rory420420
Well-Known Member
goddamn,i just realized im having a family reunionon r.i.u...all the uncles and a crazy cousin on this page...
Study: Sugar demand, not auxin, is the initial regulator of apical dominance
- Thread starter cannaculturalist
- Start date
waterdawg
Well-Known Member
Are there not lots of additives available that contain sucrose? Just curious, after a long retirement from doing the outdoor thing I was planning on doing an auto run to quickly fill the jars this summer after a disastrous last hydro run. Knowing that auto's can be finicky (never did a true auto run)I would like to make up some tea's to help them along. Also i can't hit them very often so thinking a more natural approach may be warranted.
cannaculturalist
Well-Known Member
Molasses has trace elements and will feed the soil organisms. Not sure about the rest of the theory behind sugars helping the plants grow - haven't looked into that stuff. I'd just like to focus on setting the plant up right rather than trying to pimp it too hard
Thorhax
Well-Known Member
I've been scanning RIU for your posts and it seams like with every post there is someone trolling..Fellas, this is not supposed to be about me. I appreciate all the attention. Suggests I have a lot of power over some of you guys.
Stay sugar sweet........ and Buck, you give your thuggery buddy thar a slap on the ass for me before you two give it up for the night, ya hear?
what is the point of trolling when we are all here to do the same thing...grow awesome bud.
AS FAR AS THIS STUDY GOES, it makes sense that a plant who just lost its strongest/fastest part would rush sugar to feed the other shoots to compensate.
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
Aint it the truth. In fact, this thread may have been started to bait me and the usual trolls into another shitfest. I could be wrong and his heart may be in the right place. If it is/was, I apologize. Like I said, I see no relevance to anything that's important to growing canabis when my suspicions tell me it was a link to the issue of popcorn buds, or me using auxins at will. Really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, at least not to me.
Like I said, I don't care if it's sucrose, auxin or Cuervo Gold that causes the redistribution of whatever, I'm a pro when it comes to topping and training trees, plants, shrubs, grapevines, and yes...... cannabis. I can predict with almost 100% certainly what I'll get BEFORE I make my cut.
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chuck estevez
Well-Known Member
I must be crazy, But I really thought the plant makes it's own sugars(photosynthesis) and anything in the soil must be first broken down into ions.
SO, adding sugar or sugar products won't help the plant, but will feed microbes. RIGHT?
SO, adding sugar or sugar products won't help the plant, but will feed microbes. RIGHT?
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killemsoftly
Well-Known Member
FRIN
a senile fungus
Well-Known Member
Makes me wonder if they artificially introduced the sucrose directly into plant tissue instead of directly at the roots, that's the only way I see this working...
Adding molasses etc to soil is solely feeding microbes in soil.
a senile fungus
Well-Known Member
Also brings to mind a conversation of sink/source.
If a set of fan leaves is no longer an adequate source, then it must not be producing more sugar than it uses. If this is the case, then removal of this set of leaves will cause the sugars that would've gone into this set to continue up the plumbing to the next set of leaves/buds at the apex of the branch. This surplus of sugars may JumpStart dormant bud production.
Does this sound plausible?
If a set of fan leaves is no longer an adequate source, then it must not be producing more sugar than it uses. If this is the case, then removal of this set of leaves will cause the sugars that would've gone into this set to continue up the plumbing to the next set of leaves/buds at the apex of the branch. This surplus of sugars may JumpStart dormant bud production.
Does this sound plausible?
chuck estevez
Well-Known Member
I highly doubt this study has anything to do with the amount of sugars in the plant. It simply takes the theory that auxins control apical dominance and replaces it with sugars. So, when you train, you redirect the sugars, not the auxins, so much. That is really the only thing you can take from this study.
a senile fungus
Well-Known Member
It would be interesting to see if sugar levels increase in plant tissue distal to the site of removed 'sink' leaves.
Also will be interesting if more studies could prove/disprove this?
Also will be interesting if more studies could prove/disprove this?
chuck estevez
Well-Known Member
a brix meter can easily test this.
a senile fungus
Well-Known Member
It has everything to do with the amount of sugars in a plant. The study finds that increased levels of sucrose suppresses BRC1 regulator and allows for dormant budsites to get access to sugar and become active budsites.
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a senile fungus
Well-Known Member
"An enhancement in sugar supply is both necessary and sufficient for suppressed buds to be released from apical dominance."
That's pretty straight forward to me...
That's pretty straight forward to me...
Rocketman64
Active Member
Pretty straight forward for me as well, however, 'sugar supply' shouldn't be taken literally. In other words, dumping white cane sugar in your soil, well, duh. Hope they have enough research dollars to continue the study and determine exactly the molecular structure of the 'sugar' they're referring to. Then we're getting somewhere and could lead to recommendations as to how one may 'enhance' the supply of the specific sugar the plant is looking for.
