Global Warming is a Myth, Rush Limbaugh said so!!!

Beefbisquit

Well-Known Member
[h=2]Slaying the Slayers with the Alabama Two-Step[/h] March 14th, 2012 by Roy W. Spencer, Ph. D.

last edited for clarity 11:05 CDT 3/14/2012



A recent article by S. Fred Singer in American Thinker entitled Climate Deniers are Giving Us Skeptics a Bad Name has caused a resurgence of attacks against those of us who believe that the Earth does indeed have a “greenhouse effect” which makes the Earth’s surface warmer than it would otherwise be.


As a result of Fred’s article, angry E-mails have been flying like arrows, and belligerent blog posts have littered the landscape. (Well, maybe that’s a bit of an exaggeration. But I enjoyed writing it.)
In the American Thinker article, Fred has taken the tack that the “denier” label (which left-leaning folk seem to love calling us) should be applied to those who deny the so-called greenhouse effect (which states that infrared absorbing gases in the atmosphere perform a surface-warming function) and should not be applied to those of us who are skeptical of how much humans have warmed the climate system by slightly enhancing the natural greenhouse effect with more carbon dioxide from burning of carbon based fuels. The anti-greenhouse crowd’s bible seems to be the book, Slaying the Sky Dragon – Death of the Greenhouse Gas Theory.


The arguments between us and the anti-greenhouse advocates often become technical and devolve into disputes over the 1st or 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, whether photons really exist, whether a carbon dioxide molecule which absorbs IR energy immediately releases it again, whether outer space is an ‘insulator’, etc. Lay people quickly become overwhelmed, and even some of us technical types end up feeling ill-equipped to argue outside our areas of expertise.
I believe the fact that infrared-absorbing gases warm the surface and lower atmosphere can be easily demonstrated with 2 simple steps. The first step is in the realm of everyone’s daily experience. The second step is based upon satellite measurements of the Earth giving off infrared energy, measurements which were first made over 40 years ago.


The Alabama Two-Step
STEP 1:
Temperature is determined by rates of energy gain and energy loss. It does not matter whether we are talking about the human body, a car engine, a pot of water on the stove, or the climate system. The temperature (and whether it is rising or falling) is determined by the rates of energy gain and energy loss. In the case of the climate system, the Earth receives energy from the sun (primarily at visible wavelengths of light), and loses energy to outer space (primarily at infrared wavelengths). A temperature rise can occur either from (1) increasing the rate of energy gain, or (2) decreasing the rate of energy loss. The greenhouse effect has to do with the 2nd of these possibilities.

STEP 2:
Infrared absorbing gases reduce the rate at which the Earth loses infrared energy to space. Satellite measurements of the rate at which the Earth loses infrared energy to space have been made as early as the 1970′s, from the NASA Nimbus 4 spacecraft. The following plot shows the IR intensity (vertical axis) as a function of IR wavelength (horizontal axis). The area under the jagged curve is proportional to the rate of energy loss to space. Note that at the wavelengths where water vapor, carbon dioxide, and ozone absorb and emit IR energy, the rate of energy loss by the Earth is reduced.



Now, lets take Steps 1 and 2 together: If you add more of these “greenhouse gases” and nothing else changes then the rate at which the Earth, as a whole, loses energy to space is reduced. This must lead to a warming tendency, at least at the surface and lower atmosphere (the upper atmosphere will actually experience a cooling effect).
If your head is already exploding at this point, let’s use the (admittedly imperfect) analogy of a thermal IR image of a house at night, which shows how the windows and poorly insulated parts of a house are points of greater IR energy loss:

When you add insulation to your house, you reduce the rate of energy loss in the winter, which will raise the temperature inside the house (all other things being the same), while at the same time reducing the temperature of the exterior of the house. Similarly, greenhouse gases provide “radiative insulation” to the climate system, raising the temperature of the surface and lower atmosphere, while lowering the temperature of the middle and upper atmosphere.
The above analysis is, I believe, consistent with the views of MIT’s Dick Lindzen. It clearly demonstrates that IR absorbing gases (greenhouse gases) reduce the Earth’s ability to cool to outer space. No amount of obfuscation or strawman arguments in the comments section, below, will be able to get around this fact.

But HOW MUCH Warming?


