Does anyone want to receive Spiritual Enlightenment?

[tyler.durden]

Another important disillusionment, the unimportance of all things.

Relative Importance. If you are building a house it is very important that you lay the foundation first, but when you realize that the construction of the house itself is not actually important then the laying of the foundation loses its significance as well. If humanity is to survive for any great length of time the vast majority of human beings on this planet will have to attain Enlightenment, they will have to Awaken to the Immortal Truth, so in this case Enlightenment is very important, but when you realize that even the survival of humanity itself is not important, again the attainment of Enlightenment loses its significance.

Importance is just another one of the many concepts in your mind, it is subjective not objective, the key to Enlightenment is to find the Balance between the subjective and the objective, between form and formless, between the world and Space.

By your logic, teaching enlightenment and/or learning enlightenment is ultimately meaningless and unimportant. You can now stop wasting your time by posting here...

 

[New Age United]

Yes it is meaningless, pointless, but only to the few, I have great news, humanity is doing well, people are much more conscious these days, we are coming to the end of our evolution.

 

[New Age United]

Are you afraid of the Truth perhaps Tyler Durden

 

[tyler.durden]

Are you afraid of the Truth perhaps Tyler Durden

I don't know, I'm not sure if I've run across it yet. Are you afraid of facts?

 

[thepenofareadywriter]

Are you afraid of the Truth perhaps Tyler Durden

why would anyone be afraid of truth...the lie is one you should fear...question...when did you stop believing in Santa clause?

 

[New Age United]

I don't know, I'm not sure if I've run across it yet. Are you afraid of facts?

I'm not afraid of the facts and I'm not afraid of being wrong, I've been wrong many times before and many times again, I am always glad to be corrected, the truth is not important but it can be very valuable. I'm not afraid of the lie either, there is no fear in me, and it could be the same for you.
When reading my words try slowing down and paying more Attention to what I am saying, it just might start making more sense to you, you just might find a truth you can be certain of. Keep in mind that I am not against you, I am not trying to defeat you.

 

[New Age United]

why would anyone be afraid of truth...the lie is one you should fear...question...when did you stop believing in Santa clause?

Someone would be afraid of the truth because it may be what is considered bad or evil, they are afraid that the truth may be an unwanted thing, such as is the case when a parent loses a child, they don't want to accept that the truth is their child is dead.They may also fear the truth because it could destroy their own beliefs, the mind, the Thinker, holds great pride in its beliefs, the truth could hurt the ego.
I was 4 or 5, I can still remember the disappointment, but the disillusionments only get harder we age, from santa Clause to the ultimate disillusionment when we have to face death.

 

[tyler.durden]

I'm not afraid of the facts and I'm not afraid of being wrong, I've been wrong many times before and many times again, I am always glad to be corrected, the truth is not important but it can be very valuable. I'm not afraid of the lie either, there is no fear in me, and it could be the same for you.

By not answering thoughtful questions and criticisms throughout this thread, it seems as if you are either afraid of or hiding from something, or your beliefs are not clear enough or strong enough to defend and explain. Take your words above, "the truth is not important but it can be very valuable." If something is valuable, it OBVIOUSLY important. Words have distinct, concrete meanings that many new age philosophies, such as yours, attempt to twist and misuse in order to obscure the critical thinking of the reader. It is obvious and easy to detect for the trained mind. Perhaps you are afraid of giving up this 'enlightened' belief system - it is often difficult for people who have invested years in specious belief systems to admit that they have wasted time on a dead end, and instead keep defending the charade in an attempt to continue fooling themselves...

When reading my words try slowing down and paying more Attention to what I am saying, it just might start making more sense to you, you just might find a truth you can be certain of.

Unless obviously for the sake of humor, whenever I post a reply, it is always through thoughtful effort after carefully considering the ideas presented. I've been through this entire thread, and you only present a few ideas reworded differently. For example, it has been asked of you to support one of your central ideas (that the truth must be intuitive) which you have yet to do, you have also been shown examples where the truth is actually counter-intuitive. You state that you agree, then revert to uttering the same tired line. You are either very confused, or you are being deceptive. Even when something you say is shown not to be true, you keep right on with the idea as if it didn't happen. That is delusional, so I can't imagine finding any certainty here...

