Decomposing Wood

[Tazbud]

I'm helping a friend with his outdoor garden. We've grown together before but always probably luck rather than knowledge based. Last few years i've learnt a bit more, indoor, organics and soil mixes and like sourcing local ingredients in the process.

Where he's growing the soil is not bad, red/yellow clay (looking) but with some sandy and organic element. Stays 'clumped' but loose to work with. I'm thinking he needs some compost in there but also aeration. I'm doing a soil test for him but we spied all this dead, decomposing timber in the area. 'Sawdust' Termites aren't fast here so may hardwoods just seem to lay rotting in long red piles.

I'd say it's too low in general necessities to grow (not much seems to grow from the piles though shrubs seem to still send roots through it) but i'm thinking we may be able to use it as aeration? rather than for it's organics. It may in fact break down quickly and just be pretty silty stuff.

Maybe it's too hot still, robbing nitrogen? Is it worth trying to do a ph/NPK test on it with my soil kit? Any thoughts on whether it may have a place in his pots? It looks great, has a great texture etc, some charcoal through it (i'd assume from the initial fire and subsequent fires)

any thoughts on WooD:

 

[Tazbud]

hmmm, so iv'e read a few papers, blogs and opinions. All a bit touch and go as far as the stage of decomposition i'm assuming similar to studies of everyday woodchips and sawdust (though this stuff may have been composting for decades.

Apparently any nitrogen 'robbing' only really happens in the zone immediately under a mulch layer so can be counterbalanced by adding a nitrogen rich layer. As for going in the mix, I was thinking it wasn't worth the risk but then it's probably even more stable than (say) coco husk. The benefits are likely similar, little microbe niches, some slow composting, bug deterrent when used as a mulch etc.

Some general reading:

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=uMIXAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA13&lpg=PA13&dq=hardwood decomposed&source=bl&ots=62-S7gUNzN&sig=yl2_lDN6mGtvRCVkepjcXsRNQGg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=DzpEVP-qHYbBmAWkiIGQCw&ved=0CCwQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=hardwood decomposed&f=false

https://www.inkling.com/read/complete-compost-gardening-guide-pleasant/chapter-3/wood-chips-and-sawdust

(pdf) http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB8QFjAA&url=http://www.cedarcreek.umn.edu/biblio/fulltext/t1768.pdf&ei=6TlEVPuvOeHSmAWu14GICQ&usg=AFQjCNHeMlx5IqodZVJNOn7r27hNdKwGng&sig2=RJ92lN8g_y6kI3PJFNUKhQ&bvm=bv.77648437,d.dGY

 

[Cedrus]

You should research a little Hugelkultur. I haven't done it myself but I've heard that it works pretty well.

 

[Tazbud]

Hugelkultur, that is pretty cool! Some ingenious gardening innovations have developed around the globe. All to achieve similar things i guess. I think he's set on using pots this run.

 

[HayStax]

It's really probably not as "hot" as you think. Folks always think brown fallen pine needles are hot, but they loose the vast majority of there acidity in the first 30 days after falling off the tree. Tazbud is right about the nitrogen robbing not being an issue. Don't bother with NPK. that only measures immediately available nutrients, and organics and living soil don't give an F about that lol. The microbiology of that stuff is where it will benefit you most. I've used naturally decomposed material very similar for years in my garden/compost, along with much fresher material than that. Like you my initial idea was for aeration. What's good it that it aerates the soil while holding moister itself very similar to perlite. Just don't over do any amendment. That stuff makes probably the best top dressing you can find.

 

[Tazbud]

Thanks HayStax. I'm thinking it is probably pretty much inert, being so decomposed.
Was mainly wondering at any 'nutritional value' as an amendment but yeah, as aeration as well or mainly (it kinda has a similar texture to coco coir) great for the good bugs!

The soil looks very much the same colour as the wood lol:

 

[vostok]

I'd avoid using it in any dwc style system,
but this wood bits are great to rapidly decay green waste to excellent compost,
a 50/50 mix is all you need,
the bugs eat the green and the brown,
to made a fine silt, so long as its dry and warm​

 

[HayStax]

I'd avoid using it in any dwc style system,
but this wood bits are great to rapidly decay green waste to excellent compost,
a 50/50 mix is all you need,
the bugs eat the green and the brown,
to made a fine silt, so long as its dry and warm​

Definitely not DWC material, I hope no one got that impression.

 

[Tazbud]

Thanks Vostok. It's just an outdoor grow, he went with those black 10g flexi tubs and drilled many holes (fabric pots would have been my choice but these saved a few $ I guess..) It's just 4 tubs, we have about 1 1/2 tubs of the local dirt so far. It probably won't be a long enough season (i think) but trying to grow some large sativa, towards the end of the season, erecting a hoophouse over them..

