The Official House and Garden Thread

[Sativied]

When H&G starts adding Calcium into their Cocos line i'll probably move back over. I hate mixing so many things into our resevoirs, too time consuming when you have a bunch of plants.

Their Coca A+B does contain Calcium, actually more Calcium than in their other offerings:

"These formulas contain far less potassium, less sulfate, more calcium, and more magnesium than their standard grow and bloom counterparts. By using a nutrient specifically formulated for the coir-based system, such as House & Garden’s Cocos A+B, you are ensuring that your plants are receiving the best possible nutrition package."
src: http://www.house-garden.us/articles/guide-to-growing-in-coco/

 

[Sativied]

My system start to be clean and root are looking good i talk with support from H&G and this what they advice :

Thanks for sharing that. I would indeed stay away from the Algae in a DWC. Root excel should be used at half the doses when using airpumps+stones (they recently added a note about that on the feed charts/calc).

Amino was one I was considering on trying out, interesting he recommends against it. I stopped using Root Excelurator and my roots are healthier than ever, I literally see no benefit from using it, only downsides (stains roots and makes filters dirty and the bottle is expensive regardless of their sales story about having to use little).

I think if your system and roots are clean I wouldn't add anything else and continue doing what you do. Then perhaps next round add something to see if there's a difference.

 

[alexkil]

Thanks Sativied
But still i confused which calculator to use US or Canada
In Canada they write amount of A&B but for each or total?
I understand that Amino also have some silica and even if you are look to DWC chart it there
Than it a little strange that they say to stay a way.
What you can say about Magic Green ?

 

[Sativied]

I started with the calculator but that's way too high. Use 1/3-1/2 of the recommendation on the bottle and measure the ppm. If it drops over a day you can increase it a bit, if it climbs add some water. I'm currently doing a 480ppm run. H&G calcs/charts results in roughly 600-900ppm without additives.

I like Magic Green, bottle lasts a long time too. I use it only 2 or 3 times, during the short time I veg and early in transition. It can mess up the leaves badly if you use the recommended dosis and don't spray it off with clean water before the lights turn on. I use roughly 1/3 to 1/2 of the recommended dosis. Dont't use on seedlings and don't use during flowering (don't spray it on pistils/buds). Also make sure none of it drips in the buckets as it will mess up the nute solution quickly, same for causing algea on perlite when growing hempy.

Yeah I hear you on Amino, strange indeed, maybe they got some bad feedback from customers with a DWC setup.

 

[youknowthekid!]

sativied are you confusing the algen extract with the amino treatment? because they're different. I intended to use the amino in DWC in the future since my last H&G DWC was great, but left me with thin ass stalks; I was hoping adding amino could really make the difference, but I'm going to stay away from the gunky algen extract. Also, I never had a major issue with roots excel, in fact it gave me amazing results.

 

[Sativied]

sativied are you confusing the algen extract with the amino treatment?

Nope.

 

[alexkil]

I think that all product delivered from kind of kelp is the problem in Dwc/Bubbleponic.
But Amino i don't know from what it delivered

 

[youknowthekid!]

I'm going to give it a shot. If it gunks up my bucket too much I'll go ahead and enlist some liquid silica or something to beef stalks.

 

[Sativied]

Nice, keep us posted please.

I can't say I recognize the problem with thin stalks. Had to chop some out of my system. Actually they seem a little skinnier now with the H&G +GHE test I'm doing and I was wondering yesterday how much influence Mutlizen might have had in the past.

 

[alexkil]

Listen do you know h&g product trace mix?

 

[Sativied]

I've seen it but have no use for it as my water combined with the regular nutes contain plenty of micros. H&G is supposedly suitable for RO water and should contain plenty by itself. Maybe if you have a particular strain (or something else than cannabis) that requires more micros it may be useful.

 

[duudical]

I am using Aqua Flakes A+B, Roots Excelurator, Drip Clean, Multi Zen, and Magic Green currently (plus Orca root inoculant and Z7 water conditioner) in veg. Going to add the Bud XL and the Top Shooter to my flower regimen for sure. I am debating on adding the Algen Extract and the Amino Treatment in the future just to round it out and to see if I can push my veg rate even further. If there's no notable difference from now I will likely use them up and not replenish.

