redeyedfrog
Well-Known Member
Ok a broader definition would apply here, and I mean detailed lol
The real racists.
- Thread starter desert dude
- Start date
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
seriously though, we have one member who refers to phillipe rushton as a "respected academic". there are sparingly few rules here.
ChesusRice
Well-Known Member
AA is a cult with less than 5% success rate
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
better than a 0% or 1% success rate though, i suppose.
we actually did end up regretting trolling that site for the most part. some were judgmental bible smashers, but plenty of members tried to reframe the "being greater than yourself" as whatever you wanted to believe in.
i played the role of a recovering yet impotent addict who was in a homosexual relationship with his black mentor, and my mentor was pushing me to smoke medical cannabis or drink again to achieve an erection. i may have even hinted at being in a few porn flicks as a child under my parents' direction so that they could afford their fix.
HAVE A BLESSED XAY!!!!!!11!
ChesusRice
Well-Known Member
That higher power can be anything is bullshit until they get you to come around to god
My quick query said somewhere between 2(ish) and 7.
Seems to be some controversy there, but I'm not a "quitter" so I declined to look further.
You seem more mellow of late - its actually enjoyable to participate/view a good debate sans the childish insults some need to dispense.
Kudos.
Seems to be some controversy there, but I'm not a "quitter" so I declined to look further.
You seem more mellow of late - its actually enjoyable to participate/view a good debate sans the childish insults some need to dispense.
Kudos.
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
redeyedfrog
Well-Known Member
Really? Because my field of specialty was as a drug and alcohol counsellor and your stats are way out, the first attempt is 0% to 5 and it jumps up to 20% after a couple of goes at it. They have no affiliation with any religious organisation nor do they accept donations from anyone but members nor do they accept any publicity or endorsements.
I'm pretty sure you aren't aware of the deeds they do but that's one organisation that should be hands off.
Out of every group on this planet they are amongst the ones that deserve it least, they actually are a altruistic organisation.
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
i didn't post the stats, that was just my story of trolling.
redeyedfrog
Well-Known Member
Tha
ts cool but they are decent folk that don't get anything out of it except the joy of helping others, now go persecute some right wingers lol
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
believe me, i will.
a small part of me wants to believe they had fun when we were trolling them.
ChesusRice
Well-Known Member
redeyedfrog
Well-Known Member
W
Because I've had many dealings with them and been to literally hundreds of meetings and never thought of them as a cult, I am certainly open to another point of view.
When you call them a cult, please explain in what context you are using.
Because I've had many dealings with them and been to literally hundreds of meetings and never thought of them as a cult, I am certainly open to another point of view.
redeyedfrog
Well-Known Member
I get that some folks can percieve it as a cult being on the outside looking in but I have to disagree with that theory. For one you don't live in A.A. 2, they don't ask for your money or make you raise cash, they only ask for enough to pay for literature and coffee.
3, you leave whenever you like and it's of your own will with no consequences 4, they do not sell things, market anything or take outside donations 5, sporting stars and celebs are discouraged from promoting AA (I personally worked with darryl strawberry in his recovery and he was told not to mention AA) and 6 AA does not make you follow any rules they are simply suggestions and you are not judged by the group for falling away. And it is not connected with any religion whatsoever, a higher power is whatever you want it to be. And last but not least AA has no leader which is vital to a cult, no organisation, no hierarchy, no power, and no funding, nor will it ever seek it.
The 12 steps are a series of suggestions aimed at making people realise their actions not only destroyed their lives but others lives around them.
It is aimed at making them accountable and to realise they are responsible for all of their own actions and to make amends wherever possible for all their transgressions in their lives despite the consequences. It's a path that is walked of self discovery and personal growth, self honesty, accountability and their own road to enlightenment. I can't agree any of that equals a cult.
3, you leave whenever you like and it's of your own will with no consequences 4, they do not sell things, market anything or take outside donations 5, sporting stars and celebs are discouraged from promoting AA (I personally worked with darryl strawberry in his recovery and he was told not to mention AA) and 6 AA does not make you follow any rules they are simply suggestions and you are not judged by the group for falling away. And it is not connected with any religion whatsoever, a higher power is whatever you want it to be. And last but not least AA has no leader which is vital to a cult, no organisation, no hierarchy, no power, and no funding, nor will it ever seek it.
The 12 steps are a series of suggestions aimed at making people realise their actions not only destroyed their lives but others lives around them.
It is aimed at making them accountable and to realise they are responsible for all of their own actions and to make amends wherever possible for all their transgressions in their lives despite the consequences. It's a path that is walked of self discovery and personal growth, self honesty, accountability and their own road to enlightenment. I can't agree any of that equals a cult.
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redeyedfrog
Well-Known Member
AA is nonprofessional – it doesn't have clinics, doctors, counsellors or psychologists. All members are themselves recovering from alcoholism. There is no central authority controlling how AA groups operate. It is up to the members of each group to decide what they do. However, the AA program of recovery has proved to be so successful that almost every group follows it in very similar ways.
AA is not a religious organisation nor is it affiliated with any religious body. It welcomes members of all religions, agnostics and atheists alike. You don't have to sign up or achieve anything to be a member. You're a member of a group if you choose to be. You can come and go as you please. No one is "in charge" of a group. We work through the offer of help and suggestion only. No one can tell you what you should or shouldn't do.
AA works through members telling their stories of what we used to be like, what happened and what we are like now. The AA program, known as The Twelve Steps, provides a framework for self-examination and a road to recovery, free of alcohol.
AA is not a religious organisation nor is it affiliated with any religious body. It welcomes members of all religions, agnostics and atheists alike. You don't have to sign up or achieve anything to be a member. You're a member of a group if you choose to be. You can come and go as you please. No one is "in charge" of a group. We work through the offer of help and suggestion only. No one can tell you what you should or shouldn't do.
