winterizing ftw

[qwizoking]

Monoterpenes typically lie between 150-190°c

Ethanol is about 78 and iso about 82..

Butane is actually harder to fully purge due to a film created on the oil (you don't get to use lower temps as you suggested either) While also the flavorful compounds are much more soluble in etoh than butane. Butane without question absorbs more fats and wax and different ratios of cannabinoids/terpenes

 

[goalie]

in the past when ive winterized, ive poured the strained solution into a nogoo dish and let the alcohol either evap during the day while at work, or put it on a double boiler of water on 150F - in both cases i have to continue warming it to make it tacky enough to gather up, and the final product is always rock hard absolute shatter.

I did a run the other day which i used the usual method only i let it evap on pyrex overnight.. the next day what i scraped up was sticky and gooey and i have been vac purging it, but its staying tacky and not getting hard. I've kept it under 110F the whole time.

I am wondering if maybe i didnt use enough ethanol and some fats/waxes or butane are still trapped. Not sure - any ideas or suggestions for next time?

 

[qwizoking]

Winterized hash isn't necessarily supposed to be rock hard shatter, if thats the picture you have in mind..
Mine is also normally gooey. Its from low temps and retained terps..

 

[qwizoking]

You can't really "not use enough" etoh, as the more you use while still being able to filter will enhance solubility of the waxes..
Fats and waxes cause taffy or pull and snap, it stretches and lightens in color. Looking similar to bending dyed plastic imo
If its goop or goo thats more similar to jelly where you can just grab some its terps.. hard for me to put in words, its real easy to tell by look and just touching it

 

[goalie]

Thanks Qwizoking! I think i prefer it when its candy like shatter and rock hard even if it means sacrificing taste because its easier to handle and store imho. Maybe i need higher heat then.. my friend did comment it was lemony tasting

 

[JointOperation]

so are some people cooking off terps and ending up with a harder product? all my nug runs are taffy.. and the trim from the same nugs.. same aged material. comes out rock hard.? with bho.. and no winterizing.. and my nug run even after winterized.. will still be a taffy.... but if i add heat.. and cook away some of the terps it seems to harden up a bit. ? but the smell and taste is what im after..

right now. i been no heat vacuum purging.. ambient temps around 70-80 F. and going on 48 hours.. this stuff STINKS.. ;just like some stinky bud.. stinks the entire room up.. wen i open the bag the parchments in. lol.. im slowly going to raise temps.. but trying to go low and slow shits soo see through.. im not sure if i wana winterize this batch.. maybe ill winterize half to see the difference it will make on this.

 

[goalie]

i really like winterizing, and when i would pour the strained mixture into a nogoo dish and let it evap naturally while i was away at work, when i come home its hard to gather up because it gets sort of hard at room temp, i have to put it on heat to get it plyable so that its easier to stick together and eventually get off the dish..

the alternative is pyrex + scrape, but im not a fan of scraping if i dont have to, and i found this way last time left me with some sticky stuff that i had to vac purge.. (first time ive had to vac purge an absolute)

any tips?

 

[WarMachine]

Try getting some PTF paper or something called like that, I know I plan on getting some. You can winterize on this paper (basically make it into a bowl or line your dish with it) and you can let it evap on the paper so you don't have to scrape! I need to get some soon..

 

[goalie]

Try getting some PTF paper or something called like that, I know I plan on getting some. You can winterize on this paper (basically make it into a bowl or line your dish with it) and you can let it evap on the paper so you don't have to scrape! I need to get some soon..

I would like to get some of that PTFE paper i've read about on other forums, but it seems that the noo goo dish (for now at least) is the same thing in terms of not having to scrape i mean.

 

[WattSaver]

Anyone have a link for this teflon paper??

 

[VP#2]

Almost all parchment paper that you'll come across is coated with silicone to enhance the non-stick properties of the paper. The problem is that butane and silicone don't react well. The result is that it is very easy to end up with some of the silicone in your oil.

Even with Teflon bags or sheets you need to careful. I purchased one of these to experiment with:
http://amzn.com/B0000CFG5F
The first thing I did was take a razor blade and scrape across the surface like I would if I was making oil... some of the coating came off on the blade So even even though Teflon/PTFE is a good choice in terms of it's non-reactivity to Butane, it can still be a problem if the coating comes off in your oil.

So far I have not found any PTFE or Teflon product that says it's okay to scrap it with metal objects. I'm currently using a slick sheet (http://amzn.com/B00AWK04IQ), but I don't spray or scrape on it, I spray into pyrex and then transfer the oil onto a slick sheet for vacuum purging.

 

[goalie]

After 12 vaccing this is the shit I got. Why

I winterized for 24 hours, and even let it sit in the freezer for several hours longer to see if any more waxes or fats would separate and they didn't. So if my waxes and fats are removed why am I getting this waxy bullshit after vaccing? It's all crumbly and kind of sticking to the parchment sort of... This is the third or fourth batch that has turned into this crap too

Even when I put it back on the heat it doesn't change out of this state it stays waxy bullshit.

I am pretty sure that this is either over vacuumed or I don't know what... Sorry I'm frustrated

 

[SnapsProvolone]

I do my nug runs at -25f (tane & dry column) and then I winterize at -25f with UV burst, to kill any green from the grind, for 72+ hrs, (yup still get a little wax dump). Vacuum through whatman 1 buchner and purge at ambient via thin film to snap taffy, the results are sublime in the magnitude and smoothness.