I agree with what was said about the 250ml bottles. If you get Magic Green or RE, get the smallest bottles. You don't get that much of a $ break between 250ml and 500ml and you don't want that stuff going bad. Anyone leave Magic Green in a spray bottle overnight? Smells completely like sh*t. But, that sh*t works! If you have a plant looking a little stressed or deficient, a good stop gap measure is to foliar feed them with the Magic Green while you dial in your nutrient solution.Also, depending on your grow space you can spray with the lights on. I just pull them out from my T5 one at a time and spray them - after about 20 min, I slide them back in and have never had any issues with burning. Might only really be an issue with HID though. I currently spray them about twice a week. Their feeding chart says every 2 weeks, however after reading around and consulting some H&G folks, more frequent is fine as long as you tune into your plants and make adjustments as needed.

I have seen impressive growth in veg, however am not using the AF A+B in flower - using Heavy16 Bloom A+B and Dutch Master Potash+ currently, but want to add the Bud XL once the Potash+ is gone. I plan on starting the Top Shooter on a plant that will be in its 6th week of flower in a couple of weeks.

But I can definitely attest to water farm + H&G = veg success for me so far. My res temps definitely climb over 72 and I have no slime, no build up or any kind of gunk anywhere. And thick, thick stems like I have never had. I don't know if it is in large part to H&G, or if it only plays a small role in a lot of elements coming together lately, but I can say that if things stayed like this, I would not be disappointed - not satisfied of course.....never....but not disappointed at least

 

[Sativied]

Their feeding chart says every 2 weeks, however after reading around and consulting some H&G folks, more frequent is fine as long as you tune into your plants and make adjustments as needed.

Yes it also differs per chart/calc/site/bottle. The recommended doses on the bottle 1-2 times a week max. They do mention clearly it should be used 5 min after the light goes off (which is to prevent the issue I mentioned earlier, which indeed I only had under HID).

And yeah, it does smell like shit if you leave it in the spray bottle just a night.

Thanks for sharing your experience with H&G.

 

[alexkil]

What do you think can i use Root EX for seedling?
Or what you can advice for seedling?

 

[duudical]

What do you think can i use Root EX for seedling?
Or what you can advice for seedling?

You can. I typically soak my medium in a weak solution of pH'd water, RE, a few drops of orca and a few drops of H16 Prime. Seems to work great and produce incredibly strong seedlings.

 

[youknowthekid!]

H&G A component NPK 3-0-3
H&G B component NPK 1-3-6
AB Combined: NPK 4-3-9

When using little or no Multizen (4-0-1) during veg, that's not a bad ratio at all. Last round I used a little more A than B during veg and transitioning, basically wanted to see if I could get away with using just A and B. The combined N-P-K of 4-3-9 is very doable during veg but while I'm not a big fan of high P boosters or high P throughout the entire flowering phase, I essentially want to lower the N slowly during the flowering stage, while increasing the P a bit.

GHE (FloraDuo) Bloom is 1-5-3. I know of some growers who use merely that product (without Grow, which is 5-0-5) and go straight to 12/12 (from rooted clones), and do fine yield-wise but often end up with premature yellowing and a yellow harvest. GHE Bloom alone is too high on P (imo), I don't want to the P to be higher than the K at any point. As you can see, by combining some GHE Bloom with H&G AB I can effectively lower the N and give it a little PK boost in week 5/6 (GHE Bloom+ extra H&G B).

The past few rounds with H&G led to the best and most frosty results I had, it'll be interesting to see how using GHE Bloom as an additive will influence that, or hopefully won't. If it doesn't work out and end up with premature yellowing, I may use Bud XL again next round. Also being 4-0-1, it's odd, because others (Canna, or take Ripen with zero N from GHE for example) tend to focus on P and K at the end of the flowering period, while Bud XL is mostly N and zero P. If I wouldn't know better by now, that would 'feel' like adding veg/grow nutes at the end. It more than evens out if you use the high PK shooter but while I'm pretty sure the XL means little to nothing, I have wondered several times if and how much it influenced the result quality-wise.

