You won't solve my 600W HPS Bubbler grow issue

Here is the setup of my FIRST DWC grow:

600W HPS light.
Five, 5 gallon buckets.
2 SDA530 air pumps with air stones (1 supplying two buckets, the other supplying three)
Humidity fluctuates from 25%-45%
Temperature fluctuates from 79-90 F
All started from feminized seeds 18.5 days ago (germination day)
Water level is halfway between the bottom of the nets and the top (is this the problem??)

Used 150PPM of Dyna-gro "GROW" at pH of 6 for the first seedling week running with 24/7 light. They were growing VERYYY slow and looked nutrient deficient so I upped it to 350PPM (same pH) for 3-4 days and switched the light to 18/6. They were STILL looking nutrient deficient (Yellow new growth and 2 leaves yellowing with green veins on all the plants). I then upped it to 750PPM at same pH and its been like that for about 3-4 days. They are growing their new sets of leaves VERYYY slowly and are still only about 1-2 inches tall.

Been using 1 teaspoon of Superthrive per bucket.
Been using tap water to fill each bucket (Consisted of ~45PPM)
Have flushed 3 times since start
First added 2.5 teaspoons of Epsom Salt yesterday and added 2.5 more an hour ago (thought it was a sulfur or mg deficiency)

What are wrong with my girls????

I doubt they had a deficiency, honestly I've never seen nutes successfully given to a first week seedling. 750ppm is almost max for veg depending on your ec conversion factor, which is ?

Water level shouldn't be a problem, but lower it to just below the netpot as the roots reach the water.

im a soil guy, but if nothing else as a bump...ppms sound way high for their size and age. and every seed ive sprung was 24/0 for at least 2 weeks. I run and veg 24/0 always. they look burnt or locked out more than hungry. good luck man

Also just noticed that it's your thread asking about dyna-gro ph. That chart even tells you the ppm to follow. And it's somewhat common knowledge that the manufacturers prescribe a much stronger concentration than needed, so most people start of at 1/4 strength and work up to full strength. But even that's not starting until week 2-3 at least.

ummm, im going out a limb here because im not entirely sure. i hope some other chime in and correct me if im wrong.

my new growth is almost always a bit yellow/lime, especially when its growing very fast. it gets darker green as it ages and the leaves open fully. now from my exp if your N is too low it will be your old growth that yellows first, not the new growth. well sure if its extreme it might hit the new also but not that early. now low N is not the only thing that with cause a plant to yellow, and actually almost everything that can go wrong with a plant leads to it yellowing.

i think you are burning them up..... and the more nutes you add at this point the worse it will get most likely. i have never.... yeah never.... seen a plant that small that couldn't get enough nutes from just water at that size, my plants are normally 2 to 3 times that size b4 they begin to show and need for nutes, and even then i give them a 1/10 - 1/4 mix for a week or so.

i would empty the res and flush them and start with a 1/8 strength nute mix for transplant or veg.


and one final tip that alot of ppl will disagree with me on but oh well. i wouldn't used rockwool for seeds. It works great for clones but i have used it for seeds a few times b4 and was not impressed. peat pucks, rapid rooters, and coor pucks all work great and have contained in them small amounts of nutes that work great for seedlings. they will take care of a 3 to 4" plant perfectly fine with just water.

mrclean420 said:

Here is the setup of my FIRST DWC grow:

600W HPS light.
Five, 5 gallon buckets.
2 SDA530 air pumps with air stones (1 supplying two buckets, the other supplying three)
Humidity fluctuates from 25%-45%
Temperature fluctuates from 79-90 F
All started from feminized seeds 18.5 days ago (germination day)
Water level is halfway between the bottom of the nets and the top (is this the problem??)

Used 150PPM of Dyna-gro "GROW" at pH of 6 for the first seedling week running with 24/7 light. They were growing VERYYY slow and looked nutrient deficient so I upped it to 350PPM (same pH) for 3-4 days and switched the light to 18/6. They were STILL looking nutrient deficient (Yellow new growth and 2 leaves yellowing with green veins on all the plants). I then upped it to 750PPM at same pH and its been like that for about 3-4 days. They are growing their new sets of leaves VERYYY slowly and are still only about 1-2 inches tall.

