A tax analogy, who's really paying their fair share?

[BigNBushy]

you said that a consumption tax is a tax on wealth.

as income approaches infinity (wealth), the effective rate of taxation approaches zero.

as income approaches zero, the effective rate of taxation approaches 100% (your prebate is as retarded as your 32% rate of taxation, so spare me).

the "fair" tax is not a tax on wealth, it is a regressive tax on the middle class and poor.

but you work at subway, so of course you don't understand such basic math about the asinine package of goods that you bought.

fool.

If the united states government were only going to levy taxes on the population for one year, you would be right.

But we are taxed every year.

If I can paraphrase your argument, it is this... But savings...

A person with very very very high income cannot spend all they make. True. So you think they escape taxation through savings. False.

Savings are nothing but deferred spending. Eventually those savings will be spent. Be it by the person who earned it, or the person who inheriets it. At that moment, it is taxed.

So sure, that person might not be taxed, but the money he saves in all cases will be. Unless he sets it on fire.

The poor person gets a set amount of money equal to the amount of money that would be consumed by this tax. They get it each month. This number is set at poverty level spending. So a person earning at the poverty level has an effective tax rate of zero.

Buck, suppose the poverty line is 2ok. You will spend all of it, most likely, if that is what you earn.

If you spend all of it on taxable goods (second hand goods, even sold at retail level, are untaxed) you will get every penny that you would have spent on taxes back.

In other words, if you make 20k, you spend 20k. You are also taxed on 20k. You get as a refund the tax on 20k of spending.

So, each month you get, on a reloadable card, direct deposit, or check in mail (all currently used by millions of people getting government money) $383.33

Now, as stated, you aren't taxed on used items (cars, clothes anything used, only new items)

So, if you are poor, buy a used car, shop at second hand stores, and you might only actually be spening 100-200 a month on taxes, and still getting 383.

So how is it a heavy tax on the poor, if they get more out of it than they put in?

Everyone gets the prebate, the poor, the middle class, the super rich. Everyone.

The 23/32 per cent thing isn't really important. But I'll explain that to you.

If you make 100k and your federal income tax bill is 23k? What is your tax rate? 23% or 32%?

If the cost of an item is 100, and 23 of that goes to the fairtax, what percent is that?

You see how it's calculated the same way?

You could say, that since you only brought home 77k, and paid in 23k, that your federal income tax is 32%, couldn't you? Nope.

They are both inclusive taxes, and that's how inclusive taxes are calculated.

 

[BigNBushy]

Here is the actual poverty line, it's over 20k for a family of 4 - a very typical household size, so that families prebate would be more... Copy pasting the chart didn't work. Here is a link.

 

[canndo]

A consumption tax, like the FairTax, would go a long way into solving this by being more of a tax on wealth than a tax on income.

No it won't, the rich don't eat much more than the middle class, they don't drink much more water, buy many more shirts, or use much more toilet paper.

humans all "consume" about the same.

 

[BigNBushy]

No it won't, the rich don't eat much more than the middle class, they don't drink much more water, buy many more shirts, or use much more toilet paper.

humans all "consume" about the same.

You don't know many rich people at all, do you?

I know one person who might be a 1%'er.

He has 3 boats (and these aren't normal boats like my upper middle class parents own(Ed)

Four houses. Multitudes of cars he bought new. All kinds of consumer goods.

Rich folks not only buy more in terms of quantity, what they buy is way more expensive.

When I bought a tv, I bough a 900 dollar one. His is the same size, it was 3 grand.

Rich people spend a helluva a lot of money.

 

[UncleBuck]

Rich people spend a helluva a lot of money.

they also HAVE and EARN a lot of money, much more than they spend. hence why they are wealthy.

as such, that is why the "fair" tax is mathematically retarded.

as income approaches infinity (welath) effective tax rate approaches zero.

as income approaches zero, effective tax rate approaches 100%.

you cannot escape the math, it pulls worse than a black hole or your anus when you're in the presence of your molested childhood friend.

 

[canndo]

You don't know many rich people at all, do you?

I know one person who might be a 1%'er.

He has 3 boats (and these aren't normal boats like my upper middle class parents own(Ed)

Four houses. Multitudes of cars he bought new. All kinds of consumer goods.

Rich folks not only buy more in terms of quantity, what they buy is way more expensive.

When I bought a tv, I bough a 900 dollar one. His is the same size, it was 3 grand.

Rich people spend a helluva a lot of money.

You can only buy so much food, regardless of the price of the food.

Beyond that, the rich tend to purchase things that increase in value - art, high end boats, houses, whereas the middle class do not have that luxury. Who gets rich when someone buys a five million dollar picaso? Picaso? the guy who dusts it every week? and when the price goes up to 8 million?

The rich do NOT consume comensurately to their income, the middle class do. If I make 100k, I purchase shoes that amount to 100th of my income. If I make 100M, do I do the same?

 

[NLXSK1]

they also HAVE and EARN a lot of money, much more than they spend. hence why they are wealthy.

as such, that is why the "fair" tax is mathematically retarded.

as income approaches infinity (welath) effective tax rate approaches zero.

as income approaches zero, effective tax rate approaches 100%.

you cannot escape the math, it pulls worse than a black hole or your anus when you're in the presence of your molested childhood friend.

And in Bucky's world the rich deserve to be punished because they are evil...

 

[NLXSK1]

You can only buy so much food, regardless of the price of the food.

Beyond that, the rich tend to purchase things that increase in value - art, high end boats, houses, whereas the middle class do not have that luxury. Who gets rich when someone buys a five million dollar picaso? Picaso? the guy who dusts it every week? and when the price goes up to 8 million?