I was mostly thinking it may be a bit off because nothing much seems to grow naturally from the piles or up through the piles, even where they are really only a mulch layer left on the ground.

hmmm, sounds promising though- may take my trailer up there and get a load of wood for my vegies and compost bin

 

[vostok]

I too am growing last season in the Italian Flexi Tubs, I don't think they are in the Americas yet, I first saw them being used by an old women picking up stones at the beach, and later by others for holding all types of shit from ice to fish and back, I'm testing the 40 liter and 15 liter at the moment, with grand results, tho I too drilled 100% more holes than required, and used insect mesh to prevent the ass dropping out
here are mine from last season advertising Old Toby at just over a meter in 40 liter tubs

of use to Auzzies:
http://www.southernstarseeds.net/

seeds here: http://cannabisseedsforsale.com/product-detail.aspx?Cat=Southern Star Seeds&Prod=Old Toby lol​

 

[Tazbud]

haha, lovely! Iv'e tried GG Allin & Detroit Badass lol!! they grew into (mostly) 40/50cm single oz colas with a couple of weeks veg time Nice genetics, both so strong. Iv'e never had couch lock that was actually physical incapacity! Never slept so well! A bit too indica stone & low for yield (for me) I should/will! give SSS another try one day. 'Old Toby' eh..

Yes, that's the tubs, I grew strawberries and tomatoes in some last year, hadn't thought to use them, like fabric pots, but they are a good size (42L?), easy to still move around and cheap!! (like- $4-5 iirc).

 

[smokey the cat]

So drilling a fexitub...

I only have one style - "Laidback" - (8mm)1/2" hole x 4-6 times on bottom. Am I too lazy? Don't all holes just drain the same anyway? I dunno, I've no expertise here. What goes through your heads when drilling out a container for use with this type of medium?

Damn I think these things make great looking tubs. Did the handles hold up ok to that loading?


stoner thoughts -
I've always wanted to run these tubs specifically as a stacked passive hempy-style. regular healthy soil up top in a drilled container, riding on a deep 100% (perlite?) bed held in 2nd container - water an inch deep. these things are easy enough to manhandle in off chance you need to drain some water.
Do people combine [passive root buckets] with organics at all? Seems to me it'd work ok providing crazy salts weren't left to get out of control in the lower bucket.

 

[smokey the cat]

You should research a little Hugelkultur. I haven't done it myself but I've heard that it works pretty well.

This looks totally awesome by the way. Love the ongoing decomposition fuelling the beds

 

[ButchyBoy]

I bury wood and sawdust in my compost pile along with my lawn clippings and all of the fan leafs from my girls for the veggie garden. A nice mix of greens and browns becomes some great soil for the next season. I also toss all of my left over veggies from supper in there.

For my indoor grow I use Kellogg's Organic garden soil as an amendment. This soil has a ton of forest product (wood) in it and breaks down relatively fast. I re-use all of my soil and have not purchased any in over a year. What started out as around 20 gallons of soil is now around 90 gallons of soil after being re-amended a few times.

Here is what the Kellogg's looks like..

Here is what the re-amended soil looks like 8-9 months later after it cooks..



As long as you don't get carried away you should be good.

 

[vostok]

So drilling a fexitub...

I only have one style - "Laidback" - (8mm)1/2" hole x 4-6 times on bottom. Am I too lazy? Don't all holes just drain the same anyway? I dunno, I've no expertise here. What goes through your heads when drilling out a container for use with this type of medium?

Damn I think these things make great looking tubs. Did the handles hold up ok to that loading?

stoner thoughts -
I've always wanted to run these tubs specifically as a stacked passive hempy-style. regular healthy soil up top in a drilled container, riding on a deep 100% (perlite?) bed held in 2nd container - water an inch deep. these things are easy enough to manhandle in off chance you need to drain some water.
Do people combine [passive root buckets] with organics at all? Seems to me it'd work ok providing crazy salts weren't left to get out of control in the lower bucket.