Keep in mind that I am not against you, I am not trying to defeat you.

Of course not - we don't know each other. The only thing we know are the ideas presented. You seem to post here to spread your ideas and philosophy, I am here to attempt to verify if it is credible and in line with objective reality. So far, I have been unable to do so...

 

[thepenofareadywriter]

Someone would be afraid of the truth because it may be what is considered bad or evil, they are afraid that the truth may be an unwanted thing, such as is the case when a parent loses a child, they don't want to accept that the truth is their child is dead.They may also fear the truth because it could destroy their own beliefs, the mind, the Thinker, holds great pride in its beliefs, the truth could hurt the ego.
I was 4 or 5, I can still remember the disappointment, but the disillusionments only get harder we age, from santa Clause to the ultimate disillusionment when we have to face death.

I think that would just be bad news...but to say someone is afraid of everyday truth ummm... and I think most people are comfortable with the fact that they know that they will die one day, might not like it but it is an acceptable fact...as far as religious truth or spiritual enlightenment, will that's a whole different story, what might be truth to me might be total nonsense to someone else...

 

[New Age United]

Unless obviously for the sake of humor, whenever I post a reply, it is always through thoughtful effort after carefully considering the ideas presented. I've been through this entire thread, and you only present a few ideas reworded differently. For example, it has been asked of you to support one of your central ideas (that the truth must be intuitive) which you have yet to do, you have also been shown examples where the truth is actually counter-intuitive. You state that you agree, then revert to uttering the same tired line. You are either very confused, or you are being deceptive. Even when something you say is shown not to be true, you keep right on with the idea as if it didn't happen. That is delusional, so I can't imagine finding any certainty here...




Of course not - we don't know each other. The only thing we know are the ideas presented. You seem to post here to spread your ideas and philosophy, I am here to attempt to verify if it is credible and in line with objective reality. So far, I have been unable to do so...

Very good response. I will try to take more time and respond to questions and arguments. Before you find the truth you almost always will run in to at least one counter-intuitive, but that does not mean that the truth itself is not intuitive, I have been trying to give examples of how what was once unintuitive becomes intuitive.
Please give me an example of where one of my opinions was shown to be not true, and then we can start an official debate from there.

 

[New Age United]

I think that would just be bad news...but to say someone is afraid of everyday truth ummm... and I think most people are comfortable with the fact that they know that they will die one day, might not like it but it is an acceptable fact...as far as religious truth or spiritual enlightenment, will that's a whole different story, what might be truth to me might be total nonsense to someone else...

Have you ever lost a loved one, the bad news creates a lot of suffering, you are comfortable with the idea of death until death approaches, then it becomes a time of great fear and suffering, see you are actually avoiding the truth with simple affirmations, but one day you will have to face truth, the reality, and not just the thought of pain and death.

If it is the truth it should be understandable by the majority of human beings, just as the avg person could easily understand relativity if they had the proper instruction.

 

[New Age United]

Take your words above, "the truth is not important but it can be very valuable." If something is valuable, it OBVIOUSLY is important

You could have said that both importance and value are subjective constructs of the mind, and that would have blew this little conundrum to pieces. I use that to show people that the truth can be very useful and of relative importance, it can be very important to succeeding at anything, but remember that ultimately even success is not important. You must find the perfect balance between objective and subjective.

 

[Ceepea]

Very good response. I will try to take more time and respond to questions and arguments. Before you find the truth you almost always will run in to at least one counter-intuitive, but that does not mean that the truth itself is not intuitive,

That is the exact opposite definition of intuitive. If everything was intuitive, it'd be easy to find the truth without ever having to run across something counter-intuitive. What you're claiming doesn't even make sense. If 'truth' were always intuitive, you couldn't run into a counter-intuitive problem.

That's like saying, "while walking through a field of all red flowers, you might see blue flowers"..... well, no you won't, or it's not a field of red flowers... Much like if you encounter truths that are counter-intuitive not all truths can be intuitive.

If the truth was always intuitive you'd know the answer to everything without any external stimuli, e.g. experience.