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
Significance
It is commonly accepted that the plant hormone auxin mediates apical dominance. However, we have discovered that apical dominance strongly correlates with sugar availability and not apically supplied auxin. We have revealed that apical dominance is predominantly controlled by the shoot tip’s intense demand for sugars, which limits sugar availability to the axillary buds. These findings overturn a long-standing hypothesis on apical dominance and encourage us to reevaluate the relationship between hormones and sugars in this and other aspects of plant development.
......Our data support a theory of apical dominance whereby the shoot tip’s strong demand for sugars inhibits axillary bud outgrowth by limiting the amount of sugar translocated to those buds.
"A theory". Let's be clear cause some folks tend to rush to conclusions and link this to that. The buds they refer to are not flowers for starts, they are dormant foliar buds which I refer to in my 4 main cola ditty. You take out the apical dominant points and those sugars/auxins/Cuero Gold shots are redistributed, which backs up my never ending preaching that the top, the most active growing part of a plant/tree/shrub is gonna get mother nature's goodies. IAA also plays a strong role.
When it comes to cannabis, there are many varieties that seem to put on good nugget development at lower levels in the shade, which I showed in my "no light" thread.
Moreover, artificially increasing sucrose levels in plants represses the expression of BRANCHED1 (BRC1), the key transcriptional regulator responsible for maintaining bud dormancy, and results in rapid bud release. An enhancement in sugar supply is both necessary and sufficient for suppressed buds to be released from apical dominance.
I never found any reference to how, when, and where sucrose was applied in the study and in what form.
http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2014/04/04/1322045111.abstract
https://www.facebook.com/FESPB.EU/posts/278091662359052
It is commonly accepted that the plant hormone auxin mediates apical dominance. However, we have discovered that apical dominance strongly correlates with sugar availability and not apically supplied auxin. We have revealed that apical dominance is predominantly controlled by the shoot tip’s intense demand for sugars, which limits sugar availability to the axillary buds. These findings overturn a long-standing hypothesis on apical dominance and encourage us to reevaluate the relationship between hormones and sugars in this and other aspects of plant development.
......Our data support a theory of apical dominance whereby the shoot tip’s strong demand for sugars inhibits axillary bud outgrowth by limiting the amount of sugar translocated to those buds.
"A theory". Let's be clear cause some folks tend to rush to conclusions and link this to that. The buds they refer to are not flowers for starts, they are dormant foliar buds which I refer to in my 4 main cola ditty. You take out the apical dominant points and those sugars/auxins/Cuero Gold shots are redistributed, which backs up my never ending preaching that the top, the most active growing part of a plant/tree/shrub is gonna get mother nature's goodies. IAA also plays a strong role.
When it comes to cannabis, there are many varieties that seem to put on good nugget development at lower levels in the shade, which I showed in my "no light" thread.
Moreover, artificially increasing sucrose levels in plants represses the expression of BRANCHED1 (BRC1), the key transcriptional regulator responsible for maintaining bud dormancy, and results in rapid bud release. An enhancement in sugar supply is both necessary and sufficient for suppressed buds to be released from apical dominance.
I never found any reference to how, when, and where sucrose was applied in the study and in what form.
http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2014/04/04/1322045111.abstract
https://www.facebook.com/FESPB.EU/posts/278091662359052
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a senile fungus
Well-Known Member
They made mention of sucrose.
As I said earlier, I don't think they meant it as carb loading the soil, I think they were artificially introducing sucrose into plant tissue, kind of like an IV... Or to a plant it'd be intraphloem, or IP.
I have IV supplies and could make a quick sterile enough field and find some sucrose and make a drip, lol. I also wonder the specific structure of the sugar they're using.
I have 5% dextrose IV bags but doubtful that'd work as its in solution with saline...
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
What would be your goal?
waterdawg
Well-Known Member
Thats what I thought as well but again a newb when it comes to anything other than time release nutes and praying (seems to work for the most part lol). I would really like to to go kind of au natural for the auto's, so by adding some kind of sugar I would think it would help with the all around health of the soil. That hopefully would help the plant get required nutrients without hitting the spot on a regular basis. I just thought the study may explain why some soil growers say they get good results using molasses. Also the enzymes people use in hydro, are they not used to convert dead plant material into sugars? If I'm getting way off topic I'm sorry and just tell me to get the hell off this thread lol.
Rocketman64
Active Member
Excellent post, Ben. Interesting times we live in. It's stuff like this that keeps reminding us just how little we know. After all the years of study on plants and all living things, new stuff is discovered every day. It's truly a treat for a science guy such as myself to sit back and soak it all in. I hope we still have a group of younger people with the same kind of thirst for unanswered questions that my generation has. I suspect they're out there but they currently have their faces stuck in their cell phone worried about somebody's post on Facecrap, in my opinion.