 

[GhostBud420]

Plant waxes and fat arent the cause of oil waxing up, in my opinion. I have also made winterized shatter and after a while sitting in the open air and heat it eventually waxed over and turned into a crumble type of concentrate. moisture, plant waxes and fats, butane that has not been fully released, theres a lot of factors in the question your asking. Maybe didnt let the tane evap all the way?...maybe some water was transferred during the freezer period?.. could be a lot of things

 

[goalie]

If any solvent was left it would have only been everclear. The butane is definitely all gone from its reaction with the everclear. Could be water sure.. but i duno man .. is it possible 12 hours was too long of a vac for 3-4 gs?

 

[Guzias1]

dude. i dont understand das bitching.. you just made some fire wax!!! and its winterized.

im calling it wax because of its consistency, not because of what it contains.

and its not crumble. crumble turns to dust. you got a nice hard cookie. which IMO is easier to handle than some shatter. shatter turns to debris, like glass. and you will cumulatively at least loose 10% of the chunks of shatter that never make it to the dab. ~Guzias1

pull n snap stuff is different.

you just hit gold, now enjoy it..

the flipping over and over method is a better way to go for shatter..

 

[Grow Goddess]

After 12 vaccing this is the shit I got. Why

I winterized for 24 hours, and even let it sit in the freezer for several hours longer to see if any more waxes or fats would separate and they didn't. So if my waxes and fats are removed why am I getting this waxy bullshit after vaccing? It's all crumbly and kind of sticking to the parchment sort of... This is the third or fourth batch that has turned into this crap too

Even when I put it back on the heat it doesn't change out of this state it stays waxy bullshit.

I am pretty sure that this is either over vacuumed or I don't know what... Sorry I'm frustrated

I have no experience with the vacuum ovens or BHO really. I have been making oil consistently for about 4 years now. That is all I consume pretty much, don't care much for smoke.

I had something similar happen to me for the first time. I think I may know why in my case. Maybe your case is similar.

What time of year did you do your other extractions without a problem? The reason why I as is I don't do many extractions during the summer. In the past it was because I didn't want any bugs getting into my RSO, not to mention all of the birds an other critters running around my yard. (You would have to see it to believe it). Anyway, I just did a QWET extraction, I have only done a few in the past without any problems. Same strains, same process, but something was much different this time. I couldn't get rid of the water. Normally the water evaporates pretty much with the alcohol. My more dirty batch, I decided to put on some light heat like I do for the final purge of RSO, but still, could not evaporate the water. By the time I could get rid of the water, the end product looked awful. Never happened before. There is one difference that I am aware of. The weather is hot and very humid. The other times I did QWET extractions my house was very dry because I did it in the winter. I use wood burning stoves to heat my house, so it gets very dry. I used 190 Everclear for the solvent. No with 99% iso, any time of year, I don't have a problem. There is a lot more water in the 190 compared to the 99% iso. Unless of course the alcohol was mislabeled and was only 151 or something. ??? Maybe it is due to the high humidity. I am guessing that is what my problem was. I will not do another QWET extraction during the summer!! Maybe I will never know the answer, but I don't have time for crappy oil.

Let me know if you believe it could be the time of year compared to your other extractions. I realize you are using an oven, but I also tried using heat with my lower grade batch and go the same results. I wish I knew if it was the time of year or I got ripped off on my alcohol.


To whoever on page 1 that asked about my method of winterizing, did I use heat? No, I did not use heat, that is not why the flavors disappeared. I am 100% confident that winterizing removed the flavanoids from my oil. The reason why we are not all in agreement on this, in my opinion, is because a lower grade oil being winterized will in fact probably improve the taste. However, when you have a virgin oil that is already elite, and tasty, you winterize it, kiss the nice flavors good buy. Every time I winterize, I can confirm it. I have been working with the same strains for over 10 years, only making oil for 4 though.

 

[goalie]

@Guzias1 - i know it may look stable and cookie'ish but its pretty crumbly and hard to handle, especially with a dabber for use in the sublimator. I only make this stuff for myself, i don't sell it, so theres no appeal to me when something is harder to handle and falls apart easily. I like that i can break shatter into whatever size pieces without it being crumbly or sticking to my parchment like this is. i WILL still enjoy it, but my goal was shatter, so im trying to keep it shatter

@Grow Goddess - very interesting! I never thought about the humidity, but that definitely could be a factor i never considered. I will take note in the colder months.
-When you evap after winterizing, what temperatures do you use? I ask because when i first winterized, i was evaping at 150F and my oil had no flavor. Since i keep it at 90-110 now, it always tastes great, and i only make winterized stuff.

 

[Grow Goddess]

@Grow Goddess - very interesting! I never thought about the humidity, but that definitely could be a factor i never considered. I will take note in the colder months.
-When you evap after winterizing, what temperatures do you use? I ask because when i first winterized, i was evaping at 150F and my oil had no flavor. Since i keep it at 90-110 now, it always tastes great, and i only make winterized stuff.

Well, I am 100% confident. I will explain. First, no heat, just a fan so we are talking room temperature. My room temperature ranges from 70 to 80 degrees F. I will show you the pictures and explain even more. This is virgin oil extracted, no heat, just fan dried to a sap.

These are extractions done during the winter using 99% iso. Then winterized with 190 Everclear.

Three out of 4 different strains all had the same results before winterizing.



After winterizing:


Winterizing robbed me of the color and the flavor. How do I know this for sure? I mean 100% for sure. Easy, after the coffee filter dried, I took out some of the dusty stuff, put it into a pipe and smoked it. It was all flavor.

You have to use flavorful premium buds to notice the difference, to make the realization that after winterizing, the flavor is gone.

I just wish I knew whether or not I got ripped off on the 190 proof everclear or it was just the humidity on my last run.

 

[goalie]

maybe winterizing is only for butane extraction.