Compost tea, pros needed!

[st0wandgrow]

ive never had that

touchy on the subject are we? your very egotistical, and whatever works for me is what im gonna do. Get over it

You bash me because i say "subcool" supersoil. Save your comments for someone who gives a fuck. I wasnt talking to you in the first place.

I'm the touchy one eh?

Stick with watching weed nerd videos skippy.

 

[MachiavellI420]

I'm the touchy one eh?

Stick with watching weed nerd videos skippy.

i never mentioned a weed nerd video?

 

[NoSwagBag]

I used a tea recipe similar to one on the compost junkie website. I'm by no means an expert on tea, but the website made it easy for a tea beginner like myself to understand aact. As for supersoil, I know people that have had luck with subcools mix, but I chose another easier mix thought up by VIC HIGH. Outstanding results, and cheaper than subbies to make.

 

[SJ KOrganic]

despite the hostility i've actually learned a lot here. The reason i use "subs" super soil is because its "EASY" to buy the TGA pre mixed soil and mix it with your buffer, in my case was 10x 1.5 cu ft. bags of roots organic, mix it, let it sit for a month, use it, recycle it. And it works! Ive seen and produced crazy results. The reason being, ive tried the manual nutes method before, and failed miserably, at least this way i can produce an awesome product, get the equipment paid for, then i am free to experiment as i wish! For now im just looking for a little kick in the soil to continue the uptake of whats been mixed into the soil itself via the "sub cool" method.

 

[smokey the cat]

Buildasoil has a nice blog post on Sub's soil. http://buildasoil.com/blogs/news/12533881-whats-so-cool-about-super-soil-the-super-soil-recipe-breakdown

I'm just going to post it here in its entirety as its very pertinent to the thread and will help explain for you where some of the harder core organic growers are coming from

What's So Cool About Super Soil? The Super Soil Recipe Breakdown. February 26 2014, 14 Comments
If you have been reading about cultivating indoors with organic soil then you've heard of SubCool's Super Soil. I admit to starting with this mix and thought I was really doing something special when I first went for it. I bought all the stuff and was really excited to use it.

My results were actually pretty good, but I've since moved on I think you should too.

Besides the "base soil" being purchased instead of made from scratch, I have many other issues. All in all, taking bagged soil and adding worm castings and nutrients isn't a bad idea, but it can be improved upon and money can be saved.

Here is the Recipe: 8 large bags of a high-quality organic potting soil with coco fiber and mycorrhizae (i.e., your base soil) 25 to 50 lbs of organic worm castings 5 lbs steamed bone meal 5 lbs Bloom bat guano 5 lbs blood meal 3 lbs rock phosphate ¾ cup Epson salts ½ cup sweet lime (dolomite) ½ cup azomite (trace elements) 2 tbsp powdered humic acid

Now I'll go through each item:

1. Bagged soil - WHY? when we are going to the trouble to mix all of this up anyways, me might as well save some money and increase the quality. The other factor here is having exact control over the inputs. These soils already have unknown quantities of nutrients and the quality control isn't perfect, what if you get a hot batch and then further amend it? I would avoid the potential room for problems and make a soil using many standard recipes but most go with 1 part peat, 1 part compost and 1 part aeration.
   
   
2. Mycorrhizae: Adding this to your soil doesn't make sense and is a waste of resources. Anyone who works with mycorrhizae will tell you to apply to the rootzone at transplant or seedling stage. Obviously this super soil mix is for the bottom of the container and nowhere near the rootzone at the proper time. Basically just a complete waste of Myco.
   
   
3. 25 to 50 lbs of organic worm castings: I agree with using wormcastings but that is a WIDE range to apply. Why 25 - 50? I think that when building your base mix you should be factoring in a certain percentage of castings and compost. Not adding to this all later on in a made up way.
   
   
4. 5 lbs steamed bone meal - This is a by-product from the Cattle industry and is really not a good input for organic soil production. Fish bone meal however is great for this same purpose and is safer to use.
   
   
5. 5 lbs Bloom bat guano - Guano is very expensive and really not neccessary. This is a fast release nutrient and is more in line with the feed the plant regimen instead of soil building. That and harvesting guano is rarely safe and sustainable, there are many reasons to avoid this.... Plus the Fish bone meal that we just mentioned has you covered already along with all the other plant based amendments and worm castings that you should be using.
   
   
6. 5 lbs blood meal - More slaughterhouse waste and sure to be unclean. Why use the blood from McDonalds cows when you can add nitrogen so easily through alfalfa meal, fish meal and or worm castings.
   
   
7. 3 lbs rock phosphate - This is the 3rd phosphate product and it makes sense because in a soil this rich and without the mycorrhizae actually working like it should there isn't going to be a very good way to access P. That's okay, in a properly built soil you don't need a million sources of P, the plants will get it and the biology and fungi will make sure of it. Not only that but soft rock phosphate is high in heavy metals like cadmium that are proven to be harmful. When growing cannabis, the trichomes will store the heavy metals and smoking the plant will not allow the typical body safety system of passing through the liver etc. before going into your blood. For this reason materials high in heavy metals are typically avoided.
   
   
8. ¾ cup Epsom salts - Absolutely no reason to add more magnesium sulfate to a good soil mix. A little known fact about soil is that the Calcium to Magmesium Ratio will control the texture of the soil and adding epsom salts is a good way to tighten the soil and there are better ways to get sulfur, like gypsum.
   
