Soil Vs Hydro

hydroMD

Well-Known Member
I think you guys are missing my point, due to being hydro zealots.

Prior to participating in the hydro movement, i am able to determine various factors of the hydro process, which i would prefer to avoid.

Therefore: soil (despite any claims of hydro superiority).

You guys seem to think i'm saying "your way sucks!" But i'm not. I'm saying "your way involves things i'd rather not deal with, and my way is sufficient for my needs."

Not sure how that can be legitimately construed as "ignorant," other than the literal ignorance of not participating in the adoption of a method i've already found reasons not to adopt.

It comes down to ideology and circumstances. If i could find an Easy and Equivalently Eco-friendly, sustainable hydro method, i Might try it, Maybe. But that's not happening right now, and won't, for quite some time, if at all.
Ya dont know til ya know bro. You may forsee the negatives, but until you have tried and succeeded with hydro, you will never be abke to weigh the negatives vs positives.


This post is soil vs. Hydro, therfore no matter your stance, your opinion is only half valid.

I dont think you have any hydro zealots on your back, just people that are in awe someone is arguing woth them aboit a subject they are not versed in.



For me it all comes down to time. If i want some big bitches and im short on time ill go with hydro and cut the veg time in half. Soil is easy and I never think twice or even measure EC and ph.

I believe soil overall is easier, bit i also run one big plant at a time 99% of the time so transplants are non issue.

And for the record, not a single person on this forum could decipher between my soil or hydro nugs... yiels is always comparable as well if the plants end up the same size. Ive done side by sideswith over 20 strains in my day, and only a few hydro girls drastically outperform soil... sometimes vise versa
 

DarthBlazeAnthony

Well-Known Member
Ya dont know til ya know bro. You may forsee the negatives, but until you have tried and succeeded with hydro, you will never be abke to weigh the negatives vs positives.


This post is soil vs. Hydro, therfore no matter your stance, your opinion is only half valid.

I dont think you have any hydro zealots on your back, just people that are in awe someone is arguing woth them aboit a subject they are not versed in.



For me it all comes down to time. If i want some big bitches and im short on time ill go with hydro and cut the veg time in half. Soil is easy and I never think twice or even measure EC and ph.

I believe soil overall is easier, bit i also run one big plant at a time 99% of the time so transplants are non issue.

And for the record, not a single person on this forum could decipher between my soil or hydro nugs... yiels is always comparable as well if the plants end up the same size. Ive done side by sideswith over 20 strains in my day, and only a few hydro girls drastically outperform soil... sometimes vise versa
why is the veg time for hydro cut in half? I'm using hydro and vegged for 2 months...how many weeks of veg do you suggest?
 

hydroMD

Well-Known Member
why is the veg time for hydro cut in half? I'm using hydro and vegged for 2 months...how many weeks of veg do you suggest?
Veg as long as it takes to get the size of plants you want.

I only say i veg for half the time with hydro because my plants grow so much faster in hydro through stretch.
 

reasonevangelist

Well-Known Member
Ya dont know til ya know bro. You may forsee the negatives, but until you have tried and succeeded with hydro, you will never be abke to weigh the negatives vs positives.


This post is soil vs. Hydro, therfore no matter your stance, your opinion is only half valid.

I dont think you have any hydro zealots on your back, just people that are in awe someone is arguing woth them aboit a subject they are not versed in.



For me it all comes down to time. If i want some big bitches and im short on time ill go with hydro and cut the veg time in half. Soil is easy and I never think twice or even measure EC and ph.

I believe soil overall is easier, bit i also run one big plant at a time 99% of the time so transplants are non issue.

And for the record, not a single person on this forum could decipher between my soil or hydro nugs... yiels is always comparable as well if the plants end up the same size. Ive done side by sideswith over 20 strains in my day, and only a few hydro girls drastically outperform soil... sometimes vise versa
Hydro would be more difficult in my situation.

Prior to having become an expert in both disciplines, a choice must be made. That choice is not required to be based on highest yield or fastest growth. The physical actions involved, as well as the specific maintenance requirements, versus preexisting environmental factors, plus ideological preference, are all relevant.

I never argued Against Hydro. I expressed a pro-soil opinion, based on ideology, experience level, and available information (including my own physical characteristics and environment, which i'm the only one here qualified to know about) and the Hydro Zealots freaked out about it (notice not all of the pro-hydro people are "zealots," and not all of them freaked out).

Being pro-soil is not synonymous with being anti-hydro.