NECRO ALERT lol

Sativied, do you think if I use the whole H&G line (minus amino/algen) in flower, but cut A+B to 50% and use 50% GHE bloom that the stretch would be much less severe? I'm trying to reach a good compromise like yourself without chopping any of the H&G line given my past results.

 

[Sativied]

Only if you do it during the transition, so during the initial 12/12 period it's still vegetating. Once the plant is fully in flowering phase it's too late. And of course not till a point where leaves get light or even yellow, just to dim the veg power of the H&G line a little. 50-50 during transition may be a it too much though that's what I used later in flowering till pretty much the end. Although I didn't use multizym.

Top shooter, booster, bud xl, and anything else you use after the transition won't affect it. Multizym sort of balances out partly the effect of the change caused by adding ghe bloom which makes it hard for me to suggest a certain HG-GHE ratio. It will likely differ quite a bit per strain too, you may get the desired results simply by reducing or stopping sooner with Multizym during the transition.

I just started harvesting the H&G+GHE bloom run yesterday. Results look good so far, no idea yet of total weight but the buds finished nicely, plants still mostly green but not as dark as in previous run, buds compact. I have to say the taste and smell seems a little less, just a tad and might have any of many other reasons (different more humid season requires me to aim fans partly at buds).

I'm going to continue with the H&G + GHE Bloom combi, but will probably get Multizym again. Basically for the same purpose as GHE bloom but changing the ratio (more N and some K) during veg only (stopping as soon as I flip the switch to 12/12).

 

[youknowthekid!]

Thanks for the advice brother!

 

[BigLittlejohn]

I still use amino, but I've cut Algen completely. It mucks up my DWC buckets.

 

[BigLittlejohn]

Wow a lot has changed in 4 years.. Can't believe it's been that long since I wrote this thread .. I opened a Hydroponics store in 2010 and have learned quite a bit since which I'll share with everyone.

I've spent many hours learning and educating myself on plants & plant nutrients including h&g and others. I still believe h&g is a unique line & was one of the pioneers in modern day plant nutrients. H&G was originally formulated for roses. Van De Zwaan and his crew were some of Hollands largest commercial producers of roses. I think they quickly realized what crop was their bread and butter and have tweaked the line accordingly. Since my original post they have created several new products & changed several of the names & compositions of their products. I have no experience (in fact have never touched) a bottle of the Hydro nutrient or the Aarde organic line. My experience is based strictly off the US versions of aqua flakes, cocos & soil bases. I'll give a quick run down on each product as I see it.

Of the 3 bases I would certainly say Aqua Flakes is the standout. For recirculating hydro systems you'd be hard pressed to find a cleaner, more stable & effective base. It was designed to be recirculated with pumps that draw mineral element from the water so you won't have any cal/mag issues that are present with some other nutrients when using mag drive pumps. It works INCREDIBLY well in Coco coir also, maybe even better than Cocos a&b. Soil & Coco work great as well but Aqua Flakes is certainly the flagship base for h&g.

Amino treatment was not around when I started this thread. Let me tell you.. This product is worth every penny and you can justify the cost in any feeding regimen. Composed of Amino acids, Silica & other proprietary ingredients, Amino WILL make a noticeable difference on your crop. Plants are all around larger, more resistant to stress and the internodes are stacked much tighter. Amino paves the way for enormous buds period. Please refrain from other silica products when using Amino as it becomes redundant. Buy only what you'll use for one run as this stuff will get a little gross if you leave it sitting for prolonged periods of time.

As for roots excel, the product that brought me to h&g, it has been modified and sold in a new gold bottle. Insiders say it was due to one of the ingredients and US labeling issues. The consistency has changed, it is much more liquidy now as opposed to gooey which is nice for DWC & hydro systems. Unfortunately I think, while it still has a cult following & sells by the boatload, the change actually resulted in a slightly lesser quality product. The jury is still out on this one. We're running extensive testing, will let you know. Many of our customers use GH rapid start successfully as a cheaper substitution.

