Zinc deficiency? thinned out veiny leaves

Q

quietlike

Active Member
Hi everyone, I'll get right to it.
I am in the my 2nd week of flowering, and my Nordle (CBD trial) has come up with veiny leaves. The leaves are still green, no curling or browning, just not as wide, thinner, and they appear 'veiny' thats the best way i can describe it. Ive had this issue before in soil, but it was due to high PH. I've checked my levels, and they remain steady between 5.8-6.2 (In hydro, dwc). I am using Lucas formula in a bottle (floraNova).
After doing a simple search, supposedly its a zinc deficiency. I went to the hydro store, they had nothing for zinc, but after wa quick serch there, he said that some people put in zinc washers in their rez. ive done that, its been a day. Will this work, if this doesn't, what am I missing? Is this even a Zinc deficiency?
Here's a pic, thanks! Help!
 
B

bongbrain

Member
dont do a damn thing. i've had good ass plants like this and freaked over little shit. "treated" it but it died because it was one leaf verses a ton of good ones.
 
Q

quietlike

Active Member
bongbrain said:
dont do a damn thing. i've had good ass plants like this and freaked over little shit. "treated" it but it died because it was one leaf verses a ton of good ones.
Click to expand...
It started with one, now its all of them. Maybe the pic doesnt show it. Ill take more and post them. It definitely doesnt look very healthy. Thanks though
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
This should have been posted in Plant Problems.

Having said that, doesn't look like zinc deficiency to me, looks like leaf bronzing caused by too high salts. Zinc washer, that is ridiculous.

The Lucas formula could be causing it. Get some Dyna-Gro Foliage Pro and follow the directions. Based on the wacked GH NPK values, I wouldn't touch the stuff.
 
T

trichead

Member
Difficult to say for sure without knowing the % of each of your macro and micros and other binding/complexing agents, what your dosages are and how often u change res. Also knowing the contents of your water could be helpful the more detailed the better, but an ec/ppm measure could be indicative. This way we can see if something is too high or too low and speculate as to whether its agonising/synergising with other elements and thus available/unavailable.

Going with the Zinc deficiency option, it can be caused by too high Ca, P and Fe.. It may be that your formula is to high for the Ca for your water or that your plants are consuming things other than Ca faster than you are changing your res, which will eventually also cause other lockout problems too eventually, especially in DWC where its recirculated. P could too high (which i think it is in lucas if i remember) which again will lead to problems. Its most likely both your Calcium(Ca) and Phosphate(P) is coming from salts, which i think is what uncle ben is referring to. Fe is probly a chelated edta/edhta these days so i doubt it have a significant agonist effect.

Still for now you probably want to treat the symptom even without a definitive diagnosis. The fastest easiest way is to compensate through foliar application of suitable fertilizers. Not used dyna-gro foliage pro but it looks like everything is there, so u'll treat whatever it was in all likelyhood. Any other similar foliar fertilizer that provides all the micronutrients will also do the job.

Other possible courses of action would be to change your res and nutes more frequently to prevent buildup of disproportionate Ca %. Try use low Ca water like RO. Ca agonises basically everything and it can happen even while your EC and Ph look ok. Still its a necessary part of any formulation. This is almost default action for any recirc system with micro deficiencies.

Maybe in the long term maybe try changing your formula all together for something with lower Ca which i recon will give you less lockout problems for DWC (which will probably mean lower N too) especially in recirculating systems and maybe lower in P too. Don't worry about going for lower NPK formulas when looking for a lower Ca option, because they will be lower in concentration but more available.

"Mulders chart" is a good way to learn the basics of how nutrient elements interact with eachother.
 
Q

quietlike

Active Member
trichead said:
Difficult to say for sure without knowing the % of each of your macro and micros and other binding/complexing agents, what your dosages are and how often u change res. Also knowing the contents of your water could be helpful the more detailed the better, but an ec/ppm measure could be indicative. This way we can see if something is too high or too low and speculate as to whether its agonising/synergising with other elements and thus available/unavailable.