Been using 1 teaspoon of Superthrive per bucket.
Been using tap water to fill each bucket (Consisted of ~45PPM)
Have flushed 3 times since start
First added 2.5 teaspoons of Epsom Salt yesterday and added 2.5 more an hour ago (thought it was a sulfur or mg deficiency)

What are wrong with my girls????


View attachment 1994951
View attachment 1994973
View attachment 1994975
View attachment 1994978
View attachment 1994982
View attachment 1994984
View attachment 1994986
View attachment 1994988

Click to expand...

HEY MRCLEAN.....

I have to say that you are going to have a few problems with your set up....

1......you need to give those seeds some baby food for a while like a little bit of clonex...or just ph'd water until they get a few leafs going....

2......Lower the water level...1" under net pot...will work....just hand water until roots hit the water...I don't like rock wool but plenty of people do...

3.....You need to lower the temp some how...I keep mine between 65-80f

I think they are suffering from maybe several things right now....IMO

PH of 6.0 is OK but keep an eye on it.....I wouldn't give them any salt they are to young to know what they want...just water or baby food.....nitro

much tooo early for food as others have said, not running hydro, but thats a fact

Firstly, thanks everyone for your input.

@mike, I don't have an EC meter unfortunately, only TDS and pH .

I just finished diluting and lowering the water level in all buckets. They are now ~1 inch below the net pots and about 360PPM. This includes superthrive and the Epsom salt I'm assuming (DILUTED, did not flush nor did I add more nutes). I also adjusted the pH of all the buckets to 5.8. I opened up the room window also to allow the cold winter air to allow the tent to cool to a lower temperature.
Also I forgot to mention the rockwools I used were larger than standard size, about 4in x 4in when I put the germinated seed in them. Not sure if that would effect the slow growth rate or not.

I'll update on how things go.

mrclean420 said:

Firstly, thanks everyone for your input.

@mike, I don't have an EC meter unfortunately, only TDS and pH .

I just finished diluting and lowering the water level in all buckets. They are now ~1 inch below the net pots and about 360PPM. This includes superthrive and the Epsom salt I'm assuming (DILUTED, did not flush nor did I add more nutes). I also adjusted the pH of all the buckets to 5.8. I opened up the room window also to allow the cold winter air to allow the tent to cool to a lower temperature.
Also I forgot to mention the rockwools I used were larger than standard size, about 4in x 4in when I put the germinated seed in them. Not sure if that would effect the slow growth rate or not.

I'll update on how things go.

Click to expand...

TDs(ppm) is simply a converted EC. It's either .5 or .7 conversion, and your ppm reading is based on that. The manufacturer will tell you the conversion factor. Find out and let us know what it is, it does matter. I honestly don't know why EC isn't just the standard measuring unit.

And although people do it, I've heard a lot of bad stories about introducing superthrive into dwc buckets. And epsom salt? Why?

As far as temps, by opening a window you essentially now have a greenhouse with expensive lighting. Pick up a 5k btu window unit from sears for $100, it cools my cab with 2x600 no problem.

Lastly, a 4x4 rw cube sort of defeats the purpose of a dwc bucket as the roots are mostly in the rw instead of the bucket, at least until the plant is pretty big. It won't matter for a germinating seed though and isn't a cause of your problem. Just a hindrance overall. I'd honestly cut it down to 1.5x1.5 before roots fill it

not much to add just thought would make a post, i would do what people are saying clean res and and start with p/h water for right now there lil babies cant give em so much.

What's the temperature of the fluid in your buckets?

I can tell you right now you have severe nutrient lockout. They're yellow and not growing because they can't absorb ANYTHING under the conditions you're giving them.

I'm gonna say your water is too warm and you don't have enough DO. If those seedling ever root, and you keep at it that way, the wonderful world of slime awaits you.

Hey Mrclean...

one more thing about rock wool...if it is to wet like sitting in water it might start rotting...I had some seeds rot from over watering before in RW...just so you know.....later.......nitro

@mike The conversion factor is 0.5 (from http://www.tdsmeter.com/products/tdsez.html) so the EC is 180? (360ppm x 0.5). I added the Epsom salt because I thought it was a sulfate and/or mg deficiency from the research I was doing . I will check tomorrow to see if I can find a cheap window A/C unit. As for now, the temps are hovering around 84 def F. I'm not sure how much the roots have grown (they're not hanging out of the net pots yet, and I'm afraid if I cut the RW cubes I might cut off some roots. Do you think its better to do so?

