that's funny, since you argue that taxes do not help the poor. see below.
This was your claim, Buck: "taxes are voluntary.
and jesus supported taxes (especially those that might go to feed the poor, like food stamps), he said so specifically in his "render unto caesar" schtick."
Jesus said that paying the tax in question was lawful. That's it. I already quoted the text. The tax was a poll tax (there's no dispute whatsoever in scholarship about the nature of the tax--I already checked). The tax had absolutely nothing to do with serving the poor in any way.
How can you possibly say "Jesus supported taxes
...especially those that might go to feed the poor"? You've got no textual evidence despite your claim that he "
said so SPECIFICALLY." Where? Render unto Caesar? That's about the religious lawfulness of the tax! It has nothing to do with helping the poor! All you have is Jesus saying that yes, paying the taxes Caesar demands is lawful and presents no religious problem for the Jews inquiring.
wooops, you just called yourself an idiot.
actually, that's not a woops, but an accurate descriptor.
I'm not arguing that paying taxes is giving to the poor. I said that the vast majority of tax money doesn't help the poor, with only a very small portion serving that purpose, which is why paying taxes is not charity. What do you not comprehend about this position that caused you to invert it?
again, that's funny. especially because YOU brought it up in the first place.
you're arguing in circles against yourself.
I said that Jesus didn't advocate
forcing the rich to give to the poor through taxation. Instead he urged the rich to sell their possessions and give the money to the poor voluntarily. You focused on force and "voluntary" because you tried to assert that taxes are an entirely voluntary payment to the poor.
Since only a tiny portion of federal tax dollars goes toward supporting the poor, as I already explained, payment of taxes cannot possibly be construed as giving to the poor. That's why the question of whether paying taxes is voluntary--the question YOU raised, Buck--is irrelevant. There's no circle here.
it's a good thing some people voluntarily CHOOSE to work then.
anthropomorphic fallacy aside, you're conceding that work, and thus paying taxes, is voluntary.[/quote]
What's the point of responding if you're going to ignore what I already said about your points? If your body is coercing you to do something you aren't choosing to act, and if you're hungry your body will coerce you to act. You can pretend it's voluntary all you want, but in reality you've got very little control over those primal hunger impulses. There is no actual choice. It's like saying I choose to breathe--I certainly can choose to take a breath or not at any particular time, but I don't consciously choose to breath. My body compels it.
how did people ever live past infancy before taxation existed?
damn, this is too funny now.
I'm glad you're finding amusement in your little logical fallacies, Buck. I obviously never said taxation killed anyone. I said work is necessary for humans to survive and thus not truly voluntary. Accordingly, taxation cannot possibly be construed as voluntary either, because people don't choose to be taxed--they have no choice, they need to work.
For taxation to be voluntary, as you argue it is, work must be voluntary, for everyone, such that everyone has the opportunity to choose to work and pay taxes or not, without any coercion whatsoever. Otherwise taxation is not truly voluntary. If anyone works because they have to work--to feed their families, whatever--they don't voluntarily pay tax, they pay tax because the government commanded it as a share of their work.
To be clear, I am not taking the position opposite yours, that all work is involuntary. I assert that some people have the legitimate choice to work or not work and that others have no choice. For example, I went to grad school with someone from a wealthy family who had a trust fund. He didn't have to work (indeed, I don't think he does). I have no such fortune. I have to work (or become a welfare sponge, which you seem to present as a totally acceptable choice, but the welfare system could not possibly support everyone in this country who must work to survive).
I have worked on Capitol Hill, spent time in those congressional office buildings and in the Capitol itself. Ask me questions about the basements or the non-public subway under the Capitol complex and I'll answer them with flying colors, because I've been there working.
