Cannabis and Hops... Let's Make some Beer

[yktind]

Okay RIU!

Let me start by saying I am not a professional by any means.

I have been brewing beer for a while now and have about 5 brews under my belt (15 gallon batches). I just ordered a 6 gallon Carboy and 7 gallon ferment-er. We will be doing some brewing this weekend just to break her in and to get my sea legs back. This will be my first solo brew (usually it is my uncle + me). I'll have all the tools needed, hops, malt, stainless steel pot, etc, etc.

Just received my copy of "How To Brew" by John Palmer (basically this is the brewer's bible). This will be an ongoing thread so please feel free to post anything beer/ cannabis related.

What I want to do is replace the hops with buds, hoping to retain the smells and taste of the actual plant. When brewing with hops in the past I have always noticed that hops retain a lot of the smell and some of their flavor usually it mellows out a bit. Essentially I want to make an THC "beer".

During the brewing process you make what is called "wort". This is the building blocks of your beer. Add most ingredients, water, malt, hops (or in this case buds), sugar, orange or lemon zest, etc. This goes into a pot and boils for around 45 mins - 2 hours depending on size and flavor goals.

From my understanding this will be plenty of time to decarboxolate the THC. However there is nothing to break the THC away from the plant material and mix with the wort. Later on during the fermentation process alcohol will begin to form as a byproduct of the yeast. This will work as a solvent I suppose and help to dissolve the THC. The goal here is an even mix so that every beer is identical in potency.

Has anyone on here ever brewed beer? Better yet, has anyone brewed a cannabis beer?

I have a harvest coming in the middle of July so I plan to try out my little experiment at that time.

In the mean time please post away. I need advice, Stories of what has worked and what hasn't. Blah Blah, I'd love to hear some of your recipes for just beer as well.

I want this thread to be about Brewing... with the added benefit of trying a THC beer.

Here is the brew Kit:

 

[yktind]

Here is a little reading about hops and how they are related to Cannabis:
http://entheology.com/plants/humulus-lupulus-hops/

...Indeed, Cannabis and hops are the only plants in the Cannabaceae family, and can be cross-grafted very well, but there is no translocation of cannabinoids to the hops vine when this is done (Voogelbreinder 2009, 192)...

TRADITIONAL USES: Many people only associate the hops plant with beer and do not consider it an entheogen. However, it does create altered states, both on its own and brewed in to alcoholic beverages, and for some people it can be a very powerful healer. The purpose of this article is to provide a comprehensive picture of hops so that you can decide for yourself what constitutes an entheogen or plant medicine.

TRADITIONAL EFFECTS: Hops flowers contain 15-30% resin, as well as bitter acids, an essential oil, minerals, flavonoids, chalcones, polypenoles, and catechines. The flowers contain yellow hops granules, which include the bitter lupulone. This substance has antibiotic properties and creates the characteristic bitter taste of hopped beer. It has a calming effect on humans, and also inhibits premature ejaculation. Furthermore, it has antimycotic, spasmolytic, and estrogenic effects (Williams & Menary 198.

 

[yktind]

I am working on the recipe right now and doing some google research. So far I know that I will be using 54 grams/ 5 gallons of brew. This puts about 1 gram per beer, 12 fl. oz. beers.

Anyone think this will be to much or perhaps not enough. I like to drink between 3 and 6 beers at a time. I don't want to rocking back and forth shaking like a leaf as I finish my third beer. When I make I edibles I aim for about 1/2 - 1 gram per cookie. and usually eat 1 cookie. I don't know how this will translate into a liquid form though.

Perhaps I should start with a 1 gallon brew. I just don't know If I can make such a small amount using a 6 gallon ferment-er/ carboy.

Now that I think about it I should probably aim for 1/4 gram per beer.

 

[greenlikemoney]

Don't be surprised ( or disappointed as the case may be ) when your batch is undrinkable. From an all-grain brewer. Happy experimenting though.

 

[yktind]

Don't be surprised ( or disappointed as the case may be ) when your batch is undrinkable. From an all-grain brewer. Happy experimenting though.

Hey @greenlikemoney Would you mind elaborating on what you mean by "undrinkable"...

This will be using cured and dried buds. It is a toss up between using that and sugar trim, larf that I use for hash. But I want the end product to have trace smells and flavors of the plant I use... In this case Skywalker OG.

I read in another thread about leaving to much chlorophyll, etc. That is why I am thinking dried cured buds.

Also, I have never brewed with grain. Our basic recipe is; hops, water, malt, sugar, hops, hops, cold water and yeast.