@lordjin, I don't have a thermometer to check the fluid temperature but I agree that they are probably warmer than they should be. There was some mild slime on the air hose tubing when I flushed them and I will get the temps down to 75 deg MAX right now.

Thanks for the info, I JUST dropped the water level down below them.

A lot of people have hit this on the head already, but I'll just reaffirm to drive the point home. With those ambient temps you're going to
have all kinds of issues. Even an un-cooled 400w will create problems, and you're running at 600.

You should focus on the following asap:

1. Your plants are very young to be feeding, as many have already said, wait for about the second set of real leaves to come in and then start on
a very weak nutrient solution (1/4) strength then step it up in 2x increments every week.

2. Get the res cooled... either switch to cooler jugs or insulate your existing setup. Ambient temps at 90 means your nutrient solution is running
close to that which means its a breeding ground for all kinds of horrible things. Water level should be below... if you soak a small root system
with those high temps you'll have a losing battle with pythium on your hands.

3. Get your ambient temperatures down... ideally you need some serious ventilation and an air-cooled light.

mrclean420 said:

@lordjin, I don't have a thermometer to check the fluid temperature but I agree that they are probably warmer than they should be. There was some mild slime on the air hose tubing when I flushed them and I will get the temps down to 75 deg MAX right now.

Click to expand...

Don't worry about a slimy feeling on inorganic surfaces. Do your roots feel slimy?

yea so i grow in an aeroponics set up which is similar.... the main thing you need to worry about now that your res temps are high is getting them down and the all important "root rot"... lordjin is right you need to check your roots bc if they are slimy you def wanna get some h202 or sm90... and maybe you can save them... also spray your roots with store bought hydrogen peroxide and clean the hell out of your reservoirs... i learned the hard way and lost half my plants to root rot... easy fix for all of my problems was just adding a little ice to the water being mixed with my nutes.... thought it might throw off my ph but suprisingly not enough for me to stop using ice... check out my thread got some pics of the root rot on my plants... out of 8 only 1 survived...

im also using technaflora nutes and have feed the one that survived with 50% nutes since 2 weeks old... never had a problem with them...

mrclean420 said:

@mike The conversion factor is 0.5so the EC is 180? (360ppm x 0.5). I added the Epsom salt because I thought it was a sulfate and/or mg deficiency from the research I was doing . I will check tomorrow to see if I can find a cheap window A/C unit. As for now, the temps are hovering around 84 def F. I'm not sure how much the roots have grown (they're not hanging out of the net pots yet, and I'm afraid if I cut the RW cubes I might cut off some roots. Do you think its better to do so?

Click to expand...

That makes your EC 1.8, not 180. Again, don't add stuff. A 1-2 week seedling really just needs light, air, and water, in the correct environment of course. And you should be fine to cut the rw down, you'd only find a taproot if you cut too much off the bottom. So maybe cut it to 1.5x1.5x2.5 if you want to be safer.

I'd get a thermometer of some sort, it's crucial that you get those temps down.

I went to Home depot, Walmart, and Petsmart to look for a thermometer to check the res temps but they were either broken, cheap plastic for aquariums, or didn't have them. Will probably have to order one online. I also purchased some air tubing to get the air pumps out of the tent and to suck in COLD air from the window (I've noticed they get really hot/too hot to touch from either being constantly on or from the radiant heat from the light) to help with the cooling. I'm hoping the air pumps will pump the cold outside air into the res buckets to help cool the water.

@Lord, I can't tell if the roots are slimy as they have not grown out of the net pots yet
@Mike, as for an A/C unit, I have a portable A/C unit but that won't fit in the tent and a window A/C unit would do the same thing as keeping the window open since outside temps are hovering around 32 deg F.

I'm thinking maybe I can either reverse the inline fan to blow the outside cool air through the cooled reflector then into the room OR get another fan to blow the outside air into the tent.

As for the plants, how fast can I expect them to grow with the current conditions? I understand they need to recover from being stressed and get a solid root base but I'm also worried that the previously ~750PPM water I was using has caused the RW to be saturated with nutrients and still causing nutrient lockout. Should I take the netpots out and flush them with pH adjusted water?

I will post more pics of the girls either later tonight or tomorrow.