AA works through members telling their stories of what we used to be like, what happened and what we are like now. The AA program, known as The Twelve Steps, provides a framework for self-examination and a road to recovery, free of alcohol.
ChesusRice
Well-Known Member
And 6
The group is the leader, it is a religous cult. COurts have said so. It sprang from a prayer group.
As to it's effecasy. It has a worse record of sobriety than people who just quit without help. I cant see it as personal growth since the main tenet is to give up you and submit to the group will.
And why are their so many bibles in the mnetting place if it is not a church?
And why would you OUT Darryl Strawberry like that?
redeyedfrog
Well-Known Member
I'm not a member of AA and his addiction issues are very very public, (just google it) it's no secret. You do not submit your will to the group you submit to your higher power and if that's the group so be it, I seriously doubt you know anything about AA at all to be honest, and most of your opinions seemed to be based on google searches than anything else, it seems I know more about it than you do, not being a dick but just saying. I've seen people's lives change through AA and their families lives change through alanon.
The success rate is not that much different than residential rehab, it's those who are ready to change that are successful not those that are forced to go.
The change in those that embrace the twelve steps is nothing short of miraculous and here you are calling them a cult and trolling them, sorry but that's just not the right thing to do man, much respect to the members of AA and their families and my apologies for any harm caused by misinformed people.
The success rate is not that much different than residential rehab, it's those who are ready to change that are successful not those that are forced to go.
The change in those that embrace the twelve steps is nothing short of miraculous and here you are calling them a cult and trolling them, sorry but that's just not the right thing to do man, much respect to the members of AA and their families and my apologies for any harm caused by misinformed people.
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ChesusRice
Well-Known Member
If you go thru rehab
You are forced to go. I never trolled AA. I have been thru AA. It's a religous organization. Started from a prayer group. Dr. Bob never stopped drinking. AA is a cult. And courts have ruled it is a religous organization.
You're in denial
ChesusRice
Well-Known Member
Next, the high-level courts addressed the third part of the test. They took a long look at the Big Book and its 200 references to God; a look at the Twelve Steps and their unmistakable references to God; the prayers in A.A. meetings; and based on a full examination of these, ruled that AA doctrines and practices must be viewed as religious. Because multiple high-level courts have ruled uniformly on this matter, these rulings now constitute “clearly established law” in the US. Here’s what one of these courts, the New York Court of Appeals, in the case of Griffin v. Coughlin,had to say about the matter:
A fair reading of the fundamental A.A. doctrinal writings discloses that their dominant theme is unequivocally religious.
Indeed, the A.A. basic literature most reasonably would be characterized as reflecting the traditional elements common to most theistic religions. Thus, God is named or referred to in five of the 12 steps. “Working” the 12 steps includes confessing to God the “nature of our wrongs” (Step 5), appealing to God “to remove our shortcomings” (Step 7) and seeking “through prayer and meditation” to make “contact” with God and achieve “knowledge of His Will” (Step 11).
While A.A. literature declares an openness and tolerance for each participant’s personal vision of God “as we understood Him” (Steps 3 and 11), the writings demonstrably express an aspiration that each member of the movement will ultimately commit to a belief in the existence of a Supreme Being of independent higher reality than humankind.
All of the meetings ended with the Lord’s Prayer, which is a specifically Christian prayer. In addition, those attending the meetings were strongly encouraged to pray.
The foregoing demonstrates beyond peradventure that doctrinally and as actually practiced in the 12-step methodology, adherence to the A.A. fellowship entails engagement in religious activity and religious proselytization. Followers are urged to accept the existence of God as a Supreme Being, Creator, Father of Light and Spirit of the Universe. In “working” the 12 steps, participants become actively involved in seeking such a God through prayer, confessing wrongs and asking for removal of shortcomings. These expressions and practices constitute, as a matter of law, religious exercise.
Thus, while it is of course true that the primary objective of A.A. is to enable its adherents to achieve sobriety, its doctrine unmistakably urges that the path to staying sober and to becoming “happily and usefully whole,” is by wholeheartedly embracing traditional theistic belief.
A fair reading of the fundamental A.A. doctrinal writings discloses that their dominant theme is unequivocally religious.
Indeed, the A.A. basic literature most reasonably would be characterized as reflecting the traditional elements common to most theistic religions. Thus, God is named or referred to in five of the 12 steps. “Working” the 12 steps includes confessing to God the “nature of our wrongs” (Step 5), appealing to God “to remove our shortcomings” (Step 7) and seeking “through prayer and meditation” to make “contact” with God and achieve “knowledge of His Will” (Step 11).
While A.A. literature declares an openness and tolerance for each participant’s personal vision of God “as we understood Him” (Steps 3 and 11), the writings demonstrably express an aspiration that each member of the movement will ultimately commit to a belief in the existence of a Supreme Being of independent higher reality than humankind.
All of the meetings ended with the Lord’s Prayer, which is a specifically Christian prayer. In addition, those attending the meetings were strongly encouraged to pray.
The foregoing demonstrates beyond peradventure that doctrinally and as actually practiced in the 12-step methodology, adherence to the A.A. fellowship entails engagement in religious activity and religious proselytization. Followers are urged to accept the existence of God as a Supreme Being, Creator, Father of Light and Spirit of the Universe. In “working” the 12 steps, participants become actively involved in seeking such a God through prayer, confessing wrongs and asking for removal of shortcomings. These expressions and practices constitute, as a matter of law, religious exercise.
Thus, while it is of course true that the primary objective of A.A. is to enable its adherents to achieve sobriety, its doctrine unmistakably urges that the path to staying sober and to becoming “happily and usefully whole,” is by wholeheartedly embracing traditional theistic belief.