Your thoughts on defoliation?

ebcrew

Well-Known Member
The exposed stalk you have above soil, for best results, should be buried. The exposed area where you took leaves will now grow roots if you bury that stalk up to the leaves. You can see them wanting to grow out stalk now but there is no soil for them to grow into. More roots always helps your plants.

That is the only reason I defoliate is when I transplant to larger pot. I remove single blade leaf set, and 2 nodes after that. The defoliated stalk is buried during transplant, to create more roots. Other than that I just remove dead leaves and my space is crowded. Bud sites are still swelling.

Just my 2 cents.
Ive never done that in the past, i always leave some of the stem above the soil, but i sort of see what your saying about more roots. Im not sure how much of a difference it will make if i do bury the stem. Perhaps you can explain, have you done any experiments on that? Would be something cool to try next time.

One should always be trying to improve and make old techniques better, thats my philosophy anyway.
 

skinnysmoke

Well-Known Member
Ive never done that in the past, i always leave some of the stem above the soil, but i sort of see what your saying about more roots. Im not sure how much of a difference it will make if i do bury the stem. Perhaps you can explain, have you done any experiments on that? Would be something cool to try next time.

One should always be trying to improve and make old techniques better, thats my philosophy anyway.
I have yet to do a side by side experiment but I have started burying the stalk. Root growth from stalk is abundant, this Pineapple Express, in the pic I'm about to post, was buried to the 4th node during transplant. When its done I will post pics of its roots. Pic is of 17th day of flower, currently its 25 days into flower, so about 4 more weeks.

HPIM0144.JPG
 

Mad_Prophessor

Well-Known Member
I have yet to do a side by side experiment but I have started burying the stalk. Root growth from stalk is abundant, this Pineapple Express, in the pic I'm about to post, was buried to the 4th node during transplant. When its done I will post pics of its roots. Pic is of 17th day of flower, currently its 25 days into flower, so about 4 more weeks.

View attachment 3427200
I am not trying to dis you, but you are in no position to give advice. You will be lucky to clear an ounce with that plant.

This is how it's done. Imagine how much bigger these girls would have been if I didn't defoliate them. This is a few harvests ago, but you get the idea. IMG_20141203_204816_476.jpg
 

skinnysmoke

Well-Known Member
I am not trying to dis you, but you are in no position to give advice. You will be lucky to clear an ounce with that plant.

This is how it's done. Imagine how much bigger these girls would have been if I didn't defoliate them. This is a few harvests ago, but you get the idea. View attachment 3427218
I'm growing with cfls and 3ft from top to bottom of my cab. With 2 other full grown girls in there to. This is a seed run so yield is not important. So you cant dis me if you don't know my grow space or reason for this grow. Secondly I was giving advice for the bare stalk above soil. It will grow roots out if buried. I never said I grew the biggest or best. Just giving advice for bare stalk.

Nice plant, I can tell you know your shit, so you should also know that a stalk, stripped of its leaves, when buried will grow roots correct?

Also not saying that defoliation for transplant is necessary either just an option if it was done the plant
 

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Come on man, that is hardly a serious answer. He wasn't looking to beat anything to death. He was looking for a discussion from current members that have experience in it. Of course you can research it and come up with plenty of studies to go either way.

Your statement is only partially correct. Defoliation is essential for growing big plants, but on a very limited application (ie. just after the stretch). If you keep all the lower growth on a plant, you can certainly take away energy from the colas. If the plant only has big nugs to focus on, that is what it will do. If you have a plant with the bottom covered in larf, I will be the first one to tell you, you could have yielded more by just removing the larf and letting the plant focus on the colas.

Removing solar panels so your buds can have light is just plain stupid. Tell me, do you think a big fat leaf or a tiny bud leaf can do more with the light it is given? Think about it. Your buds are not the panels collecting food for the plants, the leaves are.

You guys are making the point as to why this thread was created. There are some misconceptions that you guys are carrying around.
Whats to discuss? The subject is closed and has been.....defoliation results in small buds across the plant. Delayed finish and stressed plants......stress can cause herming among other things,,,,,stressed plants give off pheromones that attract mites...
If a savvy person wanted to find the answers to this question.....The first place to check on is a search to find what has been said already. If that is not enough, then ask the question.......

Remove lower bud sites? Why? Because you believe it makes bigger mains/yields.....what about the ones you cut off? They make for yield too.....In fact if done right, increase yields by more then any gain in mains. Those popcorn buds at the bottom - they are more potent when brought to a proper finish! Defoliation for extra light/air flow for them is not needed! You can grow big lowers with out progressive harvesting. But progressive harvesting works to make some potent stuff...
Read this thread and check some of those lower bud pics out!
https://www.rollitup.org/t/light.853779/

First you say to,,,,then not to. WTF????