 

[greenlikemoney]

Hey @greenlikemoney Would you mind elaborating on what you mean by "undrinkable"...

This will be using cured and dried buds. It is a toss up between using that and sugar trim, larf that I use for hash. But I want the end product to have trace smells and flavors of the plant I use... In this case Skywalker OG.

I read in another thread about leaving to much chlorophyll, etc. That is why I am thinking dried cured buds.

Also, I have never brewed with grain. Our basic recipe is; hops, water, malt, sugar, hops, hops, cold water and yeast.

Yes, I assumed you were using a malt extract as you didn't list your grain bill. As you most likely are aware, the bitterness of the hops complements ( or overrules ) the sweetness of your wort. Cannabis does not contain those bitter qualities ( thank you God for that small miracle ). You will definitely need to supplement your cannabis with hops or your finished product will be wayyyy tooooo sweet for consumption ( just my opinion ).

 

[Cannabliss88]

I'll have a CPA (Cannabis Pale Ale)

 

[yktind]

Yes, I assumed you were using a malt extract as you didn't list your grain bill. As you most likely are aware, the bitterness of the hops complements ( or overrules ) the sweetness of your wort. Cannabis does not contain those bitter qualities ( thank you God for that small miracle ). You will definitely need to supplement your cannabis with hops or your finished product will be wayyyy tooooo sweet for consumption ( just my opinion ).

Okay good note. I'll porbably do 1:1 hops:cannabis. I usually add hops at three different times... Start of wort, 45 mins of boiling towards the end and sometimes a dry hop for aroma.

I have never worked with grain for brew before. What is a beer I would know of that uses grain? I've heard that the big three (Miller, Coors, Anhuser Busch) use rice to save on cost. Don't know if that is true or not.

 

[greenlikemoney]

Okay good note. I'll porbably do 1:1 hops:cannabis. I usually add hops at three different times... Start of wort, 45 mins of boiling towards the end and sometimes a dry hop for aroma.

I have never worked with grain for brew before. What is a beer I would know of that uses grain? I've heard that the big three (Miller, Coors, Anhuser Busch) use rice to save on cost. Don't know if that is true or not.

True about the BIG 3, but most small batch brews are all-grains ( no rice ). Quite honestly, aside from local brewerys, Sam Adams has the best beer brewed in America. PBR is still brewed without rice also. You couldn't pay me to drink a BIG 3 beer, they are garbage.

As for your hopping schedule, I think you would get a better product using your cannabis as a dry hop ingredient. Definitely don't use it in your wort start and I'd be leary of using it at your 45 minute addition. End of boil and dry hopping is your best bet. Also, just remember if someone could have made a beer that tastes like cannabis, it would have already been done and recipe shared with the world. True that.

 

[polo the don]

I have to admit this is a good idea. Even if it don't work.
Just a thought, could you make a tincture and add some to each bottle before putting the top on? You wouldn't really get the taste or smell your looking for but wouldn't you still get the effect?

 

[yktind]

True about the BIG 3, but most small batch brews are all-grains ( no rice ). Quite honestly, aside from local brewerys, Sam Adams has the best beer brewed in America. PBR is still brewed without rice also. You couldn't pay me to drink a BIG 3 beer, they are garbage.

As for your hopping schedule, I think you would get a better product using your cannabis as a dry hop ingredient. Definitely don't use it in your wort start and I'd be leary of using it at your 45 minute addition. End of boil and dry hopping is your best bet. Also, just remember if someone could have made a beer that tastes like cannabis, it would have already been done and recipe shared with the world. True that.

Edit: Documentary Name = Beer Wars | Click Here for a Link

I drink Coors, when I can't afford good micros (Lagunitas, Sierra Nevada, etc.). After watching a documentary on Beer and the big 3 and how fucked up the industry actually is, makes you think twice about buying any of their shit.

Anyway I like your idea of dry hopping the cannabis. I think that will help retain the smells and flavors. Only thing that worries me is the wort will be in process of cooling down... so it'll be around 200 degrees and will take maybe an hour or two to get down to yeast adding level. We usually add a couple gallons of chilled water to help speed it up, I could skip the chilled water (that is always done in the 15 gallon batches any way). My question then would be: Is this enough time to decarboxolate? The true test is how long it take to get from 200 degrees to 80 degrees.

So I will skip the chilled water to help decarb. The cannabis will be dry hopped (which is after the wort comes off the fire). Now to figure out my basic recipe (scaled from 15 gallons to 5 gallons).

Oh yeah, the only reason no one has figured it out is because people assume someone would have figured it out ... And every one else is more dumb then us, lol. I think with the help of RIU, brew books, science and a little luck we can get some stuff that will blow your mind and taste amazing.