Going with the Zinc deficiency option, it can be caused by too high Ca, P and Fe.. It may be that your formula is to high for the Ca for your water or that your plants are consuming things other than Ca faster than you are changing your res, which will eventually also cause other lockout problems too eventually, especially in DWC where its recirculated. P could too high (which i think it is in lucas if i remember) which again will lead to problems. Its most likely both your Calcium(Ca) and Phosphate(P) is coming from salts, which i think is what uncle ben is referring to. Fe is probly a chelated edta/edhta these days so i doubt it have a significant agonist effect.

Still for now you probably want to treat the symptom even without a definitive diagnosis. The fastest easiest way is to compensate through foliar application of suitable fertilizers. Not used dyna-gro foliage pro but it looks like everything is there, so u'll treat whatever it was in all likelyhood. Any other similar foliar fertilizer that provides all the micronutrients will also do the job.


Other possible courses of action would be to change your res and nutes more frequently to prevent buildup of disproportionate Ca %. Try use low Ca water like RO. Ca agonises basically everything and it can happen even while your EC and Ph look ok. Still its a necessary part of any formulation. This is almost default action for any recirc system with micro deficiencies.

Maybe in the long term maybe try changing your formula all together for something with lower Ca which i recon will give you less lockout problems for DWC (which will probably mean lower N too) especially in recirculating systems and maybe lower in P too. Don't worry about going for lower NPK formulas when looking for a lower Ca option, because they will be lower in concentration but more available.

"Mulders chart" is a good way to learn the basics of how nutrient elements interact with eachother.
Click to expand...
Sorry for posting in the wrong place...
I'm only using Floranova which is 4/8/7, so how can I have too high other stuff? I'd guess that something would be too low vs too high. I've done this before using waterfarms, differnt strains, with no problems (copying a grow journal of Pinapple express, using the floranova throughout the entire cycle), I know DWC is not the same though. I change the rez once a week, using 7tsp/gal w/ RO, 2 gallons in the rez, measuring at 800-900ppm, topping off with PH'd RO water once or twice a week. No problems in veg, this only has happened since going into flower.
I will try the foliar fertilizer, is it ok to spray in flowering? Wont that mold up the buds/get into them when they start forming? Its growing in a cab.

Thanks
Maybe I will repost in the correct forum.
 
T

trichead

Member
Total Nitrogen (N) 4.0 %
0.25% Ammoniacal Nitrogen
3.75% Nitrate Nitrogen
Available Phosphate (P205) 8.0 %
Soluble Potash (K20) 7.0 %
Calcium (Ca) 4.0 %
Magnesium (Mg) 2.0 %
2.0% Water Soluble Magnesium (Mg)
Sulfur (S) 2.0 %
2.0% Combined Sulfur
Chelated Iron (Fe) 0.1 %
0.1% Chelated Iron

I think the Ca seems abit high for your setup, so I recon as your plants consume the other nutrients, a disproportionate amount of Ca is being left in your solution, which locks everything out. What you are doing sounds right with regards to res changes, water, topping up and ppm, still dont rule out the Ca buildup issue, it could just be that your formula requires a different treatment. Also P seems pretty high relative to everything else, as is Mg relative to Ca and P, usually id expect those to be lower, and those could also explain Zn lockout. Still this is just a matter of opinion and not fact until tested :)

You say for example that you've had no problems with this formula before in other systems and other strains, but certain formulas are better for certain systems and parameters. What substrates did u use in those? That is an important factor in making the right choice. It doesn't mean that this isn't a great formula, it might just not be a great or easy formula for your grow setup.

The solution, irrelevant of opinion about what is wrong, that uncle ben offers is good and easy. I think that in the long term though its important to consider these issues as a signal that something is going wrong with the ratios of your nutrient solution thats making them not right for dwc.

I do various foliar sprays during flower and never had problems, just dont soak them, the cab air exchange high and air flowing through the buds and its warm enough for it to evaporate, i use a surfecant too and do it while the lights are on and never get burn.
 
Q

quietlike

Active Member
hey guys thanks for the help. my problem has evolved. AT the top, closest to the lights, the new shoots are starting to form yellow color from the inside out. I am using LED lighting. Hard to explain, i've added photos. I dont know what the issue is, but it may clarify my previous problem. Help thanks!
IMAG0461.jpgIMAG0462.jpgIMAG0463.jpg
 
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