That's where the problem happened. Some of the pro-hydro people wanted to make it seem "stupid" to think a soil preference can be acceptable. I never said it was "stupid" to prefer hydro, and yet, i'm the one getting all the bullshit. How stupid.

Some people either intentionally misrepresented my position, or misinterpreted it, and then started slinging poo.

I think it's a bit ironic when someone comes in trying to act like a scientist, but then acts as if they cannot possibly be wrong, about something with which they have zero experience, and cannot test (in other words: me, my views, my circumstances)... all the while trying to make it seem like i'm the one with hopelessly flawed reasoning.

All because they're upset that i don't want to do what they define as "superior," while several experienced hydro growers have offered, without being prompted, that the quality difference is either negligible, or not even discernible. The biggest difference is allegedly Veg speed and Yield... and while veg speed seems like a valuable advantage, it's not like i could yield twice as much in half the time in the same space. Part of the reason i compared it to overclocking, is because i've been building my own water-cooled PCs for years, and i know exactly how much of a hassle it can be to have to make sure nothing leaks, and then have anxiety about hoping i didn't manage to overlook something important, despite being so meticulous that it takes me longer to complete a build, or even reconnect and refill and get settled again, after a flush/refill. Not something i want to deal with, more than i already do. Maybe if i go back to air cooling, i might feel like watercooling some overclocked plants. I don't think standing water is a good idea where i am, and pumps both complicate the process, offer more chances for something to go wrong, and use more electricity. Plus, i want my little micro-forest, not a weed-lab. Trying to make "lab-conditions" here would be futile. Maybe i will have a weed-lab someday, full of overclocked monster-plants... but when it comes down to it, and i have to choose between "natural" and "test-tube-pot," i choose natural. It's just the way i am, and it's not wrong, and no one should take offense (yet they do). It would be better anyway, for me to first go through the process of establishing a thorough understanding of the most natural and sustainable methods available, and then to take that further, and learn hydro, but with enough knowledge to keep it "as eco-friendly and sustainable as possible." I have no resource to consult, to teach me how to achieve a satisfactorily, equivalently "earth-friendly" hydro method, nor do i have the means to access all the right materials, nor do i have any inclination to build an elaborate setup which may need to be destroyed, or which may be unjustly confiscated. I want to keep it as simple as possible, as natural as feasible, and feel good about what i'm doing, and while doing it.

I've seen parts lists and build logs and who knows how many pictures of lots of different styles of hydro setups, and plenty of "hydro-problem" threads. I think using a big pot of soil is far simpler, and less of a mental requirement. I don't mind lifting a heavy object occasionally, but it's not my favorite thing to do. I don't think a month is too long between cracking a seed and flipping to flower. I don't have that much space or excessive light anyway. Using minimal amounts of dry plant meals to make slurry and/or top dress (which isn't even entirely necessary), is much easier than becoming a chemist (i mean, unless you're already a chemist, but can't understand a teaspoon...). There are simply too many other things that drain my time and mental energy. I won't be able to become a chemist, too late for that, but i will be able to understand, well enough, how plants and soil work together. Interestingly enough, along the way, i will be unable to avoid exposure to the perpetual comparisons to how hydro works, in contrast to how "living organic soil" works.

Plus, as i already mentioned: even if hydro is not my choice, for various reasons, i still find it interesting and intriguing. If anyone knows of a good "living organic hydro" (lol) resource, link it up, i'll have a gander.

That said... i'm not on the fence. I know which way i want to go, and why, regardless of the unwarranted criticism. Not saying anyone's grass sucks, just that mine is green enough that i don't need to wish i was in your yard. Which is exactly how i like things to be.
 

waterdawg

Well-Known Member
Oh no!!! And the myths and presumptions just keep coming. Man I agree with your choice to grow the way you want, but you have to stop with the assumptions. Organic hydro systems are out there and I have never tried one because "I assume" they require more work, that is only an assumption untill I actually try it, could be the best of the best lol. Your assuming and perpetuating myths, half truths! Thats why you are being challenged (and sadly in some cases attacked). Talking about labs, chemists, overclocking, is a generalization of the whole hydro thing. I definatly do not have a lab lol. I have two bottles of nutes and ph down due to well water at 7, I have less in my shed now than when doing soil. Again not saying my way is better but If talking about a subject and offering advice ( I try not too) I damn sure get my facts right, thats where IMO you have failed miserably.
 

