"The big secret"

[Dan Kone]

Well now that the cat is out of the bag how do we feel about this?

First off, it's not even cold water as I thought, it's bho in absolute form with additional terpenes in a propyl glycol base. I don't have a problem with that, but I do have a problem with them advertising it as solventless. That's very deceptive. The logic behind it is that because they got all the solvent out it's solvent free. By that logic lots of BHO is solvent free.

Solventless refers to the process not just the result. It's for people who want a natural product. Personally I disagree that solventless is better, but I respect the people consuming it enough not to lie about it. All concentrate makers need to have that respect for people who consume their products IMO. People have the right to know what they are consuming.

For that reason, I think they have a good idea but how they are executing it is really shady.

 

[Daub Marley]

Well said. I think that they probably could kill two birds with one stone by saying its solventless. They didn't want the feds after them, and for marketing obv. I agree that it's shady advertising on the soventless aspect, but how do you feel about the added terpenes from non-cannabis sources? I'm on the fence about how I feel about this and I'd like to hear some different viewpoints.

 

[Dan Kone]

Well said. I think that they probably could kill two birds with one stone by saying its solventless. They didn't want the feds after them, and for marketing obv. I agree that it's shady advertising on the soventless aspect, but how do you feel about the added terpenes from non-cannabis sources? I'm on the fence about how I feel about this and I'd like to hear some different viewpoints.

Personally I really don't care where the terpenes came from. If they are the same terpenes then chemically it's the same thing regardless of the source. The only other addition there would be the propyl glycol which is a harmless food safe product. From a scientific standpoint I'm ok with it. From an advertising standpoint they are being shady as fuck.

 

[Twitch]

so on the side of your can of Coke or your Gatorade it says artificial flavoring added.... i think they should have to do the same then, put on the packaging artificial favoring added, i dont think it would be enforceable because like the title says secret, so it doesnt appear they(authorities) are looking at how everyone is blasting their hash.
if its coming from an outside source and not off the plant that was blasted its artificial, i don't care if the terpene profiles are identical

 

[Fadedawg]

Personally I really don't care where the terpenes came from. If they are the same terpenes then chemically it's the same thing regardless of the source. The only other addition there would be the propyl glycol which is a harmless food safe product. From a scientific standpoint I'm ok with it. From an advertising standpoint they are being shady as fuck.

There in lies the rub! We don't know enough about what all is in the natural essential oils, to know what all they comprise. In The Chemistry of Essential Oils Made Simple, Stewart notes that so far they've found around 150 constitutes in Orange Oil, and have many times that many yet to go.

Terpenes are interesting from the standpoint that the right and left hand arrangements of the exact same molecule changes its properties considerably. As I recall, Dill and Spearmint are identical molecules, except one is right handed and the other is left.

The Lebermuth Co is one of the largest suppliers of essential oils in the US, and has labs specifically designed to develop any taste or odor profile that you desire. I'm guessing that it might be easier to consistently produce a flavor and taste profile, that to exactly reproduce what makes a given strain unique.

 

[Dan Kone]

The Lebermuth Co is one of the largest suppliers of essential oils in the US, and has labs specifically designed to develop any taste or odor profile that you desire. I'm guessing that it might be easier to consistently produce a flavor and taste profile, that to exactly reproduce what makes a given strain unique.

Went and checked it out. They are getting bottles of isolated terpenes from SAFC.

 

[Daub Marley]

There in lies the rub! We don't know enough about what all is in the natural essential oils, to know what all they comprise. In The Chemistry of Essential Oils Made Simple, Stewart notes that so far they've found around 150 constitutes in Orange Oil, and have many times that many yet to go.

Terpenes are interesting from the standpoint that the right and left hand arrangements of the exact same molecule changes its properties considerably. As I recall, Dill and Spearmint are identical molecules, except one is right handed and the other is left.

The Lebermuth Co is one of the largest suppliers of essential oils in the US, and has labs specifically designed to develop any taste or odor profile that you desire. I'm guessing that it might be easier to consistently produce a flavor and taste profile, that to exactly reproduce what makes a given strain unique.

So recreating the terpene/flavor of a specific strain is too complex, but your saying that Lebermuth Co would probably have the most experience?

