Chesusrice's Grater

[NLXSK1]

i don't see anyone re-distributing anything..for example?

Obamacare takes money from people depending on their income level and distribues "subsidies" to people of another income level. It is a direct transfer of wealth. That is called re-distribution.

Social Security is the other one I can easily point to. At one point there was a "Trust Fund" where all the money went. Now that has been looted empty and the money coming out of a check from a guy making minimum wage is being transferred directly to the payment for some grandmother. That is another example of re-distribution.

 

[canndo]

Where do you get your news canndo, give us a couple of sources, please.

La Times, NY Times, BBC, Washington post (and you DO know that it was labeled liberal by Nixon for entirely different reasons than it's being liberal, after all, he was being assaulted by them in particular). WSJ. and my favorite of all, the Christian Science Monitor - the most unbiased newspaper in the country.


How about you

 

[canndo]

I dont want the government to redistribute wealth and use the taxpayers for it's social experiments...

Is that unreasonable?

In these times? yes it is.

 

[canndo]

Lol, what a complete load of shit. You apparently excuse NBC, ABC, CBS, HUFF POST, NY TIMES, WASH POST, LA TIMES, MSNBC and countless others for doing the exact same fucking thing with Harry Reid's lie about Romney not paying taxes for 10 years. Unnamed source with an outrageous lie, splashed across the MSM without ANY fact checking.

But, those bastions of higher journalism (vomit) are excused for some reason I'm sure you'll manufacture. And the constant parroting of ANYTHING the administration claims, until it's exposed as horseshit, doesn't completely invalidate that steaming pile of yours I just quoted?

Like Politifact rating Obama's "You can keep..." promise, true in 2008. Then rating Romneys ACCURATE claim of dropped policies false. Now, it's their lie of the year without any mention of their previous position.

There was plenty of evidence it was a lie out of the gate. We now know Obama was being told by his own people it was false as he was repeating it over 23 times. But, your precious MSM couldn't squawk loud and long enough in support of the claim.

You are delusional if you think ANY of the major media sources you view, are in any way more fair and balanced than Fox. You just hear what you want to hear.

I wasn't defending Fox, I was just refuting the claim they had affirmed or actually agreed with the source's statement, not just presented it. I know they're full of shit. The difference is you think your sources aren't JUST as full of shit.

the fact remains - Fox viewers are the least iinformed and most misinformed people in America. There are hundreds of examples of Fox misleading people, and very few of the others you mention. If Fox watchers are so informationaly impared, and CNN viewers are not so much, then logic stands that they are not all equally full of shit.

oh, we never did find out of Romney paid his taxes or not, did we.

 

[canndo]

Obamacare takes money from people depending on their income level and distribues "subsidies" to people of another income level. It is a direct transfer of wealth. That is called re-distribution.

Social Security is the other one I can easily point to. At one point there was a "Trust Fund" where all the money went. Now that has been looted empty and the money coming out of a check from a guy making minimum wage is being transferred directly to the payment for some grandmother. That is another example of re-distribution.

ALL taxation is "redistribution of wealth". What are you bitching about?

 

[NLXSK1]

ALL taxation is "redistribution of wealth". What are you bitching about?

No, it is not.

If you build a road that everyone can use it does not re-distribute wealth. If you take money from one person and give it to another person directly it is re-distribution of wealth. The lottery is a voluntary re-distribution of wealth. The government programs I showed as examples are mandatory confiscatory re-distributions of wealth.

That is not what the government was founded to do. In fact it was founded to not do much but has re-interpreted the constitution to define it's ability to invade every aspect of my life. I cannot legally purchase nor install a 2 gallon flush toilet because it uses too much water. I cannot buy incandescent light bulbs anymore cause they use too much electricity. Never mind that the rich guy up the street can build a multi-million dollar mansion with 10 toilets, running urinals and stadium lighting over his 50,000 gallon swimming pool.

Government has become too intrusive in people's lives.... If you dont see that then I cant help you.

 

[canndo]

No, it is not.

If you build a road that everyone can use it does not re-distribute wealth. If you take money from one person and give it to another person directly it is re-distribution of wealth. The lottery is a voluntary re-distribution of wealth. The government programs I showed as examples are mandatory confiscatory re-distributions of wealth.

That is not what the government was founded to do. In fact it was founded to not do much but has re-interpreted the constitution to define it's ability to invade every aspect of my life. I cannot legally purchase nor install a 2 gallon flush toilet because it uses too much water. I cannot buy incandescent light bulbs anymore cause they use too much electricity. Never mind that the rich guy up the street can build a multi-million dollar mansion with 10 toilets, running urinals and stadium lighting over his 50,000 gallon swimming pool.

Government has become too intrusive in people's lives.... If you dont see that then I cant help you.

We build a road, I drive a two thousand lb car, you drive a three ton truck, we both pay the same tax for the road. The guy with the million dollar house pays the same amount for protection from incursion as you pay. He has more to lose, but he doesn't pay more for our military, or the local fire department.