Most plants (strains) will react the same way. They will grow smaller buds with nanners in them. Sativas, given their lack of leaves to begin with will be considerably slower to recover. That is about the only difference. Links are one thing, but I have been growing for 20 years and have done the experiments. I am not reiterating somebody else's experience, I am telling you what I have done and seen with my own eyes. There is a big difference between the two.
Wait,,What? Sounds like you don't approve again....
Links? The links provided the answers the OP was looking for,,,,period .... 20 years? Ok, I've done it too....before you did, longer ago.... I 100% agree with the smaller buds/yields part. You should mention that they will also lose some bag appeal (I don't give a hoot what it looks like.....It just has to be good....But more work for less yield is stupid!!).

BTW,,,,,you should ALL go and look at that link above!!!! Learn something new...

Doc "No wonder UB doesn't bother to answer this shit anymore!"
 

skinnysmoke

Well-Known Member
Whats to discuss? The subject is closed and has been.....defoliation results in small buds across the plant. Delayed finish and stressed plants......stress can cause herming among other things,,,,,stressed plants give off pheromones that attract mites...
If a savvy person wanted to find the answers to this question.....The first place to check on is a search to find what has been said already. If that is not enough, then ask the question.......

Remove lower bud sites? Why? Because you believe it makes bigger mains/yields.....what about the ones you cut off? They make for yield too.....In fact if done right, increase yields by more then any gain in mains. Those popcorn buds at the bottom - they are more potent when brought to a proper finish! Defoliation for extra light/air flow for them is not needed! You can grow big lowers with out progressive harvesting. But progressive harvesting works to make some potent stuff...
Read this thread and check some of those lower bud pics out!
https://www.rollitup.org/t/light.853779/

First you say to,,,,then not to. WTF????



Wait,,What? Sounds like you don't approve again....
Links? The links provided the answers the OP was looking for,,,,period .... 20 years? Ok, I've done it too....before you did, longer ago.... I 100% agree with the smaller buds/yields part. You should mention that they will also lose some bag appeal (I don't give a hoot what it looks like.....It just has to be good....But more work for less yield is stupid!!).

BTW,,,,,you should ALL go and look at that link above!!!! Learn something new...

Doc "No wonder UB doesn't bother to answer this shit anymore!"
Preaching to the choir here. I was only trying to give the grower an option for the bare stalk that was left from his defoliation. Which was to bury that stalk so that roots would grow from it.

Never once did I agree with defoliation for higher yields or better buds! So not all of us. As a matter fact Rm3 and Uncle Ben gave me that bit knowledge about burying the stalk for more root growth.

That being said good link a lot of good info, read it and posted there when thread was current. So let's try not to group everybody that posts in this thread a defoliator.

Good day grower!:bigjoint:
 

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Preaching to the choir here. I was only trying to give the grower an option for the bare stalk that was left from his defoliation. Which was to bury that stalk so that roots would grow from it.

Never once did I agree with defoliation for higher yields or better buds! So not all of us. As a matter fact Rm3 and Uncle Ben gave me that bit knowledge about burying the stalk for more root growth.

That being said good link a lot of good info, read it and posted there when thread was current. So let's try not to group everybody that posts in this thread a defoliator.

Good day grower!:bigjoint:
Awe come on Skinny,,,,,I didn't quote you dude! I know you posted there......Just preach'in to the others bro!

And Riddle and Ben gave you very good advice......Mad .. P don't seem to understand that one.....

Se ya around Bro!
"click",,,there, paid ya back

Doc
 

harris hawk

Well-Known Member
I have yet to do a side by side experiment but I have started burying the stalk. Root growth from stalk is abundant, this Pineapple Express, in the pic I'm about to post, was buried to the 4th node during transplant. When its done I will post pics of its roots. Pic is of 17th day of flower, currently its 25 days into flower, so about 4 more weeks.

View attachment 3427200
Fans leaves are of no use after the 4th week of flower. There is much debate on "defoliation" -basicly remove leaves that block your light to bids and then do a heavy defoliation in week 4 of Vegation - none in prer-flower and the in week 4 of flower do a heavy defoliation. One really defoliates thru out grow, but if over done you will produce smaller plants, don't take the "sugar-leaves- defoliation causes stress one should feed plant after a heavy defoliation
 

skinnysmoke

Well-Known Member
Fans leaves are of no use after the 4th week of flower. There is much debate on "defoliation" -basicly remove leaves that block your light to bids and then do a heavy defoliation in week 4 of Vegation - none in prer-flower and the in week 4 of flower do a heavy defoliation. One really defoliates thru out grow, but if over done you will produce smaller plants, don't take the "sugar-leaves- defoliation causes stress one should feed plant after a heavy defoliation
If it works for you. Doesn't for me. Lower bud sites do not need direct light, that's what those big fan leaves are for. You can do it outdoors or indoors still same result smaller buds on lower part of plant. Whether you defoliate or not. Some of my best smoke has come from popcorn buds. Imo

