Molasses for coco coir during flowering

[roamingrichy]

Hi everyone,

This is my first year using coco coir exclusively on my cali hash plant (outdoor, 80l grow bag). The results so far have been phenomenal and she is flowering nicely. At over 2 metres tall, she's a monster. What I've done on previous years when growing in soil is use molasses to thicken and frost up the buds with great success.

Can I also do this with coco coir? If so, could anyone let me have some pointers on how much, etc,.? Don't want to disrupt the growth or feeding schedule I have with the nutes.

Thanks!

 

[chuck estevez]

molasses DOES NOT thicken or frost ANYTHING, it is used in an organic soil to feed microbes, That is ALL it does.

 

[Bugeye]

Molasses feeds the bacteria in your soil which feed your plant. So unless you are doing an organic grow in coco I don't think it will help you.

 

[roamingrichy]

OK thanks for the replies, makes sense I suppose. Still doesn't explain the countless forums that say it's good to use during flowering, even with coco.

 

[chuck estevez]

OK thanks for the replies, makes sense I suppose. Still doesn't explain the countless forums that say it's good to use during flowering, even with coco.

http://www.thesoilguy.com/SG/Molasses

from that link
Two Types
In this context, there are two basic types of molasses available: sulfured and unsulfured. Basically treating molasses with sulfur results in fortification of iron, calcium and magnesium.
So the question is, do microbes and/or plants need supplemental iron, calcium and magnesium from molasses, to prosper in soil or dirt?
In this author's opinion, no. But some organic gardeners use sulfured molasses in their drenches because they feel plants will appreciate the fortification. However, I think there are better ways to accomplish such fortification than spending the extra money for the sulfured type.

 

[brimck325]

for years i was told sulfured lasses would kill cannabis, funny how my plants never showed any problems with it. don't believe everything your told or read. i recently starting using coco so i don't need it anymore.

 

[Ace Yonder]

molasses DOES NOT thicken or frost ANYTHING, it is used in an organic soil to feed microbes, That is ALL it does.

This is not "ALL" molasses does. Molasses is a chelating agent and helps make chemical fertilizers easier for the plants to uptake. Even the link that you posted supports this: "I do not recommend using synthetic chemical fertilizers, but I would be remiss not to mention that molasses is also a chelating agent, which means that it can 'help' convert 'some' chemical nutrients into a form that’s 'more' easily available for organisms and plants to use." (from http://www.thesoilguy.com/SG/Molasses)

 

[chuck estevez]

This is not "ALL" molasses does. Molasses is a chelating agent and helps make chemical fertilizers easier for the plants to uptake. Even the link that you posted supports this: "I do not recommend using synthetic chemical fertilizers, but I would be remiss not to mention that molasses is also a chelating agent, which means that it can 'help' convert 'some' chemical nutrients into a form that’s 'more' easily available for organisms and plants to use." (from http://www.thesoilguy.com/SG/Molasses)

yeah, I know, but it still doesn't cause frosting or thickening. And the amount it chelates could be debated. Kinda like spitting in the ocean.

 

[Ace Yonder]

yeah, I know, but it still doesn't cause frosting or thickening. And the amount it chelates could be debated. Kinda like spitting in the ocean.

Could be debated, but if you're on the side of "insignificant amount of chelating" you're gonna have a tough time because all the science and facts are on the other side of it. As a matter of fact it is such a powerful chelating agen that a 10% solution of molasses in water will strip away rust. I could point to dozens of sources that point to the efficacy of molasses as a chelating agent, in which you will find quotes such as "Blackstrap molasses acts as a chelating agent, which means it can convert chemicals in feed, fertilizer, or the soil, into a form that can be taken up by plants and animals. So, you can actually use less fertilizer when you add molasses to your mix." and "Chelates are known for their ability to unlock the potential of fertilizers, and many farmers are successfully using chelating agents, like Molasses, to increase efficiency of their current fertilizer and make dramatic cuts in normal levels of fertilizer application requirements". Also, to say that it doesn't cause frosting or thickening is also a very uninformed and flawed statement, since the frosting and thickening and indeed all plant growth is governed by the Law of the Minimum, which states that "growth is controlled not by the total amount of resources available, but by the scarcest resource (limiting factor)". Thickening and frosting can only happen if all required nutrients are present, and an additive such as molasses which is an extremely abundant source of trace minerals can provide the limiting agent, either by directly containing it or by chelating and making it available, and thusly allow further frosting and thickening. Can you point to ONE that says it is insignificant? Or are you just making stuff up because you don't understand the science?