 

[Dan Kone]

So recreating the terpene/flavor of a specific strain is too complex, but your saying that Lebermuth Co would probably have the most experience?

He's correct in saying you probably couldn't recreate it to be a scientifically indistinguishable match, but you can get it close enough for taste buds in a dab form.

 

[SnapsProvolone]

Went and checked it out. They are getting bottles of isolated terpenes from SAFC.

View attachment 2995718

I would for sure pass on the addition of Phytol after a glance at the MSDS from S-A.

 

[SnapsProvolone]

so on the side of your can of Coke or your Gatorade it says artificial flavoring added.... i think they should have to do the same then, put on the packaging artificial favoring added, i dont think it would be enforceable because like the title says secret, so it doesnt appear they(authorities) are looking at how everyone is blasting their hash.
if its coming from an outside source and not off the plant that was blasted its artificial, i don't care if the terpene profiles are identical

I'm with you, chemically identical or not imho its the other 1.?% of stuff that didn't come from cannabis that bothers me.

 

[R&RHashman]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Sirdabsalot462 again.

Shit be fuct up yo ....

If the Terpinol was recovered from the water and added back to the concentrate then I reckon there is no harm no foul.

With that being said....
Why keep this a secret?

Secrecy in the cannabis community seems counter intuitive to our culture of ” sharing and love”

It is the spirit of cannabis..
” to share”

Aka..

Passum peace pipe.


Terps are lost in water but can be recovered with the proper micron catch.
I read somewhere that about a coffee filter-ish size micron will capture these ” lost terps”..

I do understand that especially with the legalization movement, some trade secrets must be kept that way to protect the integrity of the product.


I mean, I have expended a shit ton of reading and hands on trial & error to create hash oil..
No secrets are kept...

I desire the world to have and share the best hash oil.

Secrecy hinders our progression..

could not agree more man

 

[Daub Marley]

I'm with you, chemically identical or not imho its the other 1.?% of stuff that didn't come from cannabis that bothers me.

I really think the whole issue of infusing concentrates is going to split the cannabis community just like BHO and water ice hash. Its not going anywhere and IMHO if enough people don't like it then concentrates that do capture the natural terpenes of the strain should be priced accordingly, but if people really aren't concerned about the health effects of those chemicals which are that 1% then the mom and pop operations will have a much harder time if they stick it out through legalization.

 

[SnapsProvolone]

When concentrating your trying to remove the non psychoactive ingredient so I am in favor of extraction and winterization but not in favor of adding anything back, especially if it did not come from the plant material originally extracted from.

 

[chewberto]

If you don't mind this practice, You're looking at it all wrong! If the terpenes from the product that was extracted was not sufficient enough in the first place, why the fuck would I want to smoke that tasteless shit at 80 bucks a gram recreated? Adding terpenes is a bitch ass fronting move ImO! Like adding those flavor drops to your weed. Have some class and a some standards to adhere to for Christ sake! This is unacceptable, this is medicine for a lot of folks! Next step Monsanto with people who condone this crap!

 

[chewberto]

Sorry snaps! I just read your post! You're looking at thiS all Right! Lol I drank crown booze tonight! I never drink, like at all!

 

[SnapsProvolone]

It's all good. I've done the same thing.

 

[chewberto]

Yeah, I better stop posting for the night. Seems like I can't control myself! Good night everyone!

 

[lio lacidem]

I agree 100% chew nothing should be added.

 

[Dan Kone]

If you don't mind this practice, You're looking at it all wrong! If the terpenes from the product that was extracted was not sufficient enough in the first place, why the fuck would I want to smoke that tasteless shit at 80 bucks a gram recreated? Adding terpenes is a bitch ass fronting move ImO! Like adding those flavor drops to your weed. Have some class and a some standards to adhere to for Christ sake! This is unacceptable, this is medicine for a lot of folks! Next step Monsanto with people who condone this crap!

People want what they want. As long as people are correctly labeling and advertising their products then why shouldn't consumers be allowed to make that choice for themselves?

 

[BCOGYODA]

I'm with you Chewberto. If a product is crap it should be sold as crap and not "masked" in order to get it sold.