Once again if your happy with it by all means continue, but I will never defoliate me mj again.:bigjoint:
 

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Fans leaves are of no use after the 4th week of flower. There is much debate on "defoliation" -basicly remove leaves that block your light to bids and then do a heavy defoliation in week 4 of Vegation - none in prer-flower and the in week 4 of flower do a heavy defoliation. One really defoliates thru out grow, but if over done you will produce smaller plants, don't take the "sugar-leaves- defoliation causes stress one should feed plant after a heavy defoliation
Call the Vet!
911!
Hawk flew into an ass and needs his head removed!

Go read the link I gave above bird man. I thought I knew you better then that....
 

Mad_Prophessor

Well-Known Member
Whats to discuss? The subject is closed and has been.....defoliation results in small buds across the plant. Delayed finish and stressed plants......stress can cause herming among other things,,,,,stressed plants give off pheromones that attract mites...
If a savvy person wanted to find the answers to this question.....The first place to check on is a search to find what has been said already. If that is not enough, then ask the question.......

Remove lower bud sites? Why? Because you believe it makes bigger mains/yields.....what about the ones you cut off? They make for yield too.....In fact if done right, increase yields by more then any gain in mains. Those popcorn buds at the bottom - they are more potent when brought to a proper finish! Defoliation for extra light/air flow for them is not needed! You can grow big lowers with out progressive harvesting. But progressive harvesting works to make some potent stuff...
Read this thread and check some of those lower bud pics out!
https://www.rollitup.org/t/light.853779/

First you say to,,,,then not to. WTF????



Wait,,What? Sounds like you don't approve again....
Links? The links provided the answers the OP was looking for,,,,period .... 20 years? Ok, I've done it too....before you did, longer ago.... I 100% agree with the smaller buds/yields part. You should mention that they will also lose some bag appeal (I don't give a hoot what it looks like.....It just has to be good....But more work for less yield is stupid!!).

BTW,,,,,you should ALL go and look at that link above!!!! Learn something new...

Doc "No wonder UB doesn't bother to answer this shit anymore!"
I have been very clear from my first post. I am not sure why you are confused. As I stated, I only remove the lower larf growth after the stretch. That's it. This is the trick to getting fat, nasty buds. I don't believe, I experiment and prove theories via the scientific method. You should try it some time yourself instead of just pasting links.

You seem confused so I will hold your hand. I do not encourage defoliation except after the stretch. That is the only time.

I dunno what you are talking about in regards to bag appeal. You and I are not even in the same ballpark or league. For the large scale grow that I have and have been doing, bag appeal is not even a thought. Everything I grow is over 20% THC and bad as fuck. My friends actually ask me to grow strains that are LESS potent. You are crazy to think the lower buds are more potent. That is just the most absurd thing I have ever heard. If you are growing one plant and have the time to remove all the top nugs and then wait for the lower ones to ripen, sure it's possible. If you have a perpetual grow with 20 or more flowering plants at one time, then that is impossible.

There were five of these colas on this plant that had no lower growth. The final tally on that plant was almost 5 ounces.IMG_20150410_111405_550.jpg
 

Mad_Prophessor

Well-Known Member
Fans leaves are of no use after the 4th week of flower. There is much debate on "defoliation" -basicly remove leaves that block your light to bids and then do a heavy defoliation in week 4 of Vegation - none in prer-flower and the in week 4 of flower do a heavy defoliation. One really defoliates thru out grow, but if over done you will produce smaller plants, don't take the "sugar-leaves- defoliation causes stress one should feed plant after a heavy defoliation
This is the biggest load of crap I have read about this topic. You have no idea what you are talking about.
 

Mad_Prophessor

Well-Known Member
I'm growing with cfls and 3ft from top to bottom of my cab. With 2 other full grown girls in there to. This is a seed run so yield is not important. So you cant dis me if you don't know my grow space or reason for this grow. Secondly I was giving advice for the bare stalk above soil. It will grow roots out if buried. I never said I grew the biggest or best. Just giving advice for bare stalk.

Nice plant, I can tell you know your shit, so you should also know that a stalk, stripped of its leaves, when buried will grow roots correct?