 

[Cannabidude]

molasses is also a chelating agent, which means that it can 'help' convert 'some' chemical nutrients into a form that’s 'more' easily available for organisms and plants to use."

the key here is "can help" and "some nutrients". also note that like everything else the micros in molasses have to be broken down before a plant can use it all. Adding it during the last weeks of flowering to "thicken and frost buds" doesn't work. Also note he is using "nutes" there wont be enough microbes to break down the molasses enough to matter in the first place.

Also, to say that it doesn't cause frosting or thickening is also a very uninformed and flawed statement, since the frosting and thickening and indeed all plant growth is governed by the Law of the Minimum

your own logic is flawed sir. yes everything is governed by the law of minimum, but that doesn't mean its the cause. Thats like saying CO2 increases your yield, it doesn't on its own and even with the right conditions its not the "cause" its just one piece that has to be in place for the system to work well. If molasses is making a big difference in a nute fed grow then you are probably feeding them incorrectly in the first place. Note this doesn't mean molasses cant be useful to add, its just that the context the OP put using molasses into is incorrect from theory to practice.

to all please note that you cant always believe what you read from these "cannabis authorities" there is more mis-inforamtion on these sites than actual information. Try going to your local library and pick up a horticulture book. Cannabis isn't any different than any other plant, stop reading into all thes snake oils and inform yourselves with proven knowledge.

 

[Ace Yonder]

the key here is "can help" and "some nutrients". also note that like everything else the micros in molasses have to be broken down before a plant can use it all. Adding it during the last weeks of flowering to "thicken and frost buds" doesn't work. Also note he is using "nutes" there wont be enough microbes to break down the molasses enough to matter in the first place.


your own logic is flawed sir. yes everything is governed by the law of minimum, but that doesn't mean its the cause. Thats like saying CO2 increases your yield, it doesn't on its own and even with the right conditions its not the "cause" its just one piece that has to be in place for the system to work well. If molasses is making a big difference in a nute fed grow then you are probably feeding them incorrectly in the first place. Note this doesn't mean molasses cant be useful to add, its just that the context the OP put using molasses into is incorrect from theory to practice.

to all please note that you cant always believe what you read from these "cannabis authorities" there is more mis-inforamtion on these sites than actual information. Try going to your local library and pick up a horticulture book. Cannabis isn't any different than any other plant, stop reading into all thes snake oils and inform yourselves with proven knowledge.

I have been using Blackstrap molasses in my garden for over 15 years, and for the vast majority of that time I wasn't growing cannabis. If you don't believe the rather proven efficacy of it, that's fine, but don't try to tell me that I am wrong, as well as pretty much every source that writes about it, when you offer absolutely no evidence to support your side other than your own unsubstantiated doubts and I offer firm, established facts.

Also "also note that like everything else the micros in molasses have to be broken down before a plant can use it" is just untrue. That's entirely the point, it is a chelating agent, it is the thing that breaks things down to become usable, and most of the micro nutrients in it are already in chelated form i.e. already ready to be absorbed directly by the plants WITHOUT needing to be broken down further, and it will also make available any nutrients that may have built up in the medium.

 

[Cannabidude]

but don't try to tell me that I am wrong, as well as pretty much every source that writes about it, when you offer absolutely no evidence to support your side other than your own unsubstantiated doubts and I offer firm, established facts..

first, if you think pretty much every source agrees with you, you need to open a book instead of a Cannabis Culture article.
i think you misunderstand what chelating is bro. " Chelation occurs when certain large molecules form multiple bonds with a micronutrient, protecting it from reacting with other elements in the nutrient solution and increasing its availability to the plant." i.e not all chelating agents act on all micronutrients. molasses doesn't even chelate all of the micros if contains. However from your defensive attitude i know i cant convince you. guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. truce brother.

 

[Ace Yonder]

first, if you think pretty much every source agrees with you, you need to open a book instead of a Cannabis Culture article.
i think you misunderstand what chelating is bro. " Chelation occurs when certain large molecules form multiple bonds with a micronutrient, protecting it from reacting with other elements in the nutrient solution and increasing its availability to the plant." i.e not all chelating agents act on all micronutrients. molasses doesn't even chelate all of the micros if contains. However from your defensive attitude i know i cant convince you. guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. truce brother.

