I need help germinating beans

[Prince4118]

Iv grown a few plants in my time but I can't get these beans to germ properly for the life of me, Iv tryed the water cup method, the paper towel method, the light scarification method and straight into soil method and none have germed properly , the only ones that have cracked and shown tap root I have put into store bought seed raising mix (the same brand soil I have used for every plant Iv grown so far) and nothing shows so I check the seed in the soil a couple weeks later and there is no change or the root has died off, it's really starting to get annoying, I just put 3 more beans into paper towel after scratching a thin layer off the whole seed shell with a sharp knife (thinking the water can't penetrate the seed shell)

My question is:
has anybody got any advice that might help me out to atleast get a few plants going?? It would be insanely appreciated

 

[Sativied]

Instead of scraping you can put a bunch in a dark glass of water and if none of them sink over 12-24 hours (may have to tap them under once) then there might indeed be a problem with water penetrating.

Anyway, first thing that comes to mind is temperature. Are you controlling it? Should be around 80-82f.

Also, how are they stored? If not stored cool, drop a few in the freezer or fridge for a day or two, fake short winter, then germ in proper temps.

 

[Prince4118]

Y

Instead of scraping you can put a bunch in a dark glass of water and if none of them sink over 12-24 hours (may have to tap them under once) then there might indeed be a problem with water penetrating.

Anyway, first thing that comes to mind is temperature. Are you controlling it? Should be around 80-82f.

Also, how are they stored? If not stored cool, drop a few in the freezer or fridge for a day or two, fake short winter, then germ in proper temps.

Yea they all sink within an hour or 2 only have to tap 1 or 2 to get them to sink (Wich makes me think they are viable)

they are stored in little plastic bags in aluminum foil in a wooden box in my cupboard (so cool dry and dark)
The temp is pretty much constant 80f varies a couple degrees at night

What is the idea with this fake winter in the freezer how does it work and is it successfull?

 

[Sativied]

The idea behind the fake winter is to mimic nature. For some plant species the rise in temp indicates spring/summer, and throughout evolution that became one of the cues to start germination. Else they'd sprout too soon during the fall/ winter as it can rain then too.

"However, in many cases a viable (living) seed will not germinate even though all the necessary environmental conditions for growth are satisfied. This phenomenon is termed seed dormancy. Seed dormancy introduces a temporal delay in the germination process that provides additional time for seed dispersal over greater geographical distances. It also maximizes seedling survival by preventing germination under unfavorable conditions."

"Another factor that can release seeds from dormancy is low temperature, or chilling. Many seeds require a period of cold (0 to 10°C) while in a fully hydrated (imbibed) state in order to germinate. In temperate-zone species, this requirement is of obvious survival value, since such seeds will germinate not in the fall, but only in the following spring. "
http://5e.plantphys.net/article.php?id=8

That's what you want to look into, "seed dormancy" (on non-cannabis sites).

Oh and I don't know if its successful, it's just something I'd personally try. I do store my seeds at 40f or less though, and they 'all' pop regardless of the method I use (unless I let them soak too long).

 

[BobBitchen]

[QUOTE="Sativied, post: 10688160, member: 539919"
Oh and I don't know if its successful, it's just something I'd personally try. I do store my seeds at 40f or less though, and they 'all' pop regardless of the method I use (unless I let them soak too long).[/QUOTE]

I store my bean in ball jar in fridg, also have close to 100%....
never thought about it, but mimic winter makes sense.

 

[Prince4118]

I store my bean in ball jar in fridg, also have close to 100%....
never thought about it, but mimic winter makes sense.

Isn't cannabis a plant from tropical places like Jamaica and places that don't have crazy cold winters

 

[BobBitchen]

Isn't cannabis a plant from tropical places like Jamaica and places that don't have crazy cold winters

not necessarily,
like I said, I don't know about the "winter" theory,
I just have always stored s33ds in fridg, & it seems to work well for me

 

[Sativied]

Isn't cannabis a plant from tropical places like Jamaica and places that don't have crazy cold winters

Unfortunately not a lot of cannabis strains (if any) actually come from Jamaica (those are from Africa and India). But you do have a point and it's kinda why I said "some plant species" and why I'm not sure it will work for cannabis in particular. Might for some strains, not for others, but in any case if all else fails it seems worth a try.

 

[Sativied]

As a very last resort, you can try to remove the embryo from a sunken but closed seed. This one failed (see damage on tap root and crack of bottom cotyledon) but I didn't really make an attempt to be careful. It is doable.



Sounds crazy perhaps but it's an actually technique (germination embryo of old seeds that is).