Er...Doode! ...8mm is just over a quarter inch hole,
12mm is half inch holes 25mm is 1 inch hole,

when I got these tubs, I drilled the fuck outta the base, almost like a colander
as depending on your latitude, like 45 degree to 65 degree you want that water out of that pot fast
sure I want the roots to suck some up, but not at the risk of depleting the 02 in the rootzone
as for guys at 45 up to 0, the more so, heat yes, but its a very humid heat
nothing fucks yield quicker than over watering(IMHO)
or washing out those valuable nutes,
and yes one time a month I like to flush my plants
again another reason to get rid of a lot of water at once

just saying & cheers ...lol​

 

[smokey the cat]

Er...Doode! ...8mm is just over a quarter inch hole,
12mm is half inch holes 25mm is 1 inch hole,

when I got these tubs, I drilled the fuck outta the base, almost like a colander
as depending on your latitude, like 45 degree to 65 degree you want that water out of that pot fast
sure I want the roots to suck some up, but not at the risk of depleting the 02 in the rootzone
as for guys at 45 up to 0, the more so, heat yes, but its a very humid heat
nothing fucks yield quicker than over watering(IMHO)
or washing out those valuable nutes,
and yes one time a month I like to flush my plants
again another reason to get rid of a lot of water at once

just saying & cheers ...lol​

Wow, ok that's interesting.

I'm currently growing with a tiny indoor version of "drilled out tubs" and tend to leave 8-10mm (half an inch) of water in the bottom. Heading into summer here and heat and water loss always an issue - so this is the lazy man's management. Zero actual run off as the plant drinks it dry in a couple of days. Theory that shallow water will be relatively oxygenated

Understand that in a perfect world we'd aim to get soil saturated to the max with zero runoff. How much of a negative is it to leave the lowest inch flooded do you think?




Hey Tazbud, what type of tree is that you've got there? Totally hook up a test with some in a mix for a potted flower or something - keen as to see how this works for you.

Thinking more on Hugelkultur - it hadn't occured to me how much water would go into the process of converting a giant tree trunk to humus. All those new surfaces as it breaks down and the massive amount of biomass involved - totally makes sense that this would act as a giant reservoir the top garden taps.

I have no evidence to back this up, but I reckon the stuff in this rotted pile will have a massive CEC once incorporated into an active soil - the fungi will be in max overdrive. The more worked it gets, the closer to perfect humus it will be and the more water absorbent and peat-like it will become. Awesome.

I wonder if you can help the process along. Does anyone think adding a some new biology and alternative food [matured compost innoculant and a few simple compost amendments stirred into the middle of the trunk] might help make things go better?

 

[Tazbud]

The soil tested a bit acidic, as did the chips (as best I could tell ) We'll probably make a light mix of compost and soil and just see how well it drains with some wood added and mulched (maybe some coco/ growstone as well)

Getting pretty keen to bring some woodpiles home now though

Went with 5x 1" holes in the base and a ring of (maybe 10 of) them around the sides. I wanted to polkerdot the whole enchilada with them, right up the sides and the base.. and line it with felt
Saw some square flexitub the other day, around 40l, beige colour and a bit more robust..

Eucalypt Smokey.

 

[vostok]

At all costs avoid leaving your plants with wet feet
or having the roots soak in a half inch or water
one good fungi infection will blow you outta the water
for this grow and many grows ahead as you attempt to
remove spores from your location ...
NO SHIT!!!
it also attracts unwanted bugs thirsty or hungry
if you are so concerned, avoid using so much perlite,
and add more water retaining, moss to that soil
should you have small plants or underdeveloped, its in
most cases due to overwatering
best time to water is 1630
so is recovered for the next days
onslaught​

 

[smokey the cat]

At all costs avoid leaving your plants with wet feet​

Nice. I'm trying to upgrade my whole understanding of soils 'n plants. I've run wet-feet for 3-4 years in my microcab - probably started it in response to water loss with hot lights. With poor soil, and bottled nutrients. Real crappy results too lol

Eucalypt Smokey.

Yeah nice - people seem to like it as a compost source.



Square flexitubs eh? Strewth!

the Cadillac of flexitubs

 

[PfefferGeist]

I bury wood and sawdust in my compost pile along with my lawn clippings and all of the fan leafs from my girls for the veggie garden. A nice mix of greens and browns becomes some great soil for the next season. I also toss all of my left over veggies from supper in there.

For my indoor grow I use Kellogg's Organic garden soil as an amendment. This soil has a ton of forest product (wood) in it and breaks down relatively fast. I re-use all of my soil and have not purchased any in over a year. What started out as around 20 gallons of soil is now around 90 gallons of soil after being re-amended a few times.

Here is what the Kellogg's looks like..View attachment 3278034

Here is what the re-amended soil looks like 8-9 months later after it cooks..

View attachment 3278041

As long as you don't get carried away you should be good.

This is good stuff ^^^^^^.

I have added rock dust minerals, alfalfa and kelp meal, and EWC to wood chips and applied as mulch in my pots. It turns into
black, fluffy goodness. It works wonders for water retention. The rock dust helps with acidity and the alfalfa
provides the nitrogen to jumpstart the decomposition.

I no longer use coco for my worm bins also. Just wood chips, rock dust, alfalfa and kelp meal.

Hope this helps.

-PG