The government is founded upon several things, one of those is to protect us from tyranny of all sorts, from it's own inherent tendency toward tyranny and also from the tyranny of unregulated business, from others poisoning our water, air, land and food. Cheating of any sort, of the masses is tyranny as well.

What you describe is a certain tyranny and that is the confiscation of the commons to the benefit of the few. The more water you consume the more rare it becomes, the more rare it becomes the more I have to pay for it. You cannot buy incandescent lights because power is not infinite and the more someone else uses the more I have to pay for it.

Government abuse is a part of the problem, the rich guy's excess is the other. Wealth redistribution takes many forms. We shall soon see, when gasoline shortages affect you but not the guy living in his gated community. He can pay $12 bucks a gallon, you cannot and his consumption is why the price is the way it is.

 

[schuylaar]

Obamacare takes money from people depending on their income level and distribues "subsidies" to people of another income level. It is a direct transfer of wealth. That is called re-distribution.

Social Security is the other one I can easily point to. At one point there was a "Trust Fund" where all the money went. Now that has been looted empty and the money coming out of a check from a guy making minimum wage is being transferred directly to the payment for some grandmother. That is another example of re-distribution.

Guess then we should raise minimum wage, eh?

but isn't this re-distribution from the taxes we pay?..that I pay every year?..aren't we all supposed to be chipping in?

 

[schuylaar]

No, it is not.

If you build a road that everyone can use it does not re-distribute wealth. If you take money from one person and give it to another person directly it is re-distribution of wealth. The lottery is a voluntary re-distribution of wealth. The government programs I showed as examples are mandatory confiscatory re-distributions of wealth.

That is not what the government was founded to do. In fact it was founded to not do much but has re-interpreted the constitution to define it's ability to invade every aspect of my life. I cannot legally purchase nor install a 2 gallon flush toilet because it uses too much water. I cannot buy incandescent light bulbs anymore cause they use too much electricity. Never mind that the rich guy up the street can build a multi-million dollar mansion with 10 toilets, running urinals and stadium lighting over his 50,000 gallon swimming pool.

Government has become too intrusive in people's lives.... If you dont see that then I cant help you.

Taking money to build roads are usually offset by tolls collected.

Taxpayers pay the IRS..this is called revenue.

the government takes the revenue (that no longer belongs to the taxpayer) and pays its bills accordingly and funds programs.

 

[schuylaar]

We build a road, I drive a two thousand lb car, you drive a three ton truck, we both pay the same tax for the road. The guy with the million dollar house pays the same amount for protection from incursion as you pay. He has more to lose, but he doesn't pay more for our military, or the local fire department.

The government is founded upon several things, one of those is to protect us from tyranny of all sorts, from it's own inherent tendency toward tyranny and also from the tyranny of unregulated business, from others poisoning our water, air, land and food. Cheating of any sort, of the masses is tyranny as well.

What you describe is a certain tyranny and that is the confiscation of the commons to the benefit of the few. The more water you consume the more rare it becomes, the more rare it becomes the more I have to pay for it. You cannot buy incandescent lights because power is not infinite and the more someone else uses the more I have to pay for it.

Government abuse is a part of the problem, the rich guy's excess is the other. Wealth redistribution takes many forms. We shall soon see, when gasoline shortages affect you but not the guy living in his gated community. He can pay $12 bucks a gallon, you cannot and his consumption is why the price is the way it is.

Standing ovation!

 

[ChesusRice]

No, it is not.

If you build a road that everyone can use it does not re-distribute wealth. If you take money from one person and give it to another person directly it is re-distribution of wealth. The lottery is a voluntary re-distribution of wealth. The government programs I showed as examples are mandatory confiscatory re-distributions of wealth.

That is not what the government was founded to do. In fact it was founded to not do much but has re-interpreted the constitution to define it's ability to invade every aspect of my life. I cannot legally purchase nor install a 2 gallon flush toilet because it uses too much water. I cannot buy incandescent light bulbs anymore cause they use too much electricity. Never mind that the rich guy up the street can build a multi-million dollar mansion with 10 toilets, running urinals and stadium lighting over his 50,000 gallon swimming pool.

Government has become too intrusive in people's lives.... If you dont see that then I cant help you.

So it seems you have a problem with the millionaire up the street with 10 toilets and a 50k swimming pool. But rail against income redistribution ?

 

[Antidisestablishmentarian]

Taking money to build roads are usually offset by tolls collected.

Taxpayers pay the IRS..this is called revenue.

the government takes the revenue (that no longer belongs to the taxpayer) and pays its bills accordingly and funds programs.

In my view it is always the taxpayers money.

The government is supposed to be ours. Therefore making the money, ours.

 

[Antidisestablishmentarian]

So it seems you have a problem with the millionaire up the street with 10 toilets and a 50k swimming pool. But rail against income redistribution ?

No, he seems to have an issue with the fact he can't have one 2 gallon toilet, but if he had money he could have 10 toilets plus urinals running wasting more water than a simple 2 gal toilet. And he blames the government.

