LED vs. HID Double Ended Bulb

[skunkd0c]

I stand by the argument that LED bud has more flavor/stink. I have run my favorite cuttings under both HPS and LED many times. There really is a big difference it is not just LED rhetoric.

its not really an argument, its your opinion of which your are entitled to
for it to be accepted as fact you would need some kind of credible scientific study backing this claim up
your own personal experience is only important to you and your friends, i am ok with this
because i think each to their own, whatever makes you happy i would never try to convince a led user to return back to hid

i remember when using reptile bulbs became all the rage for a while
of course the users of these bulbs were convinced that their plants were hugely better
and they would never consider growing without UV again
i guess i am being a little cynical but i find this dramatic reported difference a little hard to accept
it does appear that many led growers are high on being part of an elite group

people post pictures of led and hps plants, the pictures look very similar to me
i have 20/20 vision , but all the led growers insist that the led pictures look better

when this kind of shit happens it confirms to me many of you folk are like mindless zombies trapped in a cult LOL

supra all of your pics are very nice looking btw

 

[SupraSPL]

Sounds tasty!

In my experience HPS buds are more likely to get shaded out on the inside because they tend to be larger/fluffier although it depends on the variety. In my opinion. medium sized dense nugs are better quality than large colas. So to get the best quality without sacrificing quantity, you are better off with a bunch of heads that are all getting really good light. I try to avoid a large dominant cola for that reason but sometimes that is easier said than done.

 

[chuck estevez]

At least with leds I don't have problems with rfi from ballasts repeatedly frying the radio power meter on my house (3times). Or frying the microprocessor board on appliances (twice). My peace of mind has increased greatly since i unplugged my hids. A digital ballast can turn your house into a radio beacon. You can test yours with a portable am radio if you are curious. I haven't completed a grow yet with leds (week four flowering right now) but I'm optimistic and enjoy the coolness they run at (no need for air cooling). Lower power bills are nice too, if the results turn out well.

Just pointing out there are other reasons to make the switch than just being unsuccessful with hids. It's inevitable that this tech WILL vanquish hids in time. I think we are moving out of the disappointing early adopter phase into a more mainstream era for leds. Even to a non technical person, it's clear that rapid improvements in leds are accelerating while old hid tech is stagnating. When was the last 'breakthrough' in hid lighting design/output? Water jacketed reflectors? 'Superlumens?' LOL.

I have a storeroom full of ballasts, reflectors, ducting, inline fans, etc. Possibly approaching obsolescence although my jury will be deliberating for another five weeks or so. Ultimately, the market's direction will be swung by the results of current led growers more than any other single thing. If we do well, retailers will respond by adding more led products at the expense of hid. Also, current DIYers will be taking their efforts into product development, bringing down prices on what is a basically cheap tech, much easier for noobs to use than any other lighting out there, Leds could turn out to be the desktop computer of indoor growing.

(I have had much tea this morning, forgive my babble.)

we are comparing to GAVITAS
Professional 1000 watt high frequency electronic ballast. Including high efficiency Miro aluminum horticultural HortiStar HR96 reflector (96% efficiency). Includes 1000 watt double ended EL lamp. Microprocessor controlled with electronic safety circuit. Very low heat dissipation and very low weight. Only suitable for use with 1000 watt double ended EL lamps: No acoustic resonance, more than 10% grow light compared to traditional lamps and light maintenance after 5000 hours >95%. Electronics by Gavita. Driver efficiency >95% and is adjustable to: 600/660/750/825/1150W. Sealed housing with Gore-Tex ventilation plug. Reflector easily replaceable. Comes with 16 ft power cord. Operates at 240 Volts. 1 year warranty on the lamp.

 

[SupraSPL]

Thanks SD and I hear ya, I don't expect you to take my word for it. Greengenes has reported the same thing in his Blue Dream side by side, noticeably more smell. I would like to believe that I am an objective person and I am reluctant to make a statement about something as subjective as smell or potency for that matter. But the difference is so noticeable and consistent that I do not consider it subjective after all and I feel confident to make that statement.

 

[skunkd0c]

Sounds tasty!

In my experience HPS buds are more likely to get shaded out on the inside because they tend to be larger/fluffier although it depends on the variety In my opinion. medium sized nugs are better quality than large colas. So to get the best quality without sacrificing quantity, you are better off with a bunch of heads that are all getting really good light. I try to avoid a large dominant cola for that reason but sometimes that is easier said than done.

i agree with this, but this opens a new can of worms about shading
do buds really need direct light etc
don't mention the D word

i like to manipulate my plants into shape so shading does not occur
or at least kept to a minimum

 

[SupraSPL]

high efficiency Miro aluminum horticultural HortiStar HR96 reflector (96% efficiency)

Not to nitpick but I hope everyone understands, the reflector surface may be 96% reflective but it is not delivering 96% of the photons to the canopy, a misleading stat and very important difference.

The lumen maintenance and driver efficiency of the Gavita setup is awesome though. The very best LED drivers are 94% efficient, but they are not commonly used in DIY due to high voltage. The drivers used in commercial LED panels and most DIY are only 85-90% efficient.

