Soil Vs Hydro

Sativied said:

More 'reasoning'...

As if I expected to convince you after seeing your lack of reasoning so far... you're obviously not living up to that username.

Click to expand...

Evangelical reason? Seems like a contradiction in terms.

Sativied said:

More 'reasoning'...

As if I expected to convince you after seeing your lack of reasoning so far... you're obviously not living up to that username.

Click to expand...

I must be getting to you, since your fallacy ratio keeps increasing.

You presume to know more about my alleged "assumptions" than i do, and which information i've encountered, and my ability to discern relevant factors merely via observation.

You also seem to miss the point that, Subjectively, and in My circumstances, hydro is not suitable. There are many more relevant aspects involved, but these are key.

I know more about my understanding of me, than you ever will. Stop assuming you know what i know, better than i do. My brain is a system you won't be able to sufficiently comprehend, to become qualified to credibly assess it.

You're still preaching from the stance of superior performance and "hydro zealotry," while using character attacks to try to make soil seem not just inferior, but not even worthwhile. It's frankly ridiculous. Judging by your other posts, i would have expected more from you... but i suppose we all have our flaws.

SnapsProvolone said:

Evangelical reason? Seems like a contradiction in terms.

Click to expand...

When you've lived among my conditions, you'd understand why the fundamental concept of reason might need to be evangelized.

This happens to me often, actually; people attack my usernames and attempt to assert that my choice of username is somehow indicative of some character flaw, or whatever.

Due to the fact that it has become increasingly apparent that insisting people be reasonable, isn't going to work, i've been considering changing it.

Not all preferences are based on sheer power, sheer performance, or sheer superiority. Sometimes "yin" is better than "yang," or finesse is better than brute force. I could make many analogies that a person willing to be reasonable might find useful to help them understand an alternate perspective...

But as i've often stated: the power of words requires, and is dependent upon, an audience.

In other words: talking to someone who won't listen, is futile. Too bad i can't force you to understand.

reasonevangelist said:

I must be getting to you, since your fallacy ratio keeps increasing.

Click to expand...

Look in the mirror since you are obviously talking about yourself and projecting that on me. You're mildly entertaining though so:

reasonevangelist said:

You presume to know more about my alleged "assumptions" than i do

Click to expand...

Again, an incorrect assumption I "know" you make rather than presume to know you make. After all you're making the assumption in a post, writing it out, about what I presume, while I'm pretty sure I only know what I presume. So you are presuming to know what I presume about your alleged assumptions, while they aren't alleged but posted above. I also know for a fact they are false, unlike you I grow both soil and hydro and coco and hempy and hydroton and rockwool.

Besides, I clearly mentioned "or whatever misconception you had" as your particular assumptions are irrelevant. The fact remains you are uninformed, and that's the quote you quoted with a quote you don't even understand yourself. Which makes the following comment just.... just... wow....

reasonevangelist said:

In other words: talking to someone who won't listen, is futile. Too bad i can't force you to understand.

Click to expand...

Wow... you're stuck in some sort of ignorance limbo... good luck with that.

SnapsProvolone said:

Evangelical reason? Seems like a contradiction in terms.

Click to expand...

Oh... I thought he was about evangelizing logic reasoning, but it's one of those christian atheists... that explains.

Sativied said:

Look in the mirror since you are obviously talking about yourself and projecting that on me. You're mildly entertaining though so:

Again, an incorrect assumption I "know" you make rather than presume to know you make. After all you're making the assumption in a post, writing it out, about what I presume, while I'm pretty sure I only know what I presume. So you are presuming to know what I presume about your alleged assumptions, while they aren't alleged but posted above. I also know for a fact they are false, unlike you I grow both soil and hydro and coco and hempy and hydroton and rockwool.

Besides, I clearly mentioned "or whatever misconception you had" as your particular assumptions are irrelevant. The fact remains you are uninformed, and that's the quote you quoted with a quote you don't even understand yourself. Which makes the following comment just.... just... wow....

Wow... you're stuck in some sort of ignorance limbo... good luck with that.


Oh... I thought he was about evangelizing logic reasoning, but it's one of those christian atheists... that explains.

Click to expand...

You're trying really hard to convince... someone, i guess, not sure who, that you have some sort of superior position and cannot be wrong.

lol.

You don't realize you are doing exactly what you are accusing me of not realizing i've done (which i haven't, actually)... while still completely missing the point.

You should try being more reasonable.

Anybody try running Bubble sponges in there reservoir's verses's just regular airstone's? I use them in my fish tank's all they time (and my bucket's)and they really help in the culturing of beneficial bacteria's and such and allow you to do full water change's without loss of beneficial Microbe's and Bacteria.....Haven't seen anybody talk about it and was just wondering am I the only one

FrozenChozen said:

The probes monitor, there is ZERO automation in feeding/watering, I have no recirculation from a larger reservoir, no float valve adding water, and generally speaking I have ZERO MAD SCIENTIST SHIT going on.
If you are at all confused as to what I'm saying or why I believe what I am saying read this:
http://bohemiawga.weebly.com/uploads/3/2/6/7/3267391/lbna24893enn.pdf
It might be mad scientist shit but I think you can hang....