The rich do NOT consume comensurately to their income, the middle class do. If I make 100k, I purchase shoes that amount to 100th of my income. If I make 100M, do I do the same?

They recently built a 110" TV that cost 150 grand to own...

How many middle class people are going to buy a luxury like that?

 

[UncleBuck]

And in Bucky's world the rich deserve to be punished because they are evil...

no, that would be theodore roosevelt, republican and champion of progressive taxation.

They recently built a 110" TV that cost 150 grand to own...

How many middle class people are going to buy a luxury like that?

you still trying to fight an unwinnable fight against mathematics?

 

[tokeprep]

A person with very very very high income cannot spend all they make. True. So you think they escape taxation through savings. False.

Savings are nothing but deferred spending. Eventually those savings will be spent. Be it by the person who earned it, or the person who inheriets it. At that moment, it is taxed.

So sure, that person might not be taxed, but the money he saves in all cases will be. Unless he sets it on fire.

Would charitable contributions be taxed?

 

[beenthere]

No it won't, the rich don't eat much more than the middle class, they don't drink much more water, buy many more shirts, or use much more toilet paper.

humans all "consume" about the same.

Damn canndo, you're reminding me more and more of UnckleBuck and Cheezy.
Haven't you learned from these two half wits that making claims without doing a stitch of research, makes you look like a uninformed fool?

 

[canndo]

Damn canndo, you're reminding me more and more of UnckleBuck and Cheezy.
Haven't you learned from these two half wits that making claims without doing a stitch of research, makes you look like a uninformed fool?

Some of this is a matter of reason beenthere. the rich do NOT consume comensurate with their wealth. Most of the middle class spend the majority of their income on consumables. The rich do not.

 

[NLXSK1]

Some of this is a matter of reason beenthere. the rich do NOT consume comensurate with their wealth. Most of the middle class spend the majority of their income on consumables. The rich do not.

And what do they do with the wealth they are not consuming??

Hint... It is not being hoarded...

 

[greenlikemoney]

I'll tell you what Bucky, you claiming to pay 25% federal taxes on only 30k annual income tells me you have no clue of what you're talking about, it's an utterly ridiculous claim. Not only are you full of shit on this issue, after that comment, I doubt seriously you've ever paid federal income taxes in your life. I see you as nothing but a big mouth progressive hack.

I could like this like a million times, he's so transparent.

 

[UncleBuck]

I'll tell you what Bucky, you claiming to pay 25% federal taxes on only 30k annual income tells me you have no clue of what you're talking about, it's an utterly ridiculous claim. Not only are you full of shit on this issue, after that comment, I doubt seriously you've ever paid federal income taxes in your life. I see you as nothing but a big mouth progressive hack.

fuck it. not going to wait for beenthere and his yellow sugar leaf.

I could like this like a million times, he's so transparent.

WOOOOOOOPS!
a

 

[aussie originals]

hmmmm im not going to waste my time reading through this whole thing because i get the feeling its going to be over 50 pages of bickering but i dont see the big deal. In Australia the more you earn the higher percentage tax you pay. so yes the rich get taxed more. guess which country survived the GFC without any dramas (lol its hard to right GFC and not automatically spell out GSC(Girl Scout Cookies) maybe im spending to much time on grow forums lol)

i have worked in shitty jobs in factories earning minimum wage and i i have held jobs in mines and i can tell you when your opening your $3400 a week pay slip and seeing that you paid $1020 in tax (30%) leaving you $2380 left to play with each week it doesnt sting as much as when your earning $400 a week and paying $84 (21%) leaving you with only $316 a week to survive.

besides dont you all love your country dont you want better roads, hospitals, schools etc. the rich should be proud to pay extra taxes, but oh thats right you dont get rich by being generous you get rich by being a tight arse and screwing everyone else every chance you get lol

 

[beenthere]

UncleBuck must still think the federal deduction from his pay check is the percent of federal taxes he pays!
I'll bet you can't wait to take over your father in-law's multimillion dollar business, does he realize how awesomely smart you are when it comes to finances and taxes?

To be honest, I would consider meeting your father in-law for lunch.

 

[beenthere]

hmmmm im not going to waste my time reading through this whole thing because i get the feeling its going to be over 50 pages of bickering but i dont see the big deal. In Australia the more you earn the higher percentage tax you pay. so yes the rich get taxed more. guess which country survived the GFC without any dramas (lol its hard to right GFC and not automatically spell out GSC(Girl Scout Cookies) maybe im spending to much time on grow forums lol)

i have worked in shitty jobs in factories earning minimum wage and i i have held jobs in mines and i can tell you when your opening your $3400 a week pay slip and seeing that you paid $1020 in tax (30%) leaving you $2380 left to play with each week it doesnt sting as much as when your earning $400 a week and paying $84 (21%) leaving you with only $316 a week to survive.

besides dont you all love your country dont you want better roads, hospitals, schools etc. the rich should be proud to pay extra taxes, but oh thats right you dont get rich by being generous you get rich by being a tight arse and screwing everyone else every chance you get lol

I'm not rich, but I do pay a hefty amount of federal income tax every year and I don't have a problem with it as long as it's put to good use.
What I do have a problem with is, our government wastes too much of our tax dollars as it is, they only care about fighting wars and growing government bigger.

BTW, in the US, our roads are suppose to be built and maintained by fuel excise taxes we pay at the pump, and our schools are funded by state and local taxes.

 

[canndo]

And what do they do with the wealth they are not consuming??

Hint... It is not being hoarded...

When one stores one's wealth in the camans, it is being hoarded.

 

[beenthere]

When one stores one's wealth in the camans, it is being hoarded.

That offshore money is taxed by other countries, it's a global economy, skippy. Wake up and wise up, you're way in over your head here.