Sorry I didn't mean to come off as defensive. I just felt that it was being dismissed too out of hand with statements that contradict a lot of science that I have spent quite a bit of time studying and am quite passionate about, and I get worked up when I feel people are pushing a conclusion that perhaps lacks the solid basis of research that I believe it merits, and is based more on knee jerk reactions that actual analysis of the concepts at play. I welcome you, and anyone, to take the time to do the research, and reach your own conclusions, I just wanted to say that my research has led me to the conclusion that blackstrap molasses contains many chelated nutrients and chelating agents that are beneficial in a variety of mediums, and my personal experience with it has led me to the conclusion that it makes a very substantial and beneficial difference.

 

[chuck estevez]

I found more problems USING molasses, then when I stopped using it. That is all the DATA I need.

 

[BcDigger]

Just my 2 cents, no science behind it. But I use 50/50 mix of promix hp w/mycho, and coir bricks as a medium. I feed a fair amount of blackstrap molasses to my plants and it seems to work for me. I feed 1tlbs molasses and 1/2tbls Alaska 0-10-10 per gallon, twice in a week, then off for three weeks. During the three off they are just receiving balanced time release food. I notice a bigger difference in the week I feed molasses and 0-10-10 than I do in three weeks without.

 

[Ace Yonder]

I found more problems USING molasses, then when I stopped using it. That is all the DATA I need.

Well you sure offered rock solid and indisputable evidence on that one, that is clearly an educated opinion reached through exhaustive research and the elimination of all other control variables! I'm surprised that your superior intellect and unwavering devotion to the scientific method didn't show through before, I have no idea how I could have been confused into thinking you had no idea what you were talking about! I will reevaluate all my views on science in light of this monumental discovery!!!! I will also reevaluate my use of commas and the words "then" and "than", because much like the way you conduct research, the way you construct sentences is equally impressive and paradigm shifting!!!!

 

[chuck estevez]

Well you sure offered rock solid and indisputable evidence on that one, that is clearly an educated opinion reached through exhaustive research and the elimination of all other control variables! I'm surprised that your superior intellect and unwavering devotion to the scientific method didn't show through before, I have no idea how I could have been confused into thinking you had no idea what you were talking about! I will reevaluate all my views on science in light of this monumental discovery!!!! I will also reevaluate my use of commas and the words "then" and "than", because much like the way you conduct research, the way you construct sentences is equally impressive and paradigm shifting!!!!

boy, you sure told me, thanks for the English lesson, Butthurt Much?

sorry you believe in magic bottles, maybe better growing skills is what you need, not some magical sauce.

 

[Ace Yonder]

boy, you sure told me, thanks for the English lesson, Butthurt Much?

sorry you believe in magic bottles, maybe better growing skills is what you need, not some magical sauce.

Wow, your aggressively anti-intellectual attitude really gives me confidence that you are capable of determining what is magic and what isn't, especially without needing to give heed to things like chemistry, or botany, or anything of the sort! It's not like our mental faculty is evidenced in everything that we do, and thus everything that we do is reflective of the quality of that faculty. I'm sorry about the fact that I choose to devote energy to the correct usage of the language I communicate with, I know it is just such a wacky idea, it must be very tough to wrap your little mind around huh?

 

[chuck estevez]

Wow, your aggressively anti-intellectual attitude really gives me confidence that you are capable of determining what is magic and what isn't, especially without needing to give heed to things like chemistry, or botany, or anything of the sort! It's not like our mental faculty is evidenced in everything that we do, and thus everything that we do is reflective of the quality of that faculty. I'm sorry about the fact that I choose to devote energy to the correct usage of the language I communicate with, I know it is just such a wacky idea, it must be very tough to wrap your little mind around huh?

you may THINK you are smart, But you are a complete dumbass and your responses prove it, you have nothing but to try and challenge my intellect on the subject of Molasses. WOW, you must be a fuckin genius, you use molasses and seem to think it does shit for your grow. Like I said, get some growing skills and quit relying on magic bottles.

 

[Ace Yonder]

you may THINK you are smart, But you are a complete dumbass and your responses prove it, you have nothing but to try and challenge my intellect on the subject of Molasses. WOW, you must be a fuckin genius, you use molasses and seem to think it does shit for your grow. Like I said, get some growing skills and quit relying on magic bottles.

My responses prove I am dumb because they are well worded and they contain facts to back up my statements? Should I instead just throw out vague blanket statements with absolutely no evidence to support them the way you do? Is that what smart people do in your book?