 

[Sativied]

I stand by the argument that LED bud has more flavor/stink. I have run my favorite cuttings under both HPS and LED many times. There really is a big difference it is not just LED rhetoric.

My favorite Ace of Spades cutting under HPS:
View attachment 3205947

And under LED. Much denser, awesome color and more flavor.
View attachment 3205954

As typical, comparing a failed HPS grow to a somewhat successful LED grow. First pic clearly shows you should have learned how to grow mj with professional HPS instead of downgrading to LED. I rather have my leaves light green at the end but you fucked those up pretty bad, looks like major PK overload and the common misconception that HPS light magically stops after 16" or so.

Not to nitpick but I hope everyone understands, the reflector surface may be 96% reflective but it is not delivering 96% of the photons to the canopy, a misleading stat and very important difference.

You really shouldn't be accusing others of misleading. Get a decent hood. Mine (Gavita Tripplestar) has over 90% uniformity. Again, you just suck at growing with HPS. Basic mistake, even a $10 hood in combination with reflective walls works fine.

 

[skunkd0c]

Thanks SD and I hear ya, I don't expect you to take my word for it. Greengenes has reported the same thing in his Blue Dream side by side, noticeably more smell. I would like to believe that I am an objective person and I am reluctant to make a statement about something as subjective as smell or potency for that matter. But the difference is so noticeable and consistent that I do not consider it subjective after all and I feel confident to make that statement.

i followed that thread it was a good one
from the pictures the bud did not appear any different to me
but i am willing to accept his word that he thinks its better
its just a question of how much better

how are led lights causing such a dramatic increase in terpenes?
do you think fullspectrum or sunlight can grow as flavorful weed as leds ?

 

[genuity]

and just so i'm not seen as an LED "hater"..i got a costly ass 315 watt LEC over a 2x2 tray(canopy is 3x3) right now(the light covers a 3x3 easy.
.i do not run in a tent,open room...

off of this pic @SupraSPL ..what LED would be a good fit/cover that 2x2 like the LEC..but i need plug-n-play.

 

[shnkrmn]

we are comparing to GAVITAS
Professional 1000 watt high frequency electronic ballast. Including high efficiency Miro aluminum horticultural HortiStar HR96 reflector (96% efficiency). .

Nice fixture, and, yes, it shows development in a tech I called stagnant but this thread had become more of a straight hid vs led bun fight and that's more the context of my remarks. Again, leds are becoming far less daunting than hids while certainly being more efficient than cfls, t5s, etc. It's only a matter of time before they become the most used grow light.

 

[Sativied]

it's called forum BS, people think you have to let them turn yellow and pack them full of p/k, I don't fall for that BS

Honestly I don't even think most people think you have to let them turn yellow, they just aren't capable of keeping their plants green and healthy till the end. I like a little fade at the end because it's a little easier/quicker to dry and cure, but there's a huge difference between "a little fade" and some of the burned up plants in this thread that pretty much died before completing the cycle.

 

[SupraSPL]

As typical, comparing a failed HPS grow to a somewhat successful LED grow. First pic clearly shows you should have learned how to grow mj with professional HPS instead of downgrading to LED. I rather have my leaves light green at the end but you fucked those up pretty bad, looks like major PK overload and the common misconception that HPS light magically stops after 16" or so.

Actually you are completely wrong. Those fan leaves are dead because the plant sacrificed them for the nutes. I like a strong fade for a clean finish. The plant takes the mobile nutrients and the fan leaves will look like hell in a hand basket. If you start trying to diagnose a nute overload you are no master grower after all. I grow in recycled organic soil, I would never dose my ladies with PK boost.

FYI, the dead leaves in the background of that picture are not from the Ace of Spades, it is the Pineapple Chunk from Barneys Farm. It is in the exact same soil as the Ace of Spades. That PC cutting always looks like horrible shite when it finishes but it turns out nice buds. Ultimately I let the cutting go though, it did not make the team.

You really shouldn't be accusing others of misleading. Get a decent hood. Mine (Gavita Tripplestar) has over 90% uniformity. Again, you just suck at growing with HPS. Basic mistake, even a $10 hood in combination with reflective walls works fine.

Did I say that hoods don't work? Of course not. I am saying that the stat gives the impression that 96% of the light is reflected into the canopy but that is not the case.

I ran my HPS bulbs bare and used basic cheapo hoods. The tents are huge so I was able to keep canopy temps below 80F without the use of glass. Basic mistake O Master Grower?

 

[Sativied]

Actually you are completely wrong. Those fan leaves are dead because the plant sacrificed them for the nutes. I like a strong fade for a clean finish. The plant takes what nutes it can from the leaves and they will look like hell and die. If you start trying to diagnose a nute overload you are no master grower after all.

Again, you are just delusional.