Found some more info on the freeze and thaw effect:

Conditions Necessary For Germination
1. Preconditioning
Some seed require specialized "pre-conditioning" before they will germinate. Some examples include:

• Alternate freezing and thawing may be required to break down and crack hard seed shells.
• A dormant period of "rest" in cool dry conditions may be required by some seeds.
• Ponderosa pine seeds must be "singed" by the heat of forest fires before they are able to germinate.
• The seeds of the Calvaria tree (native to Madagascar) must be passed through the intestinal tract of turkeys before they are able to germinate.
• In the presence of red light and infrared light some seeds, such as tomato seeds, are known to produce bioactive chemicals called gibberellins (GAs) which promote seed germination. In dicotyledenous plants (that is, plants whose seeds have two embryonic leaves), dicots for short, such as the tomato, the GA promotes the growth potential of the embryo and weakens the structures surrounding the embryo.

2. Moisture
Seeds tend to remain dormant as long as they are dry. Water softens the seed coat and expands the protoplasm.

3. Oxygen
All green plants need oxygen to "breathe" or respire. Like humans, they need oxygen to live and grow. However, dormant seeds need little oxygen.

4. Warmth

• Minimum: Tomato plants will not germinate at temperatures below 10°C.
• Optimum: Tomato plants germinate best between 17°C and 20°C.
• Maximum: Tomato plants will not germinate at temperatures which exceed 35°C.

Yes tomatoes

The underlined part suggests there's more to the freeze-and-then-thaw than some internal signal from actually detecting the temperature. And that makes sense, because it's merely a result of evolution and natural selection. I.e. the harder to crack seeds survived the winter and got to make offspring. Doesn't mean they can actually 'feel' the temp.

 

[Prince4118]

As a very last resort, you can try to remove the embryo from a sunken but closed seed. This one failed (see damage on tap root and crack of bottom cotyledon) but I didn't really make an attempt to be careful. It is doable.

View attachment 3200725

Sounds crazy perhaps but it's an actually technique (germination embryo of old seeds that is).

Found some more info on the freeze and thaw effect:

Conditions Necessary For Germination
1. Preconditioning
Some seed require specialized "pre-conditioning" before they will germinate. Some examples include:

• Alternate freezing and thawing may be required to break down and crack hard seed shells.
• A dormant period of "rest" in cool dry conditions may be required by some seeds.
• Ponderosa pine seeds must be "singed" by the heat of forest fires before they are able to germinate.
• The seeds of the Calvaria tree (native to Madagascar) must be passed through the intestinal tract of turkeys before they are able to germinate.
• In the presence of red light and infrared light some seeds, such as tomato seeds, are known to produce bioactive chemicals called gibberellins (GAs) which promote seed germination. In dicotyledenous plants (that is, plants whose seeds have two embryonic leaves), dicots for short, such as the tomato, the GA promotes the growth potential of the embryo and weakens the structures surrounding the embryo.

2. Moisture
Seeds tend to remain dormant as long as they are dry. Water softens the seed coat and expands the protoplasm.

3. Oxygen
All green plants need oxygen to "breathe" or respire. Like humans, they need oxygen to live and grow. However, dormant seeds need little oxygen.

4. Warmth

• Minimum: Tomato plants will not germinate at temperatures below 10°C.
• Optimum: Tomato plants germinate best between 17°C and 20°C.
• Maximum: Tomato plants will not germinate at temperatures which exceed 35°C.

Yes tomatoes

The underlined part suggests there's more to the freeze-and-then-thaw than some internal signal from actually detecting the temperature. And that makes sense, because it's merely a result of evolution and natural selection. I.e. the harder to crack seeds survived the winter and got to make offspring. Doesn't mean they can actually 'feel' the temp.

So your saying soak the seed in a cup or water then try to peel the shell off the embryo, what do you then do with the embryo??

 

[Sativied]

I'm saying that if all else really fails it's something you could try. That said, I'd put them in fine soil or coco or - I can't believe I'm really saying this - a paper towel. The point is it doesn't really matter (should be dark though, and proper temps of course). The shell is just there to protect it, what it needs is in the cotyledons. I haven't grown one out of a fully closed one yet, it's something I happened to read a couple of days ago in another thread (another forum) from someone with basically the same issue, he tried it and it did not work for him.

An alternative would be to crack the shell open without removing it entirely. Again, normally I'd consider this horrible advice for germination in general, but in a situation where you have a bunch of seeds that really won't pop and you tried everything else, this might be worth a shot:

 

[Prince4118]

T

I'm saying that if all else really fails it's something you could try. That said, I'd put them in fine soil or coco or - I can't believe I'm really saying this - a paper towel. The point is it doesn't really matter (should be dark though, and proper temps of course). The shell is just there to protect it, what it needs is in the cotyledons. I haven't grown one out of a fully closed one yet, it's something I happened to read a couple of days ago in another thread (another forum) from someone with basically the same issue, he tried it and it did not work for him.

