majority of employers favor raising minimum wage

Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Harrekin said:
You can check publicly registered companies financial statements/annual registered accounts online for free.

I'm not providing citations for something which is common sense to anyone who's ever seen a balance sheet.
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"I made a point, it's your job to prove it!"

I'm afraid you don't know how this works, buddy..

Your point is unsubstantiated until you prove it
 
Harrekin

Harrekin

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
Nobody chooses to work for minimum wage, they have to

So I disagree with your premise

The reason wages are so low is because business interests rigged the system in their favor, when we enact the 28th amendment sometime in this next decade, the wealth distribution will shift back to the middle class
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As I've said before, I don't disagree with increases (to adjust for inflation) to the minimum wage.

What I don't want to see is a smash and grab on employers that'll ultimately help no one.

The key to stopping people languishing in shit minimum wage jobs is to educate every young person in third level for free.

They work the shitty jobs till they graduate then pass it along to the next batch.

That's how the minimum wage is supposed to work, so I disagree with your premise because although I support your motive I don't think your method is effective.

Tackle the problem at its root and the weed dies.
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Harrekin said:
As I've said before, I don't disagree with increases (to adjust for inflation) to the minimum wage.

What I don't want to see is a smash and grab on employers that'll ultimately help no one.

The key to stopping people languishing in shit minimum wage jobs is to educate every young person in third level for free.

They work the shitty jobs till they graduate then pass it along to the next batch.

That's how the minimum wage is supposed to work, so I disagree with your premise because although I support your motive I don't think your method is effective.

Tackle the problem at its root and the weed dies.
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Sure that's how it's supposed to work, but that's not the way it does work, that's an important point

Also, where are all of these jobs going to come from for people moving up the ladder? There simply aren't that many jobs available, especially with older generations now putting off retirement even longer

Since that's the case, we have a responsibility and a moral obligation to pay people a wage they can survive on without utilizing government assistance. Why should I or you or any citizen have to pick up the slack created by the low wage provided by their employer? Do you think that's fair to the taxpayers?
 
Harrekin

Harrekin

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
Sure that's how it's supposed to work, but that's not the way it does work, that's an important point

Also, where are all of these jobs going to come from for people moving up the ladder? There simply aren't that many jobs available, especially with older generations now putting off retirement even longer

Since that's the case, we have a responsibility and a moral obligation to pay people a wage they can survive on without utilizing government assistance. Why should I or you or any citizen have to pick up the slack created by the low wage provided by their employer? Do you think that's fair to the taxpayers?
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The point is the taxpayer will have to pay it either way through higher prices (because I'm sorry but regardless of what you believe businesses do increase prices with increased costs) with the people on the bottom being disproportionately hit and the middle class has the very bottom cut out of it again.

Again, I agree with your motive but disagree with your solution not on an ideological basis but simply on one of practicality.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
The problem here is that you are nowhere near reality.

We've run the numbers before and wages come out ahead of inflation, not behind.

But keep repeating your lie and hope that it comes true, short stuff.

Harrekin said:
The point is the taxpayer will have to pay it either way through higher prices (because I'm sorry but regardless of what you believe businesses do increase prices with increased costs) with the people on the bottom being disproportionately hit and the middle class has the very bottom cut out of it again.

Again, I agree with your motive but disagree with your solution not on an ideological basis but simply on one of practicality.
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Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Harrekin said:
The point is the taxpayer will have to pay it either way through higher prices (because I'm sorry but regardless of what you believe businesses do increase prices with increased costs) with the people on the bottom being disproportionately hit and the middle class has the very bottom cut out of it again.

Again, I agree with your motive but disagree with your solution not on an ideological basis but simply on one of practicality.
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You say it's wrong for me to support the government increasing the minimum wage because it will take money from business owners, but it's OK for business owners to push that burden onto the taxpayers because "they will have to pay it either way"...

Do you understand how that's inconsistent?

I understand prices rise when wages rise, but I've already pointed out two points about that. 1. the earning power of increased wages will be greater than the negative effect of rising prices, and 2. I and the majority of Americans will gladly accept the increase if it means employees will make a living wage and get off safety net programs because that tiny increase is still less than the burden to the taxpayer of paying for those programs.
 
ginwilly

ginwilly

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
You say it's wrong for me to support the government increasing the minimum wage because it will take money from business owners, but it's OK for business owners to push that burden onto the taxpayers because "they will have to pay it either way"...

