Flushing schedule

941mick

941mick

Well-Known Member
Sativied said:
You'd be surprised how normal that is on this planet. 1,000,000.00 is 1.000.000,00 :)

The product works indeed. They say it's not a PK booster because they want you to buy a PK booster though. I use it combined with pH Up as a PK booster. :lol: Anyway, I was merely pointing it out because you said:
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Well I live in America where I have been looking at those ratios, so my statement was based on that. I take it back, but at such a low dose you really are not providing a lot of P or K even if it is 0-18-6. A PK booster with a value of 0-50-30 usually calls for 1/4tsp-1/2tsp , so 0.4ml/gal of a "PK booster" with a value of 0-18-6 isn't shit.
 
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941mick

941mick

Well-Known Member
Sativied said:
Sure, I agree it does not compare to a PK boost as suggested by nutrient manufacturers :)
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Well it just seems there are more concentrated and cheaper alternatives when it comes to PK boosting if being cheap is your goal, unless you are just paying more for the potassium oxide ingredient.
 
Sativied

Sativied

Well-Known Member
:shock: Well, you were definitely right about one thing, somewhere someone at H&G needs to lay down the pipe...

I found a Dutch label that has the 0.18% and 0.6% too: http://magicalwindow.com/sdho/_DROPBOX/house-garden/labels/2011_labels_standard Folder/PRINT FILES/plastic vs metal/drip-clean_250ml_plastic.pdf

At the same time there are many grow shops that show and list my bottle. Just a random example of one that is for some reason even more specific: "Guaranteed analysis is 18.7% Phosphorus; and 6.1% Potassium derived from Phosphoric Acid and Potassium Oxide."

Weird... Normally I'd say your email response settles it and mine has the misprinted label, but since clearly someone at H&G fucked up (and not just the decimal, the ratio 0-0.18-0.6 is very different from 0-18-6), I will shoot them an email at the local dutch site and see what they got to say.
 
941mick

941mick

Well-Known Member
Sativied said:
:shock: Well, you were definitely right about one thing, somewhere someone at H&G needs to lay down the pipe...

I found a Dutch label that has the 0.18% and 0.6% too: http://magicalwindow.com/sdho/_DROPBOX/house-garden/labels/2011_labels_standard Folder/PRINT FILES/plastic vs metal/drip-clean_250ml_plastic.pdf

At the same time there are many grow shops that show and list my bottle. Just a random example of one that is for some reason even more specific: "Guaranteed analysis is 18.7% Phosphorus; and 6.1% Potassium derived from Phosphoric Acid and Potassium Oxide."

Weird... Normally I'd say your email response settles it and mine has the misprinted label, but since clearly someone at H&G fucked up (and not just the decimal, the ratio 0-0.18-0.6 is very different from 0-18-6), I will shoot them an email at the local dutch site and see what they got to say.
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I would to, because your right someone could just be bull shitting. That is way too much of a difference for them to be not taking some sort of action to clear it up one way or another.
 
Sativied

Sativied

Well-Known Member
941mick said:
That is way too much of a difference for them to be not taking some sort of action to clear it up one way or another.
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Yes that 0.18% and 0.6%, considering the low doses, might as well be zero while the other suggests an actually increase of P K though still little it's a huge difference. I see differences in NPK values between countries more often but not like this, this seems like a typo/print error. Or... mine actually is 0-18-6 and they specifically changed it to 0.18 and 0.6 to make the difference less obvious.... weird...

(perhaps they read my posts about combining it with KOH (pH Up) for a PK boost... I only run 350 ppm so relatively they boost the ppm level <- that's just me mocking PK boosters, not to be taken seriously despite there being some truth in it... correction, was some truth in it if my bottle doesn't contain what it says...).

The label I posted in the link above does mention "for sale only in North America" so despite the dutch portion on the label is not the dutch version.

But... I see also shops in the US seemingly selling a NPK 0-18.7-6.1, for example
http://www.midwesthydroponics.com/browse-products/nutrients-and-supplements-1/house-and-garden/drip-clean-500-ml.html

Implies there are three versions... I mean where do these shops get that additional .7 and 0.1 that's not on either of our labels...

I will post the reply assuming I get one, will probably be after the weekend. Need to go to shop tomorrow anyway, will check what's on the bottles they currently sell.
 
Sativied

Sativied

Well-Known Member
Hey... do you got a bottle near you? What's the ppm? I'll measure mine in a sec...

9700ppm... not sure how accurate that is, could be just maxing out.
 
941mick

941mick

Well-Known Member
i was able to use my pen, and since i got it under 2500ppm i was able to use my truncheon to confirm that ppm range.
 
Sativied

Sativied

Well-Known Member
I just tried with my Hanna and it maxed out too so will try some RO water.

Ok, 2.5ml (little rough...) in 1liter is 432 ppm on a 0.5 scale, is 0.86 EC.

"1ml/100ml is 2310ppm (700scale)" so 1ml/1liter would be 231ppm on 0.7, that's roughly 0.33EC. I used 2.5 times as much is 0.82EC.. close enough.

Based on that alone it suggest the contents is pretty much the same... though it's quite possible I fucked up that calculation :eyesmoke:
 
Cobnobuler

Cobnobuler

Well-Known Member
I think you two should definitely open a hydro store together and join forces. Then have one of those reality TV crews make a series :)
 
Sativied

Sativied

Well-Known Member
The original page is gone but the link still exists on several pages including links at RIU:
http://www.house-garden.us/articles/why-have-the-npk-numbers-changed-on-house-garden-products/

Can't find that original doc anymore, no cached version either. The following article is probably derived from it:

"Why are we not seeing a guaranteed analysis on the new H&G bottles?

