RawBudzski
Well-Known Member
I ditched foxfarm a couple weeks ago, only use the soil now. I figure if you are going to grow organically in soil, forget the bottled nutes and get the raw materials to make a strong soil or feed with teas.
Yield organic vs chemical nutes?
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scroglodyte
Well-Known Member
synthetic super-phosphates are the devil's work!
they sure do yield large, though.
they sure do yield large, though.
NightbirdX
Well-Known Member
You know its funny. I've always been told that hydro will typically yield a lot more, but from what I've seen, I've been holding my own with organic grow compared to my buddies hydro runs. We run some of the same strains and I actually get a better product and yeild from some of them, but the difference is where I have some plants that give me 3 oz's and my highest was 5 oz's. They will have 2-4 oz avg, but they always get a couple freak plants that will break out with 8-9 oz/plant, lol.
NightbirdX
Well-Known Member
The thing about Fox Farm is that you need to innoculate with a mycorhizzae every 3 weeks or so. I started with FF in Pro-Mix and my buddy did the same. I had problems with FF so switched to BioCanna, but he stuck with FF. When he started innoculating every 3 weeks it really started to take off. Be sure to use filtered water if you run the soil. The chlorine and Chloramines really do kill off the microbes and without those, growing in soil is about useless. And for that matter so does the chem pH up and down. I suggested that my buddy switch to Earth Juice's Natural up and down and he did. So basically as long as you keep the rhizosphere happy you'll do well with FF. But remember that all the chems do kill the microbes, so be sure to reapply your microbes regularly.
Snafu1236
Well-Known Member
Another question asked, another misdirected RIU response. Sigh.
Let me answer you.
My belief is synthetic nutrients is a man-made up way of agriculture that cannot compare to organics in finished product.
With that being said; synthetics do have a tendency to grow plants quicker and heavier in general. However, master organic gardeners can pull serious yields off their organic bushes using the right methods, while having a much more sought-after connoiseur quality end result.
I will not smoke anything used with synethetics, wont even look at hydro. I wont even smoke unless i know it is organically grown.
I mean, your putting this into your body--itshould be the cleanest you can make it.
Your body's a temple, man.
Let me answer you.
My belief is synthetic nutrients is a man-made up way of agriculture that cannot compare to organics in finished product.
With that being said; synthetics do have a tendency to grow plants quicker and heavier in general. However, master organic gardeners can pull serious yields off their organic bushes using the right methods, while having a much more sought-after connoiseur quality end result.
I will not smoke anything used with synethetics, wont even look at hydro. I wont even smoke unless i know it is organically grown.
I mean, your putting this into your body--itshould be the cleanest you can make it.
Your body's a temple, man.
Snafu1236
Well-Known Member
Any use of 'chems' immediately make it a non-organic grow.The thing about Fox Farm is that you need to innoculate with a mycorhizzae every 3 weeks or so. I started with FF in Pro-Mix and my buddy did the same. I had problems with FF so switched to BioCanna, but he stuck with FF. When he started innoculating every 3 weeks it really started to take off. Be sure to use filtered water if you run the soil. The chlorine and Chloramines really do kill off the microbes and without those, growing in soil is about useless. And for that matter so does the chem pH up and down. I suggested that my buddy switch to Earth Juice's Natural up and down and he did. So basically as long as you keep the rhizosphere happy you'll do well with FF. But remember that all the chems do kill the microbes, so be sure to reapply your microbes regularly.
I wouldn't use Fox Farms. Reapplication of mycorrhizal spores is not entirelynecessary if you provide the microherd for sustainability. Use your own natural Aact instead of Fox Farms and grow better plants for cheaper and more tailored for taste.
NightbirdX
Well-Known Member
I agree to some extent. I too only grow 100% organically, mostly veganically to be more clear. I do this because I grow for personal and for my patients, so I grow the cleanest product that I can.