The question of how much warming will result from adding carbon dioxide to the atmosphere is what we skeptics are skeptical of. The climate system is amazingly complex, and the IPCC position that elements within the climate system (especially clouds) will change in ways which amplify the resulting small warming tendency is highly questionable, to say the least. If the climate system instead acts to reduce the warming, then anthropogenic global warming (AGW) becomes for all practical purposes a non-issue.
This represents what I believe to be the simplest description of how greenhouse gases cause warming of the surface. It bypasses all of the esoteric discussions and instead deals only with observations, which I believe cannot be easily explained any other way:
FIRST, warming can be caused by a decrease in the rate of energy loss by the climate system (or any other system, for that matter).
SECOND, IR absorbing gases are observed from satellites to reduce the rate of energy loss to space.


THEREFORE, adding more IR absorbing gases will cause a warming tendency.


QED.


Again I emphasize, however, the above simple argument is necessarily true only to the extent that all other elements of the climate system remain the same, which they will not. These other changes are called ‘feedbacks’, and they can either make or break theories of global warming and associated climate change.


Regarding the Inevitable Questions…



1. Yes, the CO[SUB]2[/SUB] absorption bands are already mostly saturated…but the wings of those bands are not, as is evident in the above graph of satellite measurements. This saturation effect partly explains why the approximate 40% increase in atmospheric CO[SUB]2[/SUB] since pre-industrial times has resulted in only a 1% decrease in the rate of IR loss by the Earth to space (theoretically calculated). This is already accounted for in the climate models used by the IPCC.

2. Yes, convection is indeed a major mechanism of heat loss from the Earth’s surface. It greatly reduces the surface temperature of the Earth (and, by energy conservation, greatly increases the temperature of the middle and upper troposphere). And my view is that convective effects are what will cause feedbacks to minimize surface warming from CO[SUB]2[/SUB] increases. Climate models already contain convection…if they didn’t the modeled surface temperature of the Earth would average around 140 deg. F.

The global warming narrative advanced by the IPCC involves a chain of physical processes which must all be true in order for their conclusions to be true. The existence of the greenhouse effect is, in my view, one of the stronger links in the chain. Feedbacks are the weakest link.
 

Doer

Well-Known Member
Shit man. Don't you think I've read that before? BTW, that is stock photo, the IR house. I saw that already in a piece on aerial surveillance. That was said to be a grow house in Birmingham, England. Weird huh?

I am not talking about the explanation for the Church. All Dogma is full of these explanations.

So, how come all that will not work in the supercomputer simulations? How come it always leads to cooling using these data current Sat sets?

That is the dirty little secret I found out from the Cloud Science guys. They have a weather modeling international consortia of atmospheric sciences. But, they don't get the big dough from govt, of course, thanks to the UN and the evil Saganists.

They scoff at this. If it cannot be modeled, with all the compute horsepower that predicts our weather, what is up with that?

How can you even claim there can be this effect? These explanations cannot show the greenhouse effect in Models?

How can you? Simple. It is your God.

And when religions start, do you think everyone says, "Hey, here is religion. We can join that." No. It doesn't look like a religion at first.

That is the danger of cults they don't seem like a cult if you truly believe.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Then you are reading shit into what I am saying.

The previous report was admittedly WRONG. Science has reached false conclusions back to the beginning. Scientists said the earth was flat, that the sun rotated around it and it was the center of the universe. I have plenty of evidence showing that many of the conclusions scientists have reached in the past was wrong.

The scientific method is based on the creation of a hypothesis. Then the hypothesis is tested. If the hypothesis bears out under testing a conclusion may be reached (that can yet be proven wrong).

What we are dealing with here is more politics than science.

The hypothesis are:

1. The earth is warming at this time. (this is in dispute from the last 15 years of data) I would speculate that it is impossible to determine whether the globe will be warming or cooling tomorrow without any data nor proven hypothesis so all we have is the past.

2. Man is a driving force of the global warming if #1 is true.

Now, scientists have created multiple MODELS of what they thing is happening and NONE of the data has matched their hypothesis. They have failed to demonstrate it. BUT... BECAUSE IT IS SOOOO IMPORTANT. We jump to a conclusion and begin to take action...

That is politics, not science.

I dont care whether the globe is warming or cooling. We have direct evidence that it has been much cooler and much warmer.

My point is and always has been that we need to develop technologies to adapt rather than spend trillions of dollars trying to change the weather.
To the bolded: that was not science.
 