Do you understand how that's inconsistent?

I understand prices rise when wages rise, but I've already pointed out two points about that. 1. the earning power of increased wages will be greater than the negative effect of rising prices, and 2. I and the majority of Americans will gladly accept the increase if it means employees will make a living wage and get off safety net programs because that tiny increase is still less than the burden to the taxpayer of paying for those programs.
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Your entire premise is based on believing raising min wage to the poverty line will keep the line static. There would be a short term bounce of people coming out of poverty temporarily, then costs go up, the poverty line goes up, rinse and repeat.
 
Harrekin

Harrekin

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
You say it's wrong for me to support the government increasing the minimum wage because it will take money from business owners, but it's OK for business owners to push that burden onto the taxpayers because "they will have to pay it either way"...

Do you understand how that's inconsistent?

I understand prices rise when wages rise, but I've already pointed out two points about that. 1. the earning power of increased wages will be greater than the negative effect of rising prices, and 2. I and the majority of Americans will gladly accept the increase if it means employees will make a living wage and get off safety net programs because that tiny increase is still less than the burden to the taxpayer of paying for those programs.
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No what I stated twice was that you need to avoid the cause of the problem in the first place because treating the symptoms of a cold isn't curing a cold, you get me?
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
ginwilly said:
Your entire premise is based on believing raising min wage to the poverty line will keep the line static. There would be a short term bounce of people coming out of poverty temporarily, then costs go up, the poverty line goes up, rinse and repeat.
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Where is the evidence that shows costs rise past the new poverty line when you raise the minimum wage?

Harrekin said:
No what I stated twice was that you need to avoid the cause of the problem in the first place because treating the symptoms of a cold isn't curing a cold, you get me?
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What do you believe is the solution to this problem?
 
callitgood

callitgood

Member
Padawanbater2 said:
It is my business

Low wages negatively affect the economy which negatively affects me, and you, and everybody else

American taxpayers are picking up the slack of corporations through safety net programs, I pay taxes

That's why it's my business
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So you blame the corporations for bailouts?
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
ginwilly said:
Your entire premise is based on believing raising min wage to the poverty line will keep the line static.
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why do you need to lie? that just shows how weak your shitty argument is.

there's a reason why we advocate for minimum wage to be indexed to inflation, ginwillemina.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Dr Kynes said:
you forget, the price of any object is determined by how much the buyer is willing and able to pay.

if youre makin $5 an hour and that $3 cheezburger is within reach, when youre makin $10 that same cheezburger can be priced at dun dun dun...

$6.

and that cheezburger will in fact be priced at whatever the market will bear .

if in fact raisng the min wage had no impact on prices, and thus inflation, why not smply make the min wage $50 an hour and then everybody will be "Middle Class"?

because it wouldnt work, you know it wont work, you know its bullshit, your just playing the incrementalism game.

i would say "camel's nose under the tent" but bucklefuckle would scream about racism.
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well, he got rid of the zimbabwe reference and turned a billion an hour into $50 an hour, but the same foolishness remians.

kynes, are you forgetting that we went over this at length?

wages go up faster than costs do. we ran the BLS numbers. you cried. you whined.

NUH UH! BULLSHIT!, you said. you claimed the BLS numbers were fake.

and then i went to safeway vallejo and showed you that they are spot on accurate, evn in your little shithole you call home.

no need to keep repeating the lies, it won't make them true, but it will make you look dumber than you alread have been proven to be.
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
callitgood said:
I asked a question, thats what the question mark at the end of the sentence was for.
So, do you blame the corporations for the bailouts they get?
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I blame the government and the banks for the bailouts

If you're talking about subsidies, corporations and government share responsibility at the expense of the taxpayers
 
NLXSK1

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
You made a statement at the beginning of this discussion saying that labor costs only a SMALL FRACTION of the cost of an item.

You have been proven wrong. Now your argument is that he picked the wrong industry??

There is NO industry where labor costs a small fraction of the total cost. If you think there is, please feel free to PROVE IT.

You are the one that made the statement. Then suddenly you demand proof you are wrong. When you receive PROOF you are wrong you whine about it.

Put up or shut up with some evidence backing up your SMALL FRACTION statement.

You are a hypocrite on many levels.
 
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