AKrbb907

Well-Known Member
Oh no!!! And the myths and presumptions just keep coming. Man I agree with your choice to grow the way you want, but you have to stop with the assumptions. Organic hydro systems are out there and I have never tried one because "I assume" they require more work, that is only an assumption untill I actually try it, could be the best of the best lol. Your assuming and perpetuating myths, half truths! Thats why you are being challenged (and sadly in some cases attacked). Talking about labs, chemists, overclocking, is a generalization of the whole hydro thing. I definatly do not have a lab lol. I have two bottles of nutes and ph down due to well water at 7, I have less in my shed now than when doing soil. Again not saying my way is better but If talking about a subject and offering advice ( I try not too) I damn sure get my facts right, thats where IMO you have failed miserably.
NO SHIT! i figured he would have left by now... every single person in thread is discrediting his theory and opinion. at this point all hes doing is trolling...
 

hydroMD

Well-Known Member
Hydro would be more difficult in my situation.

Prior to having become an expert in both disciplines, a choice must be made. That choice is not required to be based on highest yield or fastest growth. The physical actions involved, as well as the specific maintenance requirements, versus preexisting environmental factors, plus ideological preference, are all relevant.

I never argued Against Hydro. I expressed a pro-soil opinion, based on ideology, experience level, and available information (including my own physical characteristics and environment, which i'm the only one here qualified to know about) and the Hydro Zealots freaked out about it (notice not all of the pro-hydro people are "zealots," and not all of them freaked out).

Being pro-soil is not synonymous with being anti-hydro.

That's where the problem happened. Some of the pro-hydro people wanted to make it seem "stupid" to think a soil preference can be acceptable. I never said it was "stupid" to prefer hydro, and yet, i'm the one getting all the bullshit. How stupid.

Some people either intentionally misrepresented my position, or misinterpreted it, and then started slinging poo.

I think it's a bit ironic when someone comes in trying to act like a scientist, but then acts as if they cannot possibly be wrong, about something with which they have zero experience, and cannot test (in other words: me, my views, my circumstances)... all the while trying to make it seem like i'm the one with hopelessly flawed reasoning.

All because they're upset that i don't want to do what they define as "superior," while several experienced hydro growers have offered, without being prompted, that the quality difference is either negligible, or not even discernible. The biggest difference is allegedly Veg speed and Yield... and while veg speed seems like a valuable advantage, it's not like i could yield twice as much in half the time in the same space. Part of the reason i compared it to overclocking, is because i've been building my own water-cooled PCs for years, and i know exactly how much of a hassle it can be to have to make sure nothing leaks, and then have anxiety about hoping i didn't manage to overlook something important, despite being so meticulous that it takes me longer to complete a build, or even reconnect and refill and get settled again, after a flush/refill. Not something i want to deal with, more than i already do. Maybe if i go back to air cooling, i might feel like watercooling some overclocked plants. I don't think standing water is a good idea where i am, and pumps both complicate the process, offer more chances for something to go wrong, and use more electricity. Plus, i want my little micro-forest, not a weed-lab. Trying to make "lab-conditions" here would be futile. Maybe i will have a weed-lab someday, full of overclocked monster-plants... but when it comes down to it, and i have to choose between "natural" and "test-tube-pot," i choose natural. It's just the way i am, and it's not wrong, and no one should take offense (yet they do). It would be better anyway, for me to first go through the process of establishing a thorough understanding of the most natural and sustainable methods available, and then to take that further, and learn hydro, but with enough knowledge to keep it "as eco-friendly and sustainable as possible." I have no resource to consult, to teach me how to achieve a satisfactorily, equivalently "earth-friendly" hydro method, nor do i have the means to access all the right materials, nor do i have any inclination to build an elaborate setup which may need to be destroyed, or which may be unjustly confiscated. I want to keep it as simple as possible, as natural as feasible, and feel good about what i'm doing, and while doing it.

I've seen parts lists and build logs and who knows how many pictures of lots of different styles of hydro setups, and plenty of "hydro-problem" threads. I think using a big pot of soil is far simpler, and less of a mental requirement. I don't mind lifting a heavy object occasionally, but it's not my favorite thing to do. I don't think a month is too long between cracking a seed and flipping to flower. I don't have that much space or excessive light anyway. Using minimal amounts of dry plant meals to make slurry and/or top dress (which isn't even entirely necessary), is much easier than becoming a chemist (i mean, unless you're already a chemist, but can't understand a teaspoon...). There are simply too many other things that drain my time and mental energy. I won't be able to become a chemist, too late for that, but i will be able to understand, well enough, how plants and soil work together. Interestingly enough, along the way, i will be unable to avoid exposure to the perpetual comparisons to how hydro works, in contrast to how "living organic soil" works.

Plus, as i already mentioned: even if hydro is not my choice, for various reasons, i still find it interesting and intriguing. If anyone knows of a good "living organic hydro" (lol) resource, link it up, i'll have a gander.