An alternative would be to crack the shell open without removing it entirely. Again, normally I'd consider this horrible advice for germination in general, but in a situation where you have a bunch of seeds that really won't pop and you tried everything else, this might be worth a shot:

Thanks for your help I'll be sure to try this method if all else fails but so far the scraping looks like it has worked I scraped 3 and put in wet paper towel and within under 12 hours 2 have popped showing taproot and the 3rd has swollen so I'm gonna give them another 12 hours and see what happens

 

[Prince4118]

I'm saying that if all else really fails it's something you could try. That said, I'd put them in fine soil or coco or - I can't believe I'm really saying this - a paper towel. The point is it doesn't really matter (should be dark though, and proper temps of course). The shell is just there to protect it, what it needs is in the cotyledons. I haven't grown one out of a fully closed one yet, it's something I happened to read a couple of days ago in another thread (another forum) from someone with basically the same issue, he tried it and it did not work for him.

An alternative would be to crack the shell open without removing it entirely. Again, normally I'd consider this horrible advice for germination in general, but in a situation where you have a bunch of seeds that really won't pop and you tried everything else, this might be worth a shot:

And another 12 hours later and no change, I have no idea what is wrong with these beans all I know is I need to get a few going

 

[Warriorbuds]

I soaked seeds in a shot glass/paper towel for years.......to germ with 80-90% success rate?.....A friend suggested just dropping the bean in the soil, and then water.....then put them in my tent while waiting to pop.....I probably have 90% germ rate with this technique....I have never looked back....KISS!.....Good luck!

When using shot glass or paper towel to germ....I would wait for "tail" to grow on bean, and then plant...thing is...some of the seeds that didn't develop that tap root or "tail" germed as well in soil? So looking for a tap root is not a sure fire way too spot viable seeds IMO.....

 

[MD914]

As a very last resort, you can try to remove the embryo from a sunken but closed seed. This one failed (see damage on tap root and crack of bottom cotyledon) but I didn't really make an attempt to be careful. It is doable.

View attachment 3200725

Sounds crazy perhaps but it's an actually technique (germination embryo of old seeds that is).

Found some more info on the freeze and thaw effect:

Conditions Necessary For Germination
1. Preconditioning
Some seed require specialized "pre-conditioning" before they will germinate. Some examples include:

• Alternate freezing and thawing may be required to break down and crack hard seed shells.
• A dormant period of "rest" in cool dry conditions may be required by some seeds.
• Ponderosa pine seeds must be "singed" by the heat of forest fires before they are able to germinate.
• The seeds of the Calvaria tree (native to Madagascar) must be passed through the intestinal tract of turkeys before they are able to germinate.
• In the presence of red light and infrared light some seeds, such as tomato seeds, are known to produce bioactive chemicals called gibberellins (GAs) which promote seed germination. In dicotyledenous plants (that is, plants whose seeds have two embryonic leaves), dicots for short, such as the tomato, the GA promotes the growth potential of the embryo and weakens the structures surrounding the embryo.

2. Moisture
Seeds tend to remain dormant as long as they are dry. Water softens the seed coat and expands the protoplasm.

3. Oxygen
All green plants need oxygen to "breathe" or respire. Like humans, they need oxygen to live and grow. However, dormant seeds need little oxygen.

4. Warmth

• Minimum: Tomato plants will not germinate at temperatures below 10°C.
• Optimum: Tomato plants germinate best between 17°C and 20°C.
• Maximum: Tomato plants will not germinate at temperatures which exceed 35°C.

Yes tomatoes

The underlined part suggests there's more to the freeze-and-then-thaw than some internal signal from actually detecting the temperature. And that makes sense, because it's merely a result of evolution and natural selection. I.e. the harder to crack seeds survived the winter and got to make offspring. Doesn't mean they can actually 'feel' the temp.

Germination by Caesarian section...lmao...sounds crazy but it just might work

 

[Sativied]

"sounds crazy but it just might work"....as a very last resort. Can't stress that enough.

I'll give it a shot myself very soon. Embryos from seeds soaked and sunken, and from some dry seeds. I'll use seeds that so far had a 100% pop rate regardless of the method (over only 30+ but still).

 

[MD914]

"sounds crazy but it just might work"....as a very last resort. Can't stress that enough.

I'll give it a shot myself very soon. Embryos from seeds soaked and sunken, and from some dry seeds. I'll use seeds that so far had a 100% pop rate regardless of the method (over only 30+ but still).

It's worth a shot...if it doesn't work it's going in the trash anyway...

 

[Prince4118]

Another 12 hours and the tap roots disappeared and the seeds closed Back up, I'm going to try another 3 and not even look at them till the 48 hour mark I'm thinking it could be either the light or my hands doing something to the tiny tap root

 

[Sativied]

Just for giggles:




I damaged the tip of a cotyledon when getting it out of that half.

It's in a mini coco pot now.

To open it I scraped off the edges and cracked it open with my nails starting at the indent.

 

[Prince4118]

Just for giggles:


View attachment 3202118

I damaged the tip of a cotyledon when getting it out of that half.

It's in a mini coco pot now.

To open it I scraped off the edges and cracked it open with my nails starting at the indent.

I opened one of my seeds that were on paper towel the other day to check if it was even viable and not mush or brown and it looked exactly like that so still viable but not germinating