I have been trying to give examples of how what was once unintuitive becomes intuitive.
Please give me an example of where one of my opinions was shown to be not true, and then we can start an official debate from there.

You said humans are 'coming to the end of our evolution'. That's patently false as genetic mutation never stops.

In post #366 you say that you've been wrong many times. I don't think you know what you're actually saying when you state things like 'the truth is intuitive'.....

 

[thepenofareadywriter]

Have you ever lost a loved one, the bad news creates a lot of suffering, you are comfortable with the idea of death until death approaches, then it becomes a time of great fear and suffering, see you are actually avoiding the truth with simple affirmations, but one day you will have to face truth, the reality, and not just the thought of pain and death.

If it is the truth it should be understandable by the majority of human beings, just as the avg person could easily understand relativity if they had the proper instruction.

I

Have you ever lost a loved one, the bad news creates a lot of suffering, you are comfortable with the idea of death until death approaches, then it becomes a time of great fear and suffering, see you are actually avoiding the truth with simple affirmations, but one day you will have to face truth, the reality, and not just the thought of pain and death.

If it is the truth it should be understandable by the majority of human beings, just as the avg person could easily understand relativity if they had the proper instruction.

I am 63 years old, so yes I have lost many...and seen much misery...but the older I get the clearer life becomes...I would not want to die today, nor in the near future, because I do enjoy life as it is...but fear death, nope...not me and I am sure many people feel the same as I do, it is just a part of life, death will come and shit happens

 

[New Age United]

I

I am 63 years old, so yes I have lost many...and seen much misery...but the older I get the clearer life becomes...I would not want to die today, nor in the near future, because I do enjoy life as it is...but fear death, nope...not me and I am sure many people feel the same as I do, it is just a part of life, death will come and shit happens

You may already be Enlightened. Let not the focus be on being enlightened, that can lead to a false perspective of self, ego. Let the focus be 90 the state 90 being which is enlightenment.

 

[New Age United]

If the truth was always intuitive you'd know the answer to everything without any external stimuli, ie experience

Genius

There is still a deep truth in every truth being both counter-intuitive and intuitive, it is a paradox, I have yet to explain this by deduction.

Can you tell me how you Know that genetic mutation will never stop.

 

[tyler.durden]

Genius

There is still a deep truth in every truth being both counter-intuitive and intuitive, it is a paradox, I have yet to explain this by deduction.

There is a deep truth within every truth? This makes no sense to me. Kindly explain that statement. "'There is a deep blue in every blue". Well, duh. Of course, it's blue, after all! Also, there are some truths that are simply intuitive without being counter-intuitive, and some that are counter-intuitive without being intuitive. So, we can see that your statement above that all truths are always both intuitive and counter-intuitive is obviously incorrect...

Can you tell me how you Know that genetic mutation will never stop.

This question shows that you know very little about evolution by natural selection (EBNS). Genetic mutation is not only a integral part of the gene copying process, but it occurs with highly-predictable frequency. This process of mutation, which is the adding of new genetic material onto the existing genetic material, is why there is such vast variety of life on this planet and why it is always evolving. From Wiki - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution

Mutation
Further information: Mutation

Duplication of part of a chromosome.
Mutations are changes in the DNA sequence of a cell's genome. When mutations occur, they can either have no effect, alter the product of a gene, or prevent the gene from functioning. Based on studies in the fly Drosophila melanogaster, it has been suggested that if a mutation changes a protein produced by a gene, this will probably be harmful, with about 70% of these mutations having damaging effects, and the remainder being either neutral or weakly beneficial.[72]

Mutations can involve large sections of a chromosome becoming duplicated (usually by genetic recombination), which can introduce extra copies of a gene into a genome.[73] Extra copies of genes are a major source of the raw material needed for new genes to evolve.[74] This is important because most new genes evolve within gene families from pre-existing genes that share common ancestors.[75] For example, the human eye uses four genes to make structures that sense light: three for colour vision and one for night vision; all four are descended from a single ancestral gene.[76]