That said... i'm not on the fence. I know which way i want to go, and why, regardless of the unwarranted criticism. Not saying anyone's grass sucks, just that mine is green enough that i don't need to wish i was in your yard. Which is exactly how i like things to be.

Hydro would be more difficult in my situation.

Prior to having become an expert in both disciplines, a choice must be made. That choice is not required to be based on highest yield or fastest growth. The physical actions involved, as well as the specific maintenance requirements, versus preexisting environmental factors, plus ideological preference, are all relevant.

I never argued Against Hydro. I expressed a pro-soil opinion, based on ideology, experience level, and available information (including my own physical characteristics and environment, which i'm the only one here qualified to know about) and the Hydro Zealots freaked out about it (notice not all of the pro-hydro people are "zealots," and not all of them freaked out).

Being pro-soil is not synonymous with being anti-hydro.

That's where the problem happened. Some of the pro-hydro people wanted to make it seem "stupid" to think a soil preference can be acceptable. I never said it was "stupid" to prefer hydro, and yet, i'm the one getting all the bullshit. How stupid.

Some people either intentionally misrepresented my position, or misinterpreted it, .
1. This is a soild VS. hydro thread. Not soil OR hydro.... therefore if you have no experience with one or both methods, why interject moot opinion?

2. To understand the reaction between plant and soil is the same as understanding reactions of nutrient enriched water with air stones. All the same things are going on. Just because someone is juicing tueir veggies doesnt mean they are a mad scientist and your body reacts completely different.


3. How is fallowing the directions on the back of a bottle considered becoming a chemist!!!! Your ridiculous!! You obviously have a pre detirmined opinion of hydro based on nothing, that you have convinced yourself you need a PHD. I started hydro when i was 18 BECAUSE i didnt know how a plant worked and wanted to be able to check all my variables at any time.


I grow both, partial to none as far as quality, but hydro is more fun.

I think anyone who says u cant yield the same in organic soil as you can in synthetic hydro needs to realize its because they got no skills, not because hydro is far superior.

However, all of your imaginary reasons why you dont like hydro are somewhat moot considering YOU HAVE NOT TRIED AND SUCCEEDED WITH IT!!!!! Until then, start your replies with-


"I personally have never grown hydro so I have zero knowledge what so ever to add to this discussiin, however when I grew a hydro plant in my imagination, it was really hard imagining all those water changes... and having to buy a single submersible pump to change water with? I imagine that is very expensive and a huge headache. I think ill fill a bucket by hand and carry it to each individual soil plant instead, cause in fantasy land it is much easier.... if im imagining correctly."
 

reasonevangelist

Well-Known Member
Oh no!!! And the myths and presumptions just keep coming. Man I agree with your choice to grow the way you want, but you have to stop with the assumptions. Organic hydro systems are out there and I have never tried one because "I assume" they require more work, that is only an assumption untill I actually try it, could be the best of the best lol. Your assuming and perpetuating myths, half truths! Thats why you are being challenged (and sadly in some cases attacked). Talking about labs, chemists, overclocking, is a generalization of the whole hydro thing. I definatly do not have a lab lol. I have two bottles of nutes and ph down due to well water at 7, I have less in my shed now than when doing soil. Again not saying my way is better but If talking about a subject and offering advice ( I try not too) I damn sure get my facts right, thats where IMO you have failed miserably.
Did i say those systems don't exist? No. I just said i wasn't aware of them, and/or hadn't found one i thought was suitable, and invited anyone who may know of one that might suit my preference, to link it up. If such a thing exists, i would like to know.

Also: not all assumptions are invalid. Lots of people like to throw around the witticism "never assume," but what you people don't seem to realize is that tentative assumptions are often necessary, and i'm not asserting any of them as absolutisms, despite being misrepresented as such. I'm not "just imagining," i'm Estimating, based on the available information i've been able to encounter (which i never said was complete, since why would i say that if i haven't personally tried it? And why would anyone "assume" that's what i mean, when it's completely obvious that a person who has yet to try something, can only make a decision about whether to try it, based on available information not including experience with that particular thing?).

This "you're not allowed/able to have a valid opinion" thing is bullshit. It makes me think lots of people here actually lack cognitive ability, and/or are incredibly biased, to the point of deluding themselves (which i'm sure you'll find ironic of me to say, since you're determined to misinterpret and misrepresent my position in the matter).