Hydro is cleaner, more efficient, yields bigger better flowers, and when done correctly is nearly maintenance free. Not to mention the fact that I can control any potential issues in 24 hours or less....

Click to expand...

I think what you mean is you have succesfully dialed in hydro, but have yet to do so in soil.

Hydro grows faster with larger noding during stretch, soil vegges a little longer...

Its not about which is better, its about which you can keep conditions optimal an entire run.

WHODAT@THADOR said:

Anybody try running Bubble sponges in there reservoir's verses's just regular airstone's? I use them in my fish tank's all they time (and my bucket's)and they really help in the culturing of beneficial bacteria's and such and allow you to do full water change's without loss of beneficial Microbe's and Bacteria.....Haven't seen anybody talk about it and was just wondering am I the only one

Click to expand...

I gave up on stones and air pumps entirely, now I don't use them at all. Plants love it.

reasonevangelist said:

You're trying really hard to convince... someone, i guess, not sure who, that you have some sort of superior position and cannot be wrong.

lol.

You don't realize you are doing exactly what you are accusing me of not realizing i've done (which i haven't, actually)... while still completely missing the point.

You should try being more reasonable.

Click to expand...

You're missing the point. You never grew hydro.

I call Troll. You're iust here trying to get a rise. Go grow some hydro and perhaps learn something.

Until then, stuff a sock in it.

SnapsProvolone said:

You're missing the point. You never grew hydro.

I call Troll. You're iust here trying to get a rise. Go grow some hydro and perhaps learn something.

Until then, stuff a sock in it.

Click to expand...

You're missing the point i'm making and defending. You're both making invalid assumptions in and while accusing me of doing the same, and misattributing my decision to ignorance of performance superiority, which is not the priority in my situation. I don't care if it's "technically superior," because it involves factors i am disinclined to deal with, and it is not technically-superior-enough, to justify dealing with the parts i would rather avoid (which you apparently refuse to acknowledge even exist... and i can't argue against that, because subjectivity; your method of interpreting reality omits the existence of things i find to be important, while mine, on the other hand, acknowledges your claims of superiority, but does not prioritize the factors you deem most relevant).

Performance is not the determining factor of my preference, And, the potential performance gains are insufficient to sway my preference, and i CAN and HAVE justifiably determined this, through "mere" observation, without having to actually do the experiment, to figure out that i don't need to do the experiment (null hypothesis)... but you don't understand that. Should i call you greedy? Superficial and materialistic? Antagonistic? Unreasonable?

You have no idea what information i've encountered, from which or how many sources, or how long i've researched; yet you both deign yourselves qualified to tell me what i know... but ironically enough, NOT what i DON'T know (if any of that is even relevant). I started paying attention to cannabis at least 20 years ago, and you're trying to tell me i don't know what hydro is, and don't know enough to make a decision and have a preference based on actual factual information. LOL.

You apparently think it's impossible for anyone to choose soil over hydro based on facts, instead of based on ignorance and "ganja myth."

You apparently think it's impossible for someone to know something is not right for themselves, prior to performing it.

Do you know unjustified violence is wrong? How? Someone told you so? Have you tried it yet? By your logic, being on the receiving end isn't good enough, you have to harm someone who doesn't deserve it, before you can know it's not what you want to do.

Or, you can realize and admit that it's actually possible to determine that a thing is not* appealing, for whatever reason, prior to actually doing it.

And you can then consider that subjectivity actually matters, in many cases, and that a thing that is subjectively unappealing, doesn't matter if it's "technically superior," in non-prioritized ways.


Here is where i will clarify and admit: part of my decision IS because of lack of hydro expertise: i know i don't know enough to avoid all the important potential hydro pitfalls. But that's only part of it. I am more interested in "all natural all organic" anyway, because How i do things is often as important as What i'm doing. I find it... quite common, in fact, that too many people seem to insist that "how" is irrelevant compared to "what." It isn't, in my life. How i do what i do, and the reasons for doing it the Way i do it, is important to me; more important than "overclocking plants."

I've already acknowledged that i think it's "cool" that you guys are able to "overclock plants" and squeeze more robust results out of them, by "hacking" nature... but i don't want to do that. I want "as natural as possible" indoor plants. I give that part significant weight in my decision process here, and maybe you disagree, and you're entitled to that disagreement, but you're unable to qualify yourself to assess my ability to know what's right for me, in my circumstances, and choosing what you call "inferior" is not wrong, and not due to invalid information, or absence of valid information.