Beefbisquit

Well-Known Member
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?cluster=11738124811997556549&hl=en&as_sdt=0,5&as_ylo=2003&as_yhi=2005

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.131.3867

Both papers found the observed differences in CO2 bands matched the expected changes based on rising CO2 levels. Thus we have empirical evidence that increased CO2 is preventing longwave radiation from escaping out to space.

http://www.agu.org/journals/ABS/2004/2003GL018765.shtml

http://ams.confex.com/ams/Annual2006/techprogram/paper_100737.htm

What happens to longwave radiation that gets absorbed by greenhouse gases? The energy heats the atmosphere which in turn re-radiates longwave radiation. This re-radiated energy goes in all directions. Some of it makes its way back to the surface of the earth. Hence we expect to find increasing downward longwave radiation as CO2 levels increase.


Philipona 2004 finds that this is indeed the case - that downward longwave radiation is increasing due to an enhanced greenhouse effect. Evans 2006 takes this analysis further. By analysing high resolution spectral data, the increase in downward radiation can be quantitatively attributed to each of several anthropogenic gases. The results lead the authors to conclude that "this experimental data should effectively end the argument by skeptics that no experimental evidence exists for the connection between greenhouse gas increases in the atmosphere and global warming."


So we have multiple lines of empirical evidence for an enhanced CO2 greenhouse effect. Satellite measurements confirm that less longwave radiation is escaping to space. Surface measurements detect increased longwave radiation returning to Earth at wavelengths matching increased CO2 warming. And of course the result of this energy imbalance is the accumulation of heat over the last 40 years.


God has nothing to do with it. It's science, bitches.
 

Doer

Well-Known Member
God has nothing to do with it. It's science, bitches.
Cool. Could you wave your wrists a little closer to your chest? Yeah! That is funny. Like T-Rex with a Rubic Cube. :)

If there is a model that shows this effect and not a cloud effect to compensate, could you please point it out to me, bitches? Else you are pouting like a religion, bitches.
 

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
In case you might be wondering about my lack of response Beefy....

You challenged me in a debate about logic and lost. Instead of admitting it and moving on you moved the goalposts and whined like a little bitch.

So I put you on ignore. Have a nice life....
 

see4

Well-Known Member
Fair enough.

That reinforces the point I was trying to make...

Global Warming is not a science either. It is a religion based on redistribution of wealth.
No. Global Warming is a theory supported by a lot of data gathered in scientific research. Just as Black Holes are a theory supported by a great deal of evidence, and how Christianity is not science, supported by no tangible evidence.
 

see4

Well-Known Member
In case you might be wondering about my lack of response Beefy....

You challenged me in a debate about logic and lost. Instead of admitting it and moving on you moved the goalposts and whined like a little bitch.

So I put you on ignore. Have a nice life....
You are a child.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Fair enough.

That reinforces the point I was trying to make...

Global Warming is not a science either. It is a religion based on redistribution of wealth.
The politics of global warming are fraught.
The science of climate change is emerging. The models will catch up with the steadily-increasing (in amount and length of baseline) quantity of data.
I find it striking and a bit fearsome that the amount of CO2 put into the atmosphere by burning fossil reserves is correlating closely with the rise in atmospheric pCO2. That suggests that the clearance mechanism is near or at saturation, at least at the less-than-centuries timescale. The very tightly-correlated graph of pCO2 v. global temperature suggests we're in for consequential warming.

i also disagree with Doer on a key point: I think the greenhouse gas phenomenon is real and does not depend on speculative modeling to be revealed. Greenhouse effect is not exclusive to our atmosphere; it is demonstrable on other worlds in the Solar system and on smaller local models/experimental rigs. Taking a narrower focus, the debate is about the magnitude of the greenhouse effect being caused by the <pCO2 in our own atmosphere. The error bars are large, but they will tighten up with more data and better-built models. I posit that both extremes, shouting doom and dismissing the whole thing, are a toss of the baby with the bathwater.
 

Beefbisquit

Well-Known Member
In case you might be wondering about my lack of response Beefy....

You challenged me in a debate about logic and lost. Instead of admitting it and moving on you moved the goalposts and whined like a little bitch.

So I put you on ignore. Have a nice life....
That's why he said a logical fallacy can't be a question and I showed him a clear and concise example of how a question COULD be a logical fallacy. It literally took two seconds. You can see my example HERE

You can also see where he said 'science' doesn't do 'investigations', and he accused me of being a detective HERE LOLOLOL!!!!