Also not saying that defoliation for transplant is necessary either just an option if it was done the plant
When you defoliate, there isnt a bare stalk. I think you are confused about the process. Most defoliating is done to the top of the plant (short of the lower growth that was removed). If you transplant and cover the main stalk, it will grow roots, but you also defeat one reason for the lower defoliation/growth removal to begin with. There is a very small part of this that is done for the plant's environment. Having airflow below the canopy is essential to keep your plants healthy (especially late in flower). Ask anybody that had a problem with PM or Bud rot and they will tell you the same thing. Without the lower airflow, the RH at the middle of the canopy can reach dangerously high levels.
 

ebcrew

Well-Known Member
:clap::clap:

This is exactly what i was looking for when i posted this thread. Thanks all ive gotten a ton of info.

This plant is an experiment plant so if i fuck it up i wont lose out or be mad. That said im going to continue defoliating this plant to see what happens, good or bad.
 

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
@Mad_Prophessor

I'm not going to get in a pissing match.....I disagree with what your proposing....period.
Did you even look at that lighting thread? You should! It shoots down a lot of your tested method.....It works for you....good for you!

It should not be stated like gospel!! Read the thread! I'm getting to damn old to retype the whole damn thing!
Info is available in many forms!!! Revisiting old threads for new knowledge works....Why should I retype information, especially someone else great contributions to that whole information thread.....

You supplied us with what you know....I supplied the views of many.....Some of those are far more learned then you....No offence intended!

I'm out of here.....

:clap::clap:

This is exactly what i was looking for when i posted this thread. Thanks all ive gotten a ton of info.

This plant is an experiment plant so if i fuck it up i wont lose out or be mad. That said im going to continue defoliating this plant to see what happens, good or bad.
I did not intend to sound like don't ever......I just wanted to supply you with more and varied info on it not being a good idea.....By all means !!! TEST it out!

Take a look at that thread link....you will learn something!
 

marquezmurder

Well-Known Member
Spam? I think I answered the "what does it come down to?" aspect of why it both does and does not work. Im sorry my visual AID was not clear enough, even though its completely relevant. Not to mention I read alot in the other 300+ page thread on Defoliation.
And spamming is super easy, don't tempt me with false accusations.
 

ebcrew

Well-Known Member
@Mad_Prophessor

I'm not going to get in a pissing match.....I disagree with what your proposing....period.
Did you even look at that lighting thread? You should! It shoots down a lot of your tested method.....It works for you....good for you!

It should not be stated like gospel!! Read the thread! I'm getting to damn old to retype the whole damn thing!
Info is available in many forms!!! Revisiting old threads for new knowledge works....Why should I retype information, especially someone else great contributions to that whole information thread.....

You supplied us with what you know....I supplied the views of many.....Some of those are far more learned then you....No offence intended!

I'm out of here.....


I did not intend to sound like don't ever......I just wanted to supply you with more and varied info on it not being a good idea.....By all means !!! TEST it out!

Take a look at that thread link....you will learn something!
I will for sure look at the link you posted, i havent gotten around to it yet, but i plan to by the nights end. I knew that the topic would be heavily defended from both sides. Appreciate all the information and criticism from both sides. Anything that wasnt spam was appreciated.
 

ebcrew

Well-Known Member
Spam? I think I answered the "what does it come down to?" aspect of why it both does and does not work. Im sorry my visual AID was not clear enough, even though its completely relevant. Not to mention I read alot in the other 300+ page thread on Defoliation.
And spamming is super easy, don't tempt me with false accusations.
Dont even know who u are, or what you posted, if you spammed i didnt recognize it at all. and also if u did keep it out of my future posts.
 

skinnysmoke

Well-Known Member
When you defoliate, there isnt a bare stalk. I think you are confused about the process. Most defoliating is done to the top of the plant (short of the lower growth that was removed). If you transplant and cover the main stalk, it will grow roots, but you also defeat one reason for the lower defoliation/growth removal to begin with. There is a very small part of this that is done for the plant's environment. Having airflow below the canopy is essential to keep your plants healthy (especially late in flower). Ask anybody that had a problem with PM or Bud rot and they will tell you the same thing. Without the lower airflow, the RH at the middle of the canopy can reach dangerously high levels.
If you look at pic @ebcrew posted there is bare stalk below the foliage. Thats what I originally responded for. I have time to do what I like in my garden because I grow for me and not a business. Everyone isn't looking for max yield, hell a lot of us mate different strains to get smoke to our liking. I do this shit for fun!

So depending on the grower and what they want, determines the grow style. More than 1 way to skin a cat.
Pineapple Express day 26 you said I would only get an ounce, I think your wrong! She still has 4 more weeks at least, seeded, and under cfls. Pics from shitty camera but will updated final tally to this thread.
DSCF2072.JPG
DSCF2071.JPG
Main cola pulled over
DSCF2069.JPG
 
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