Algen extract is a kelp extract veg additive. It's extremely thick & dark, do not suggest it for hydro. Even h&g recommends it at 10% strength in hydro systems. Keeps plants extremely lush & green in coco/dirt. Only buy what you'll need for a run as it will goo up on you after time.

Nitrogen boost is another new one. Made specifically for markets like America where we grow large plants due to plant count restrictions. All of h&g bases are low nitrogen. They were designed for growers in Holland who grow short plants on tray tables with very little veg time that require very little nitrogen. The bases are geared towards the blooming phase of a plants life which is why nitrogen boost was created. Supplement with 1-4ml/gal throughout veg if needed.

Drip clean still rocks. .4ml/gal so this product goes a Long way. USE THIS PRODUCT FROM DAY ONE. DO NOT START USING MID WAY. If you have any type of residual salt build up already and begin using it, it will release all of the salts from your drip lines & growing media and wreak havoc ESPECIALLY IN A RECIRCULATING SYSTEM.

Multizen, which was called Multizyme when I originally wrote this post is pretty similar to most enzyme products. Eats dead old root mass & keeps your root zone clean & in check.

Bud XL is an interesting product. If you notice, you stop using multizen once you start using bud XL. This is because the bud XL contains enzymes as well as a proprietary ingredient that transfers the sugar from the leaf to the actual bud. Basically multizen with some extras is my understanding.

Top booster is a mid stage pk bloom booster. The cheapest of all the additives yet probably the single most effective & noticeable product of them all. Pretty much common knowledge & practice for all growers to use a mid stage pk. Definetely a must have.

Shooting powder (and now Top Shooter which is a liquid shooting powder) are still unique to h&g for the most part. Many companies (Advanced Nutrients Overdrive, Aptus breakout powder etc) have created late stage bloom boosters similar to Shooting Powder/Top Shooter. Still they all pale in comparison IMO. These products create a second burst of flowering late into the bloom stage. After adding them you'll notice fresh layers of white pistols shooting up all over. This will result in significantly more weight but the down side is I would recommend prolonging your harvest an extra week to allow the fresh growth to fill in and get the finished color & texture growers are looking for.

Magic green still works ok I guess. I'm ho hum about foliar sprays so my opinion is probably a bit biased.

H&G also Recently released coco coir onto the market. IT IS CAL-MAG INFUSED, DO NOT SUPPLEMENT WITH CALMAG OR YOU WILL HAVE BUILDUP ISSUES!!!!! I still prefer a good, clean non buffered coco like Nutriplus, Nutrilife or Cyco. Also, suggest cutting with atleast 20% perlite or Growstones.

Lastly, I do feel h&g is lacking in a few areas. B vitamins, which I would supplement with AN b52 or Superthrive. We also use Xtreme Gardening products for our beneficials & teas. USE XTREME AZOS, MYKOS & TEA ALWAYS. These products are EXTREMELY EFFECTIVE & CONCENTRATED compared to other comparable products. I CAN NOT STRESS ENOUGH HOW WELL THESE PRODUCTS WORK WITH HG AND ALL OTHER LINES FOR THAT MATTER. We also use Supercharger RX tablets as an "enzyme supercharger" in all of our grows. IMO h&g should create some sort of early stage bloom booster/bloom trigger. We suggest Advanced Nutrients Bud Ignitor. For growers on a budget Blossom Blaster (Grotek), Bud Blood liquid or powder (Advanced Nutrients) or Blossom Blood all work well. Sea green Also compliments h&g well. It takes care of any residual build up that the drip clean can't handle. Make sure you get the additive stuff (from same manufacturer) that stops the foaming and weirdness of sea green if you're using it in a hydro system. Shout out to Rock Resinator & Bloombastic too. If you're not using the Shooting Powder/Top shooter try these out because they are awesome. DO NOT USE IN CONJUNCTION WITH HG.

Anyhow, there's my 2c rant for the day. Hit me up, purrrrple out!

This is a great post. I love the Extreme Gardening products with H&G.