 

[greenlikemoney]

Well, when you brew all-grain, after the boil you immediately run thru a wort chiller, so that would be the time to dry hop. I would be hesitant to throw cannabis into hot liquid.

I'll be checking on your post, interested to see your results.

 

[yktind]

I have to admit this is a good idea. Even if it don't work.
Just a thought, could you make a tincture and add some to each bottle before putting the top on? You wouldn't really get the taste or smell your looking for but wouldn't you still get the effect?

That isn't a bad idea. I personally don't like the taste of tincture (maybe it is the glycerin). Also, the yeast may see it as sugar and munch it down which in turn would carbonate the beer, this could be a good thing. Will have to do some other experiments with what yeast will eat. I wonder if they ate all of the glycerin if the flavors and smell of the cannabis would be released.

Another idea would be to use Hash or some other extraction. However I have always found it difficult to get hash to dilute even in pure fat (butter/ oil), alcohol is another story and I haven't had a chance to try this yet.

When carbonating bottled beer: The wort has fermented out and stopped bubbling. The yeast need a kick start so we add a bit of sugar water, this gives them something to eat. Yeast poop and pee alcohol and CO2. When this happens in a sealed environment the beverage becomes carbonated (which is the fizzy stuff). This can be dangerous if you add to much sugar water... Bottle can explode and scare the bejesus out of you if unprepared.

 

[yktind]

Anybody have any comments on the quantity to use.

I want to be able to drink between 3 and 6 of these without wanting to run into on coming traffic.

When I make edibles I aim for 1 gram/ cookie which is a good dose for me to feel high but not crazy. The only thing I have zero experience with is making cannabis into a drink. So I don't know if the dosage should be higher or lower. I think I will start with .25/ 12 oz bottle of beer. That way I can have a few.

***Side Note on the preparation of Cannabis*** I will not be crushing or grinding these. I am basically going to treat the material exactly like @Frenchy Cannoli does when he makes his hash. If the buds are to big they will be trimmed with scissors or by hand.

CPA - ABV = 6.5% | THCPMBWPB = 0.25 g
I'm stealing this @Cannabliss88 (Cannabis Pale Ale)
Oh and THCPMBWPB stands for: Tetrahydrocannabinol Plant Material By Weight Per Bottle.

I am open to acronym suggestions as well, lol.

 

[greenlikemoney]

Been thinking about this....if you took your buds and did a dry ice hash, basically you are left with trichomes ( not getting into the argument about % of leaf material ). If you took that kief and used it as a "dry hop" ( in a hop bag) halfway thru cooldown ( or the correct temp which is unknown to me ) you could possibly get a hash flavored ale. Just a thought.

 

[vostok]

Has anyone on here ever brewed beer? Better yet, has anyone brewed a cannabis beer?
I've done about 5-8 brews of mostly German lagers ..but I had rotten temp control and most of the brews went down the John, I went for the easier option of growing canna..
but like many I'm looking for the canna brew recipe ...if you have one post it up?

 

[yktind]

Been thinking about this....if you took your buds and did a dry ice hash, basically you are left with trichomes ( not getting into the argument about % of leaf material ). If you took that kief and used it as a "dry hop" ( in a hop bag) halfway thru cooldown ( or the correct temp which is unknown to me ) you could possibly get a hash flavored ale. Just a thought.

That is a great idea. I am gonna need a lot more buds, lol.

 

[greenlikemoney]

Depends on the batch size....if you brew a 15 gal batch, just pull 5 gal off and dry hop that, then you aren't ruining your whole batch....

 

[Wilksey]

Edit: Documentary Name = Beer Wars | Click Here for a Link

After watching a documentary on Beer and the big 3 and how fucked up the industry actually is, makes you think twice about buying any of their shit.

Once you start brewing and are able to recognize what real beer is supposed to taste like, you can pick up the taste of bullshit adjuncts thrown into the mass marketed beers....like corn. That's why I don't like em' anymore.

There ARE some good brews out there on the market, but the pale lagers are almost ALL completely shyte these days, and most of the "craft" beers I've had taste like your sucking on a hop.

 

[yktind]

Has anyone on here ever brewed beer? Better yet, has anyone brewed a cannabis beer?
I've done about 5-8 brews of mostly German lagers ..but I had rotten temp control and most of the brews went down the John, I went for the easier option of growing canna..
but like many I'm looking for the canna brew recipe ...if you have one post it up?

Stick around and we may find a keeper. Haven't done it yet.
I'll be doing a normal brew this weekend. So I'll post that recipe when I do.