Anyway... you guys can do whatever. My intentions never included convincing anyone not to use hydro, so idk why you all seem to feel the need to defend anything, as if i'm somehow demeaning your way of life or something. If that's how any of you interpreted any of this, you're way off base, and should reexamine your English comprehension and interpretive tendencies. The first thing you think, might not always be the right thing. I know that; why don't others? And why are those others the ones accusing me of not understanding that, when it's me having to reiterate the same point that keeps getting disregarded?

"There are valid reasons to prefer living organic soil over hydroponics." Not sure why that statement should upset anyone. Never said there were no valid reasons to prefer hydro; obviously there are.
 

waterdawg

Well-Known Member
I think about as good as, if not better than, the chemicals I mix up in the lab. :-D. This is all assumed of course as I have not actually tried unicorn poop. Tried to catch one last friday coming out of the bar but he/she eluded me.
 

hyroot

Well-Known Member
nothing compares to natural organics. It's the best there is. Hands down. The only organic hydro in existence is aquaponics using fish and rock dust. The only bottled nutrient that is truly organic is dragonfly earth medicine. All the other nutrient companies lie. Botanicare, general organics and so on is all chems. Check with the department of agriculture. The nutrient companies have to register each product and disclose all ingredients ( not on the bottle) to legally sell products. Omri listed is pure bull shit. Anyone can pay and get an omri listed. You can get Windex omri listed for the right price. One example is pure spray green. They claimed to be organic and even had an omri listing. They lied. Pure spray green is made from petroleum. Last year it was banned from California. Hydro force feeds a plant. Telling it when to feed and what to feed . By that cutting corners not allowing genetics to grow to their full potential. Natural organic living soil. The plant is in control and feeds when it wants a d what it wants. Nutes are already in the soil. With hydro you also have to keep a closer track of the brix levels and add sugars (non fermenting) more often.

I ran hydro aero and ebb n flow for 8 years. Been doing living organics for 4 years. Never will go back to hydro. It's better quality. Far less work. 30 times cheaper. I spend less in a year in my garden (10x10) than I spent in a month doing hydro (5x5).

then there's the issues of chemicals your body absorbs when smoking or eating chemically grown pot. Just like bho. Long term causing cancer, brain damage, respiratory diseases, liver damage, metal poisoning, etc...

when you go to the grocery store. Do you buy organic veggies or chemy grown veggies. That says it all right there.
 
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WHODAT@THADOR

Well-Known Member
nothing compares to natural organics. It's the best there is. Hands down. The only organic hydro in existence is aquaponics using fish and rock dust. The only bottled nutrient that is truly organic is dragonfly earth medicine. All the other nutrient companies lie. Botanicare, general organics and so on is all chems. Check with the department of agriculture. The nutrient companies have to register each product and disclose all ingredients ( not on the bottle) to legally sell products. Omri listed is pure bull shit. Anyone can pay and get an omri listed. You can get Windex omri listed for the right price. One example is pure spray green. They claimed to be organic and even had an omri listing. They lied. Pure spray green is made from petroleum. Last year it was banned from California. Hydro force feeds a plant. Telling it when to feed and what to feed . By that cutting corners not allowing genetics to grow to their full potential. Natural organic living soil. The plant is in control and feeds when it wants a d what it wants. Nutes are already in the soil. With hydro you also have to keep a closer track of the brix levels and add sugars (non fermenting) more often.

I ran hydro aero and ebb n flow for 8 years. Been doing living organics for 4 years. Never will go back to hydro. It's better quality. Far less work. 30 times cheaper. I spend less in a year in my garden (10x10) than I spent in a month doing hydro (5x5).
I actually thought about putting a fewof my fish in my bucket's ...But to do so you would have to create a biofilter to support the fish..Which means allowing Nitrifying bacteria to produce do you think that would effect the Nitrogen level's the plant need's?.....I would imagine if just left alone the N would probably be insufficient....And if you did add any it may have a reverse effect and cause a bacterial bloom?
 

hyroot

Well-Known Member
I actually thought about putting a fewof my fish in my bucket's ...But to do so you would have to create a biofilter to support the fish..Which means allowing Nitrifying bacteria to produce do you think that would effect the Nitrogen level's the plant need's?.....I would imagine if just left alone the N would probably be insufficient....And if you did add any it may have a reverse effect and cause a bacterial bloom?
check the Inda gro Induction thread in the led section. @chazbolin is doing aquaponics using various fish and volcanic rock dust in a tea bag. He can answer questions about aquaponics better than I can.

also I think it depends on the type of fish and what they eat.

here's the link to that thread

http://rollitup.org/t/inda-gro-induction.506257/page-106#post-10957109
 
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