HERE is where I prove what a scientific investigation is to this idiot.

NLXSK1 is WEE TODD ID.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Cool. Could you wave your wrists a little closer to your chest? Yeah! That is funny. Like T-Rex with a Rubic Cube. :)

If there is a model that shows this effect and not a cloud effect to compensate, could you please point it out to me, bitches? Else you are pouting like a religion, bitches.
 

Beefbisquit

Well-Known Member
DOER: I WANT EVIDENCE

BEEF: PRESENTS EVIDENCE

DOER: I WANT EVIDENCE

BEEF: PRESENTS EVIDENCE

DOER: I WANT EVIDENCE....


wow this is really fun.
 

Doer

Well-Known Member
No. Global Warming is a theory supported by a lot of data gathered in scientific research. Just as Black Holes are a theory supported by a great deal of evidence, and how Christianity is not science, supported by no tangible evidence.
So, Christian Scientists don't exist? Some extra normal EVENT, is not always the basis of every single religion? But, it is. You guys think up have seem the miracle. The revealed understanding. The Greenhouse Effect. That has never been proven. Go ahead over to google page 4 and find out.
Ignore the first 3 pages of shouting this down. A gram a hash for the one that brings the model to RIU that show Greenhouse Effect.

THE SKY IS BURNING!!!! But, woops. When we got down to it about 6 years ago, the new sat data sets did not agree. No models with the latest data and fine techniques can find it. Every UN finding is just a wavering confidence index and opinion polls. The last UN reports say we are flat. Taking on vast heat, but not warming. Maybe there are other forces at play we don't yet understand? HA. Are we even measuring yet, total

That does not stop a religion.

They make up vast explanations and say only the truly initiated and true of heart can see it. They will not admit it is religion, for it is Truth.

No science in this AGW fiasco. Just $$ and giveme, take from Big Oil, etc. And it is new Colonialism. The poor third world is dupped again.
 

Beefbisquit

Well-Known Member
So, Christian Scientists don't exist? Some extra normal EVENT, is not always the basis of every single religion. You guy think up have seem a miracle. THE SKY IS BURNING!!!! But, woops. When when we got down to it about 6 years ago, the new data sets did not agree. No models with the latest data and fine techniques can find it. Every UN finding is just a wavering confidence index and opinion polls. The last UN reports say we are flat.
You realize the ICPP was founded by the UN, right? And the latest report was done in Sept 2013 by ICPP (UN) and showed with 95% confidence that anthropogenic warming was almost certainly true.

Taking on vast heat, but not warming. Maybe there are other forces at play we don't yet understand? HA.

That does not stop a religion.

They make up vast explanations and say only the truly initiated and true of heart can see it. They will not admit it is religion, for it is Truth.

No science in this AGW fiasco. Just $$ and giveme, take from Big Oil, etc. And it is new Colonialism. The poor third world is dupped again.
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Every scientist that has confirmed that global warming is happening is a shadow puppet for some oil-company who's only interested in $$$. You are getting more and more crack-potish with every post.
 

see4

Well-Known Member
So, Christian Scientists don't exist? Some extra normal EVENT, is not always the basis of every single religion. You guys think up have seem the miracle. The revealed understanding. The Greenhouse.

THE SKY IS BURNING!!!! But, woops. When when we got down to it about 6 years ago, the new data sets did not agree. No models with the latest data and fine techniques can find it. Every UN finding is just a wavering confidence index and opinion polls. The last UN reports say we are flat. Taking on vast heat, but not warming. Maybe there are other forces at play we don't yet understand? HA.

That does not stop a religion.

They make up vast explanations and say only the truly initiated and true of heart can see it. They will not admit it is religion, for it is Truth.

No science in this AGW fiasco. Just $$ and giveme, take from Big Oil, etc. And it is new Colonialism. The poor third world is dupped again.
Just to let you know, you are completely wasting your time trying to convince me that religion is a science. It is not. It never will be.

higgs boson
 

Doer

Well-Known Member
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Every scientist that has confirmed that global warming is happening is a shadow puppet for some oil-company who's only interested in $$$. You are getting more and more crack-potish with every post.
What do you mean by confirmed? How did they do that? Describe the process. I say they have not. I say this has not been confirm either way.

It is you, not they, that are the shadow puppet. Name a prominent name and tell me how they confirmed it. No one will say that.

And why are you pee-pee dancing around the model question?
 
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