 

[ChesusRice]

No, he seems to have an issue with the fact he can't have one 2 gallon toilet, but if he had money he could have 10 toilets plus urinals running wasting more water than a simple 2 gal toilet. And he blames the government.

So he wants to waste water and feels the Goverment is impeding his dream of depleting natural resources?

i'm not understanding what his problem is

 

[collector]

i had an epiphany last night about republicans after talking with see4, bucky and eche.

i figured them out.

small goverment = do what the fuck they want no regulation

law of the land = the bible

so you see republicans why this would never work:

1. you've already shown yourselves to be untrustworthy which is why we need to regulate your asses

2. a mythical dead guys teachings from a bazillion years ago doesn't apply in this time and age

The way I see it is:
Both "Parties" have progressively destroyed this nation with left right combo punches. That We are collectively played like fools.
Both the left and right wing are part of the same dirty bird.

They say:
"WE NEED Small government"
oops terrorist attack
The result is we get More laws plus a bigger govt then we had before..
We always need to give up something...

"WE NEED Less Banking regulation"
oops financial weapons of mass destruction implode the economy.
result is that now there is more obscurity, distortion and opaqueness in the financial sector.
Now we are more financially worse off than before.
We always need to give up something.

They play the position AND opposition.

We are played.

 

[UncleBuck]

Who gave you that right?

you guys did. and the constitution.

your rights end where they harm others. you guys don't seem to get this concept. you guys think you can harm others and claim it as your right to do so.

 

[NLXSK1]

We build a road, I drive a two thousand lb car, you drive a three ton truck, we both pay the same tax for the road. The guy with the million dollar house pays the same amount for protection from incursion as you pay. He has more to lose, but he doesn't pay more for our military, or the local fire department.

The government is founded upon several things, one of those is to protect us from tyranny of all sorts, from it's own inherent tendency toward tyranny and also from the tyranny of unregulated business, from others poisoning our water, air, land and food. Cheating of any sort, of the masses is tyranny as well.

What you describe is a certain tyranny and that is the confiscation of the commons to the benefit of the few. The more water you consume the more rare it becomes, the more rare it becomes the more I have to pay for it. You cannot buy incandescent lights because power is not infinite and the more someone else uses the more I have to pay for it.

Government abuse is a part of the problem, the rich guy's excess is the other. Wealth redistribution takes many forms. We shall soon see, when gasoline shortages affect you but not the guy living in his gated community. He can pay $12 bucks a gallon, you cannot and his consumption is why the price is the way it is.

I was referring to direct wealth distribution, I showed examples and your excuse is that everyone does it??? That it happens alot??

The constitution is a document limiting government power. The government has corrupted it though the use of the commerce clause to get into all aspects of our lives. We as individual citizens should not even be dealing with the federal government. The federal government was established to handle differences between the states, not be the all encompassing power it has come to be.

The reason gas prices are the way they are is supply and demand. The government will not let drilling happen in the US without a fight. Barak Obama publicly stated that you can build a coal power plant but the government will bankrupt you with taxes if you try to run it. The reason gas prices are the way they are is taxes tacked on top of the cost and then you pay sales tax on top of that. It is not because some rich guy can afford 12 bucks a gallon for gas. He would rather pay 2 bucks just like I would.

It appears that you agreed with me before you drove the thread off into the weeds.

I guess you dont feel that re-distribution is a bad thing. Well, as long as the government does it. If 2 guys walking down the street decide to re-distribute the contents of your wallet amongst themselves that is multiple crimes.

 

[NLXSK1]

Taking money to build roads are usually offset by tolls collected.

Taxpayers pay the IRS..this is called revenue.

the government takes the revenue (that no longer belongs to the taxpayer) and pays its bills accordingly and funds programs.

Many states do not have toll roads. In addition you are talking about state funds. I am not aware of any federal toll roads.

Yes, I get the revenue part. However, now taxpayers making more money are being taxed an additional fee through their healthcare to subsidize other people directly. You do not have a problem with that and I do which was my statement in the first place.

Are you trying to convince me that additional taxation is actually a good thing??

 

[ChesusRice]

Many states do not have toll roads. In addition you are talking about state funds. I am not aware of any federal toll roads.

Yes, I get the revenue part. However, now taxpayers making more money are being taxed an additional fee through their healthcare to subsidize other people directly. You do not have a problem with that and I do which was my statement in the first place.

Are you trying to convince me that additional taxation is actually a good thing??

So you can obviously point out that Americans are paying more in taxes now than they have in the last 80 years. Right?

Please do so

 

[NLXSK1]

So it seems you have a problem with the millionaire up the street with 10 toilets and a 50k swimming pool. But rail against income redistribution ?

No. I have a problem with the government making rules that dont apply to everyone equally. I believe I should be able to have a 50 gallon flush toilet if I want and pay for the water accordingly. The electrical system has a tiered payment schedule as well. If you use more you pay more.

I said I had a problem with wealth re-distribution. You demanded I show you examples. I demonstrated quite clearly how both the Social Security system in it's current form and Obamacare are wealth re-distribution. Now you want to argue with me about it and I am not interested.