or like a lot of variety. Growing also takes a considerable amount of time, effort, and money to do correctly and many people cannot grow year round. It's really obvious that Prop 19 is just trying to squeeze the small growers out and turn it all commercial.

No on Prop 19!
 

tc1

Well-Known Member
Prop 19 is basically just a way to commercialize the industry to make it easier to tax on all ends. It limits the amount that each grower can grow, and would place severe penalties for even selling small amounts to friends. This puts you in a bad place if you have a higher tolerance or like a lot of variety. Growing also takes a considerable amount of time, effort, and money to do correctly and many people cannot grow year round. It's really obvious that Prop 19 is just trying to squeeze the small growers out and turn it all commercial.

No on Prop 19!

Are you able to sell homemade liquor? Nope. Not without a license anyway. Sound familiar?

Forcing people who wish to sell alcohol buy a license has not prevented "the little guy" from making alcohol, nor has it prevented "the little guy" from selling it to the public.

Prop 19 treats marijuana like alcohol and that's ok with me, just as long as I can smoke it and grow it without going to jail.
 

vradd

Active Member
Prop 19 is basically just a way to commercialize the industry to make it easier to tax on all ends. It limits the amount that each grower can grow, and would place severe penalties for even selling small amounts to friends. This puts you in a bad place if you have a higher tolerance or like a lot of variety. Growing also takes a considerable amount of time, effort, and money to do correctly and many people cannot grow year round. It's really obvious that Prop 19 is just trying to squeeze the small growers out and turn it all commercial.

No on Prop 19!
well if the small grower wasnt so selfish and trying to make a huge profit off people MAYBE they prop would be written different. if the dispensaries werent making a huge profit in the name of compassion, maybe the bill would be written differently.

if you know your history you will know that EVERYTHING here in the states has been commericialized. its what we are known for in the western hemisphere.

maybe if people werent flipping thousands of dollars from their house it would be written differently, but the truth is its written this way for a reason. people complain that the DEA will have every right now to come in, but dont you think the higher people havent already took everything into consideration?

if u dont want pot to be regulated then go out and campaign against dispensaries mark ups!

if u dont like when it becomes legal and they tax the crap out of it, get out to your local govt and campaign against it. remember this bill is just to give power to local govt. so ultimately if it passes its going to come on to the people to vote something.

one thing i will say, everyone who has posted a negative response has YET to post any statements of facts, only self opinions. so to me that shows either someones wanting to keep their profits OR someone needs to go back and read the prop again because it still has yet to say anything over medicinal.

so cmon guys! seems all the pros for pot have no problem putting up actual text from the prop to back their fight up.
 

vradd

Active Member
notice how everyone who says no seems to be from central cal and up lol... what are you guys hiding up their? i mean i know the north is known for grows but wow yall seem to be digging a deeper and deeper ditch with no ladder of truth.
 
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