That being said, this is the age old rivalry. Each method has it's merits and I have had great Hydro, and terrible organic. The quality comes from the grower, not the nutrient line or method of growing. You can get fabulous results from each method. I suggest to anyone who wants to grow, find a method that works for them and tweak it to suit you. While I am not a huge fan of hydro, I can appreciate properly grown cannabis and am not too much of a snob to not smoke with my buddies who grow hydro, though I do prefer to smoke my own organically grown(, and so do they, lol...)
Snafu1236
Well-Known Member
To accurately determine organics vs synthetics, you
need to run a controlled experiment using the same genetic clones.
Different strains/seeds/ phenotypes will all vary your results unless you ise stabilized, multi generational clones.
NightbirdX
Well-Known Member
They are the same genetic clones. The NYC cut I run is the same from the same mother that my buddies are. I actually yield more and get a better quality product. But on other plants that suffer under my system, thrive in theirs and I've seen them pull 9 oz from a clone that I was able to get 2 oz of schwag from.
scroglodyte
Well-Known Member
i keep a hot super soil in a barrel, and mix with peat/coco and expanded clays. i feed with teas, and side-dress with the residue from the tea-making process. my only nute expenditure is when i need some humic acid, lime, greensand, etc. i use a urine water mix to brew my tea. i feel bad enough using electricity (burning oil or coal,let's call it what it is) to grow, so i try to be as sustainable as i can with the rest of it. and.....i'm broke.
Snafu1236
Well-Known Member
Awesome! You should post a thread on that comparison grow, i am very interested to check it all out!
NightbirdX
Well-Known Member
Agreed. I know that any use of chems makes it a non organic grow. I wouldn't use FF either. I started with it and ran it next to my Bio-Canna run until I switched fully over to my BioCanna regimen. But like I said, to each his own. I've seen great FF grown product, and I've seen bad. I've seen Great organic, and I"ve seen some real bad organic.
Most people i've met who grow "organic" havent taken the time to check their "organic" products and typically have a few organic products that aren't necessarily "organic." It's pretty interesting to look at your products and find out what is organic and what is not, lol. There were a few things i weeded (no pun intended
) out of my system after I found they were not organic.
NightbirdX
Well-Known Member
I am actually going to be doing a hydro run here soon. I just like to know as much as I can about growing, so I figured I'd put a foot into the water to try it out and learn more about it. When I do, NYC is def one of the strains I'd like to run in it.
RawBudzski
Well-Known Member
So aged tap water is no good? I hate refilling the 5gal jugs -_-
NightbirdX
Well-Known Member
I personally would no. you could aerate your tap water for awhile, but that still doesnt get out the chloramines. If you plan on growing for awhile, invest in a water filter and buy the kdf85 filter with it also
dante76
Active Member
hey nightbirdx! I'm doing an organic grow now and started using that whiteshark/greatwhite benefiical microbe poweder in my feed. Wasn't sure if in a previous post if you said Ph down/up kill the microbes (???).
Please confirm. I've been using the ph up/down. Should i stop and just add my stuff to the water and not bother with ph'ing my water at feeding and watering? I don't use nutes but just super soil.
thanks
Please confirm. I've been using the ph up/down. Should i stop and just add my stuff to the water and not bother with ph'ing my water at feeding and watering? I don't use nutes but just super soil.
thanks
NightbirdX
Well-Known Member
The chem pH up and down does. If you had to add it, I would say use the Earthjuice natural up and down in an organic grow. Are you filtering your water? I filter mine and it leaves it right at pH 7. Which I believe Subcool says to keep your water pH'd to around that. I always suggest getting a reservoir, airstones, and a good filter if you plan on growing for awhile. You can skimp it for around 200 bucks. Get a good filter and the kdf85 upgrade, you'll thank me later. :
dante76
Active Member
yes, i'm filtering my water, i've got the RO 100 with the KDF85 filter but I notice that when I add things like superthrive, molasses, great white, it lowers the ph to about 5.5/6. Anything below 6.0 i usually like to use some ph up.
If airstones enrich water with more o2 then doesn't that kill the benefial bacteria?
hyphae
Member
not really, look at the back of the label and tell me what if anything is derived from an organic source
axionjaxson
Well-Known Member
beware the fancy artwork brands, cause thats what they charge for.