A guaranteed analysis numbers are representative of the amount or percentage of a certain element per unit of volume. These percentages are obtained through certifying agencies that do not always use the same instrumentation, the same scale, and the same procedure. To complicate things further, every state began to do their own testing a couple of years ago without standardizing the testing – it is up to whichever independent lab they are using to determine these numbers.

So in an effort to prevent any unnecessary misunderstanding regarding a guaranteed analysis, H&G decided to use the MINIMUM guaranteed analysis numbers instead. Little did they know it would cause so much confusion. [...] "
http://sdhydroponics.com/resources/articles/gardening/why-have-the-npk-numbers-changed-on-house-garden-products

Not sure if it's even related to the NPK difference of Drip Clean in particular... Shop near me was closed, will have to go Monday and hopefully will have a reply from H&G by then as well.

Perhaps a moderator can change this thread's title to Drip Clean NPK ratio and remove the OP's post :lol: - we got enough threads on flushing already...


"Do not always use the same scale" isn't just the case here. For example, yours could be a % of the bottle's contents, mine could be a % of the contents that isn't water? But that wouldn't explain the ratio difference...
 
jondamon

jondamon

Well-Known Member
Sativied said:
The original page is gone but the link still exists on several pages including links at RIU:
http://www.house-garden.us/articles/why-have-the-npk-numbers-changed-on-house-garden-products/

Can't find that original doc anymore, no cached version either. The following article is probably derived from it:

"Why are we not seeing a guaranteed analysis on the new H&G bottles?

A guaranteed analysis numbers are representative of the amount or percentage of a certain element per unit of volume. These percentages are obtained through certifying agencies that do not always use the same instrumentation, the same scale, and the same procedure. To complicate things further, every state began to do their own testing a couple of years ago without standardizing the testing – it is up to whichever independent lab they are using to determine these numbers.

So in an effort to prevent any unnecessary misunderstanding regarding a guaranteed analysis, H&G decided to use the MINIMUM guaranteed analysis numbers instead. Little did they know it would cause so much confusion. [...] "
http://sdhydroponics.com/resources/articles/gardening/why-have-the-npk-numbers-changed-on-house-garden-products

Not sure if it's even related to the NPK difference of Drip Clean in particular... Shop near me was closed, will have to go Monday and hopefully will have a reply from H&G by then as well.

Perhaps a moderator can change this thread's title to Drip Clean NPK ratio and remove the OP's post :lol: - we got enough threads on flushing already...


"Do not always use the same scale" isn't just the case here. For example, yours could be a % of the bottle's contents, mine could be a % of the contents that isn't water? But that wouldn't explain the ratio difference...
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Aren't the standards between countries different as for labelling and analysis etc?


I remember reading once that a bottle of nutes in the UK might be labelled up as NPK 5-4-3 but be completely different in the US for example.

Eg my canna coco nutes are 5-4-3 NPK labelled in the UK.

Same nutes in the US are labelled as 4-4-3.



Just a thought about across water labelling legalities etc.




J
 
941mick

941mick

Well-Known Member
jondamon said:
Aren't the standards between countries different as for labelling and analysis etc?


I remember reading once that a bottle of nutes in the UK might be labelled up as NPK 5-4-3 but be completely different in the US for example.

Eg my canna coco nutes are 5-4-3 NPK labelled in the UK.

Same nutes in the US are labelled as 4-4-3.



Just a thought about across water labelling legalities etc.




J
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I don't believe so. I mean if they sold it in metric units in the EU and then sold it in US measurements that would be one thing, but contents per volume shouldn't differ if using the same standard of measurement. I may be wrong but that is my assessment
 
Sativied

Sativied

Well-Known Member
jondamon said:
Aren't the standards between countries different as for labeling and analysis etc?
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Yes there are differences but none I can think of that explain the different ratio. I did read that original article but too long ago to remember "how" exactly it changed but it had to do with what is mentioned in that article I quoted above: "These percentages are obtained through certifying agencies that do not always use the same instrumentation, the same scale, and the same procedure." If I remember correctly the change did had to do with them having to change from their own european labeling to US and even some state specific standards and analysis. The article implied some frustration...

Here's an older post from RIU about that change and now missing pdf, read the comment:
patlpp said:
Yea did you see this H&G PDF?

http://www.house-garden.us/articles/why-have-the-npk-numbers-changed-on-house-garden-products/

Big Mike isn't the only one getting shit!!
I can just imagine the administrative cluster-f**k any company has to go through dealing with some of these bureaucracies. It sounded like "OK screw it, label them down in the dirt and be done with it"!! I can understand that.
Now if people hated H&G wouldn't you think they would reference the Calif incident much like they did with AN and Oregon? I think Botanicare also went through some massive violations too.
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'nother one:
berkman858 said:
Good info, thx for the link. I have been wondering why the NPK values were so low.

Here is a link to the NPK analysis: http://www.house-garden.us/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/npk-analysis-of-house-and-garden-products.pdf
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But again, that in some way could explain "a" difference, but 0 - 0.18 - 0.6 is a completely different ratio than 0-18-6.

6 divided by 10 is 0.6 but 18 divided by 10 would be 1.8 and not 0.18.

0 - 0.18 - 0.6 is more like 0-0.2-0.6 i.e. three times as much K as P instead of three times as much P than K.
 
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