Despite what i don't know, i also know what i know, and i know enough to know that hydro is not a suitable method for me.

Great soil can grow great plants too. It's irrational to represent me as the ignorant one, due to my contrary preference, and prioritizing of factors other than technical superiority through "plant hacking." I certainly don't expect my plants to be superior to those of any seasoned grower with more dialed in conditions.

But if i like and use soil, i'm going to have a better day-to-day experience with my grows, than i would by using hydro just because haughty arrogant hydro zealots insist it's so much better that anyone who prefers otherwise must necessarily be "too ignorant to make a sound choice."

You guys might want to look up the definition of "humble."

My life is not about being the best or most of anything. It's not a new thing that lots of people apparently take issue with those not being my priorities. But it is one of the quick and dirty ways i'm able to discern whether i like someone or not.

reasonevangelist said:

You're missing the point i'm making and defending. You're both making invalid assumptions in and while accusing me of doing the same, and misattributing my decision to ignorance of performance superiority, which is not the priority in my situation. I don't care if it's "technically superior," because it involves factors i am disinclined to deal with, and it is not technically-superior-enough, to justify dealing with the parts i would rather avoid (which you apparently refuse to acknowledge even exist... and i can't argue against that, because subjectivity; your method of interpreting reality omits the existence of things i find to be important, while mine, on the other hand, acknowledges your claims of superiority, but does not prioritize the factors you deem most relevant).

Performance is not the determining factor of my preference, And, the potential performance gains are insufficient to sway my preference, and i CAN and HAVE justifiably determined this, through "mere" observation, without having to actually do the experiment, to figure out that i don't need to do the experiment (null hypothesis)... but you don't understand that. Should i call you greedy? Superficial and materialistic? Antagonistic? Unreasonable?

You have no idea what information i've encountered, from which or how many sources, or how long i've researched; yet you both deign yourselves qualified to tell me what i know... but ironically enough, NOT what i DON'T know (if any of that is even relevant). I started paying attention to cannabis at least 20 years ago, and you're trying to tell me i don't know what hydro is, and don't know enough to make a decision and have a preference based on actual factual information. LOL.

You apparently think it's impossible for anyone to choose soil over hydro based on facts, instead of based on ignorance and "ganja myth."

You apparently think it's impossible for someone to know something is not right for themselves, prior to performing it.

Do you know unjustified violence is wrong? How? Someone told you so? Have you tried it yet? By your logic, being on the receiving end isn't good enough, you have to harm someone who doesn't deserve it, before you can know it's not what you want to do.

Or, you can realize and admit that it's actually possible to determine that a thing is not* appealing, for whatever reason, prior to actually doing it.

And you can then consider that subjectivity actually matters, in many cases, and that a thing that is subjectively unappealing, doesn't matter if it's "technically superior," in non-prioritized ways.


Here is where i will clarify and admit: part of my decision IS because of lack of hydro expertise: i know i don't know enough to avoid all the important potential hydro pitfalls. But that's only part of it. I am more interested in "all natural all organic" anyway, because How i do things is often as important as What i'm doing. I find it... quite common, in fact, that too many people seem to insist that "how" is irrelevant compared to "what." It isn't, in my life. How i do what i do, and the reasons for doing it the Way i do it, is important to me; more important than "overclocking plants."

I've already acknowledged that i think it's "cool" that you guys are able to "overclock plants" and squeeze more robust results out of them, by "hacking" nature... but i don't want to do that. I want "as natural as possible" indoor plants. I give that part significant weight in my decision process here, and maybe you disagree, and you're entitled to that disagreement, but you're unable to qualify yourself to assess my ability to know what's right for me, in my circumstances, and choosing what you call "inferior" is not wrong, and not due to invalid information, or absence of valid information.

Despite what i don't know, i also know what i know, and i know enough to know that hydro is not a suitable method for me.

Great soil can grow great plants too. It's irrational to represent me as the ignorant one, due to my contrary preference, and prioritizing of factors other than technical superiority through "plant hacking." I certainly don't expect my plants to be superior to those of any seasoned grower with more dialed in conditions.

But if i like and use soil, i'm going to have a better day-to-day experience with my grows, than i would by using hydro just because haughty arrogant hydro zealots insist it's so much better that anyone who prefers otherwise must necessarily be "too ignorant to make a sound choice."

You guys might want to look up the definition of "humble."

My life is not about being the best or most of anything. It's not a new thing that lots of people apparently take issue with those not being my priorities. But it is one of the quick and dirty ways i'm able to discern whether i like someone or not.

Click to expand...