New genes can be generated from an ancestral gene when a duplicate copy mutates and acquires a new function. This process is easier once a gene has been duplicated because it increases the redundancy of the system; one gene in the pair can acquire a new function while the other copy continues to perform its original function.[77][78] Other types of mutations can even generate entirely new genes from previously noncoding DNA.[79][80]

The generation of new genes can also involve small parts of several genes being duplicated, with these fragments then recombining to form new combinations with new functions.[81][82] When new genes are assembled from shuffling pre-existing parts, domains act as modules with simple independent functions, which can be mixed together to produce new combinations with new and complex functions.[83] For example, polyketide synthases are large enzymes that make antibiotics; they contain up to one hundred independent domains that each catalyse one step in the overall process, like a step in an assembly line.[84]

 

[New Age United]

There is a deep truth within every truth? This makes no sense to me. Kindly explain that statement. "'There is a deep blue in every blue". Well, duh. Of course, it's blue, after all! Also, there are some truths that are simply intuitive without being counter-intuitive, and some that are counter-intuitive without being intuitive. So, we can see that your statement above that all truths are always both intuitive and counter-intuitive is obviously incorrect...



This question shows that you know very little about evolution by natural selection (EBNS). Genetic mutation is not only a integral part of the gene copying process, but it occurs with highly-predictable frequency. This process of mutation, which is the adding of new genetic material onto the existing genetic material, is why there is such vast variety of life on this planet and why it is always evolving. From Wiki - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution

Mutation
Further information: Mutation

Duplication of part of a chromosome.
Mutations are changes in the DNA sequence of a cell's genome. When mutations occur, they can either have no effect, alter the product of a gene, or prevent the gene from functioning. Based on studies in the fly Drosophila melanogaster, it has been suggested that if a mutation changes a protein produced by a gene, this will probably be harmful, with about 70% of these mutations having damaging effects, and the remainder being either neutral or weakly beneficial.[72]

Mutations can involve large sections of a chromosome becoming duplicated (usually by genetic recombination), which can introduce extra copies of a gene into a genome.[73] Extra copies of genes are a major source of the raw material needed for new genes to evolve.[74] This is important because most new genes evolve within gene families from pre-existing genes that share common ancestors.[75] For example, the human eye uses four genes to make structures that sense light: three for colour vision and one for night vision; all four are descended from a single ancestral gene.[76]

New genes can be generated from an ancestral gene when a duplicate copy mutates and acquires a new function. This process is easier once a gene has been duplicated because it increases the redundancy of the system; one gene in the pair can acquire a new function while the other copy continues to perform its original function.[77][78] Other types of mutations can even generate entirely new genes from previously noncoding DNA.[79][80]

The generation of new genes can also involve small parts of several genes being duplicated, with these fragments then recombining to form new combinations with new functions.[81][82] When new genes are assembled from shuffling pre-existing parts, domains act as modules with simple independent functions, which can be mixed together to produce new combinations with new and complex functions.[83] For example, polyketide synthases are large enzymes that make antibiotics; they contain up to one hundred independent domains that each catalyse one step in the overall process, like a step in an assembly line.[84]

Words are such tiny things, they are only pointers to a much deeper Truth.

Can you give me an example of a truth which is counter-intuitive but not intuitive?

Very good read but still this does not explain to me how the process of evolution will not one day stop. Did you ever conceive of a perfection that natural selection is trying to attain?

 

[New Age United]

For instance, how do either of you know that the universe will not come to an end completely.

 

[Ceepea]

Words are such tiny things, they are only pointers to a much deeper Truth.

Can you give me an example of a truth which is counter-intuitive but not intuitive?

Very good read but still this does not explain to me how the process of evolution will not one day stop. Did you ever conceive of a perfection that natural selection is trying to attain?

Natural selection can't attempt anything because it's not sentient. Natural selection favours mutations that increase survivability.... or whatever the driving mechanism of the environment is.

Evolution won'y stop because genetic mutation won't stop. Evolution doesn't always benefit, it can be a detriment too.

For instance, how do either of you know that the universe will not come to an end completely.

We don't. No one does.

Evolution will stop if all life on the planet ceases to exist. But as long as the type of life that we know exists, exists; cells will replicate, and mutations will occur.