"I like a strong fade for a clean finish.".... letting your plants die prematurely (not because of a nute total overload but fucked up ratio) does not lead to... what is that even, a "clean finish"? The best mj is cured bud from plants that finished healthy, not with a PK overdose and N, Ca, and Iron defs (for which I don't even need to look at your pics..., it's so cliche), and not from smoking necrotic plant material...

I never have or will claim I'm a master grower, your words, what I'm saying is that you totally suck at growing MJ under HPS and should not be taken seriously when comparing HPS to LED. You're simply not in a position to do so. Parroting the same old debunked claims about LED isn't going to change any of that.

 

[SupraSPL]

Genuity, for flowering a 2X2 I would recommend the Onyx Bloom. It dissipates 210W and about 30% efficiency and cost $450, the best value in the market that I am aware of. It uses Cree XML2 warm whites. One downside is that it uses frosted lenses, but if it were me I would experiment with removing them and running bare, especially in a 2X2 that might just be perfect.

 

[st0wandgrow]

I agree, but I kid you not, that same grower with that same variety will grow better weed under an LED. Stickier, denser, stinkier and most likely more potent. Also slightly faster finishing.

I am looking to replace my old iron horse ballasts with some new (better) technology. Using less electricity is very appealing to me on many levels. Less heat is a nice bonus too. Where I'm a little skeptical is the claims of higher quality herb. The SUN is best source of light on the planet, is it not? I have smoked plenty of herb grown under the sun, and I have never thought to myself "geez, this is way better than the stuff I grow under my HPS bulb".

I really hope you're right, because I'm pretty much sold on LED technology, but I have to admit that I am skeptical of some of the claims.

 

[SupraSPL]

Again, Sativied you are completely wrong . Have you ever grown in organic super soil? The worst thing you can do to it is start fooking around with trying to address perceived deficiencies. You mix the soil right in the first place then you let the plants do their thing and keep them watered. The plants are not dead, the buds are not necrotic and I dont smoke the fan leaves homey. I would argue that the best MJ does not need to be cured.

Sativied, you seem intelligent but not objective. At first your questioning was useful because it was helping other people learn, but now you are just flinging BS and parroting instead of learning or sharing anything of value. What claim have you debunked? What do you have to offer other than "if you dont get 1 gr/W then you SUCK and your plants are dead necrotic material" In other words, you are trolling.

This plant is a light feeder, Cali Connection Buddha Tahoe OG. Same soil, same HPS. If the fan leaves start to die, guess what I do? Nothing, let them die and pluck them off once they are yellow.

 

[AirAnt]

Just having made the switch to LED from previously using HIDs, i'm a total convert. Won't ever go back. From the warm pink glow that fills the room to the way my plants are just exploding underneath them, I absolutely am loving my LEDs.

They're really quite powerful, I nuked my plants a bit because I made the mistake of putting the lights about 2 ft. above and that was not enough. It's deceptive because a lot of the light is outside normal human vision range, i'd guess.

I've just got 2 apollos running but man, I know they're gonna be enough to grow some nice plants with. My point being I went with the relatively cheaper type of LEDs and they're still way outperforming HIDs, watt for watt, par for par, you know what I mean.

 

[SupraSPL]

Stowandgrow and Skunkdoc, I do believe the sun is a better spectrum for growing medical grade cannabis than HPS spectrum. The downside is the rain and humidity (unless you have a greenhouse). I suspect the reason that LED bud has more terpenes is due to the increased output in the deep blue range and also the lack of infrared. All HID bulbs have a spike of output in the infrared region (825nm) and the sun has plenty of IR as well. The glass in a vented hood removes heat but it cannot block the radiant IR. I suspect that to some extent the IR "cooks" some of the flavor out of the terpenes. Anyway that is all just my conjecture and anecdotes so you have to take it for what its worth. I believe we will learn more about this as we go forward. Luckily with LED you can test it out on a very small scale if you are curious.

 

[st0wandgrow]

way to much yellow for me, I like a healthy green plant, and it looks like you pulled to early.

It's "TOO". If you're going to give out spelling advice, you best make sure you spell your shit correctly.

Also, the "healthy green plant" is just you parroting uncle ben nonsense (again). Senescence is part of a plants life cycle. Force feeding a plant high levels of N throughout it's entire life cycle is retarded.

You talk about these snob LED growers, when in fact you are the biggest douche on RIU. I suspect you're a little twirp that wouldn't dare run your mouth like this without the veil of a computer screen.

 

[Positivity]

Hid does rule led in available choices.

I don't blame anyone for hating on led either. The market is filled with underperforming badly built lights.

But for those that know what parts to use and build there own...they can have a better growing experience than they could if they used hid.

Once these new cree cxas start being incorporated in a quality and affordable manner...then leds will be best. But who knows how long that will be...and by affordable I mean $1 a watt.

I do find non belief in uv kinda interesting. There's a reason hawaii herb is so awesomely potent. When you walk outside on a hot summer day and can feel the sun beating down on you...that makes incredibly potent and flavorful weed. If you think hid or led can do that without uv than I dunno..

Please wait while I get my armor out before anything is thrown..haha