Can you simplify that to a couple sentences?

reasonevangelist said:

You're missing the point i'm making and defending. You're both making invalid assumptions in and while accusing me of doing the same, and misattributing my decision to ignorance of performance superiority, which is not the priority in my situation. I don't care if it's "technically superior," because it involves factors i am disinclined to deal with, and it is not technically-superior-enough, to justify dealing with the parts i would rather avoid (which you apparently refuse to acknowledge even exist... and i can't argue against that, because subjectivity; your method of interpreting reality omits the existence of things i find to be important, while mine, on the other hand, acknowledges your claims of superiority, but does not prioritize the factors you deem most relevant).

Performance is not the determining factor of my preference, And, the potential performance gains are insufficient to sway my preference, and i CAN and HAVE justifiably determined this, through "mere" observation, without having to actually do the experiment, to figure out that i don't need to do the experiment (null hypothesis)... but you don't understand that. Should i call you greedy? Superficial and materialistic? Antagonistic? Unreasonable?

You have no idea what information i've encountered, from which or how many sources, or how long i've researched; yet you both deign yourselves qualified to tell me what i know... but ironically enough, NOT what i DON'T know (if any of that is even relevant). I started paying attention to cannabis at least 20 years ago, and you're trying to tell me i don't know what hydro is, and don't know enough to make a decision and have a preference based on actual factual information. LOL.

You apparently think it's impossible for anyone to choose soil over hydro based on facts, instead of based on ignorance and "ganja myth."

You apparently think it's impossible for someone to know something is not right for themselves, prior to performing it.

Do you know unjustified violence is wrong? How? Someone told you so? Have you tried it yet? By your logic, being on the receiving end isn't good enough, you have to harm someone who doesn't deserve it, before you can know it's not what you want to do.

Or, you can realize and admit that it's actually possible to determine that a thing is not* appealing, for whatever reason, prior to actually doing it.

And you can then consider that subjectivity actually matters, in many cases, and that a thing that is subjectively unappealing, doesn't matter if it's "technically superior," in non-prioritized ways.


Here is where i will clarify and admit: part of my decision IS because of lack of hydro expertise: i know i don't know enough to avoid all the important potential hydro pitfalls. But that's only part of it. I am more interested in "all natural all organic" anyway, because How i do things is often as important as What i'm doing. I find it... quite common, in fact, that too many people seem to insist that "how" is irrelevant compared to "what." It isn't, in my life. How i do what i do, and the reasons for doing it the Way i do it, is important to me; more important than "overclocking plants."

I've already acknowledged that i think it's "cool" that you guys are able to "overclock plants" and squeeze more robust results out of them, by "hacking" nature... but i don't want to do that. I want "as natural as possible" indoor plants. I give that part significant weight in my decision process here, and maybe you disagree, and you're entitled to that disagreement, but you're unable to qualify yourself to assess my ability to know what's right for me, in my circumstances, and choosing what you call "inferior" is not wrong, and not due to invalid information, or absence of valid information.

Despite what i don't know, i also know what i know, and i know enough to know that hydro is not a suitable method for me.

Great soil can grow great plants too. It's irrational to represent me as the ignorant one, due to my contrary preference, and prioritizing of factors other than technical superiority through "plant hacking." I certainly don't expect my plants to be superior to those of any seasoned grower with more dialed in conditions.

But if i like and use soil, i'm going to have a better day-to-day experience with my grows, than i would by using hydro just because haughty arrogant hydro zealots insist it's so much better that anyone who prefers otherwise must necessarily be "too ignorant to make a sound choice."

You guys might want to look up the definition of "humble."

My life is not about being the best or most of anything. It's not a new thing that lots of people apparently take issue with those not being my priorities. But it is one of the quick and dirty ways i'm able to discern whether i like someone or not.

Click to expand...

You should realize that at best I skim your ramblings, discounting them as trolling.

ProHuman said:

Can you simplify that to a couple sentences?

Click to expand...

Probably not.

SnapsProvolone said:

You should realize that at best I skim your ramblings, discounting them as trolling.

Click to expand...

Which makes you unqualified to have a valid opinion about my opinion, per your own reasoning.

Ok guys enuff is enuff it's just the same facts geting repeated so lets just agree to disagree and although some exellent fact and new ways to do thing has been-established lets just put this one to bed now although I have thoroughly enjoyed it but lets just let everyone take their own path and find out forthemselfs which way is best FOR THEM......

So hydro wins right? LOL

waterdawg said:

So hydro wins right? LOL

Click to expand...

no way.. SOIL is the champ!

Ding, Ding.

Round freakin two.

Lol...

I herby declair it a draw ......happy now....

I started in soil, I'm in RDWC now. Each has its strengths.

For high performance indoor cultivation and the pursuit of maximum yields, very little beats RDWC.

For ease of use, low maintenance and outdoor/organic compatibility, very little beats organic soil building methods.

One is a wrench and the other is a hammer- and in order to feed a hungry twenty first century, we're going to need all the fucking tools we can get our hands on!