   
9. ½ cup sweet lime (dolomite) - Dolomite lime should be avoided as it is completely out of balance with the proper Calcium to magnesium ratios for proper soil building. Especially when considering long term no-till soil use.
   
   
10. ½ cup azomite (trace elements) - This is good stuff and is just a "brand" name rock dust that has all the elements from A-Z hence Azomite.... thing is, that also includes heavy metals. While I'd use this in the veggie garden, many will avoid this in the medicine garden.
    
    
11. 2 tbsp powdered humic acid - Good advice but humic acid typically purchased at the grow shop is from leanordite and isn't really helpful and is very expensive. Avoid this and get Ful-Power from Bio-ag and use it with waterings.

So then after all this work. You mix this up and let it sit for 30 days. Then use this in the BOTTOM of your soil container. What is interesting is that all though this makes sense at first glance... it's all way off. Nature doesn't have all the nutrients on the bottom in fact it's the opposite, all the plants in nature have the nutrients on the top. That is why building a soil, using mulch and topdressing work so well. It's things like this that make the real organic gardners and farmers laugh at all of us sometimes.

So if you've been using super soil, don't feel bad, I think we all did at some point and I owe Subcool a lot because he actually got this semi-organic mix discussed enough that the mainstream took notice... that alone was helpful at getting me to where I am today.

I hope this article helps!

^^^ hope you found this interesting

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Onto aerated compost tea:

They are entirely harmless if made with decent compost and a little molasses - you can water with it as much as you like and do absolutely no harm.
If you've got a plant and/or pot of soil that's less than perfect ACT may well help things out. This sounds like you - so I'd definitely give it a go.

 

[SJ KOrganic]

Buildasoil has a nice blog post on Sub's soil. http://buildasoil.com/blogs/news/12533881-whats-so-cool-about-super-soil-the-super-soil-recipe-breakdown

I'm just going to post it here in its entirety as its very pertinent to the thread and will help explain for you where some of the harder core organic growers are coming from



^^^ hope you found this interesting

----------



Onto aerated compost tea:

They are entirely harmless if made with decent compost and a little molasses - you can water with it as much as you like and do absolutely no harm.
If you've got a plant and/or pot of soil that's less than perfect ACT may well help things out. This sounds like you - so I'd definitely give it a go.

Very interesting. You have my attention. Is this a system that you use? A "live" soil? I am just confused where to start really. If i wanted to say, do a side-by-side, where to start? What is a popular recipe/mix for BOS? Can you use this soil from veg to flower like super soil? I am trying to find more information on this.



Few questions left on the Tea. 1st question being, i use RO water, do i need to aerate it for a certain period of time or is the chlorine already removed by the RO filter and 2nd, i was lead onto Sugar Daddy 0-0-0 by Technaflora....This bottle was 20 bucks, i probably made a bad decision....but can i use that in the tea? I was under the impression it was molasses....but no where on the bottle does it say. It says, derived from magnesium sulfate, contains magnesium water soluble and sulfer with 2% cane sugar. Did i blow 20 bucks or is this usable? If not usable, recommended black strap molasses?

 

[Flagg420]

unsulphered blackstrap molasses, n its dirt cheap, so cheap it wont hurt so bad spending on the bottle of sugar water+epsom salt.

and one of the 3 main reasons to filter with a 3-4 stage RO filter... is to get the chlorine out, RO water is good, ust often needs to be buffered to 150-300ppm w/ some calmag+

 

[SJ KOrganic]

unsulphered blackstrap molasses, n its dirt cheap, so cheap it wont hurt so bad spending on the bottle of sugar water+epsom salt.

and one of the 3 main reasons to filter with a 3-4 stage RO filter... is to get the chlorine out, RO water is good, ust often needs to be buffered to 150-300ppm w/ some calmag+

Is this something i have to likely get from the local hydro shop or do certain stores carry it like home depot walmart menards, ect?

 

[st0wandgrow]

Very interesting. You have my attention. Is this a system that you use? A "live" soil? I am just confused where to start really. If i wanted to say, do a side-by-side, where to start? What is a popular recipe/mix for BOS? Can you use this soil from veg to flower like super soil? I am trying to find more information on this.



Few questions left on the Tea. 1st question being, i use RO water, do i need to aerate it for a certain period of time or is the chlorine already removed by the RO filter and 2nd, i was lead onto Sugar Daddy 0-0-0 by Technaflora....This bottle was 20 bucks, i probably made a bad decision....but can i use that in the tea? I was under the impression it was molasses....but no where on the bottle does it say. It says, derived from magnesium sulfate, contains magnesium water soluble and sulfer with 2% cane sugar. Did i blow 20 bucks or is this usable? If not usable, recommended black strap molasses?

The "Coot" mix is one that a lot of us use here

 

[st0wandgrow]

Is this something i have to likely get from the local hydro shop or do certain stores carry it like home depot walmart menards, ect?

Most any grocery store will carry unsulphered blackstrap molases.

this is what I use:

http://www.vitacost.com/plantation-unsulphured-blackstrap-molasses-15-fl-oz?csrc=GPF-PA-Food & Beverages-070258024035&ci_gpa=pla&ci_kw=&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=070258024035&gclid=CM603u7djMICFaVDMgodG2sANQ

 

[SJ KOrganic]

The "Coot" mix is one that a lot of us use here

And in this mix, do you give it any additional nutes throughout its grow? Teas? What is your average yield per plant?

 

[smokey the cat]

And in this mix, do you give it any additional nutes throughout its grow? Teas? What is your average yield per plant?

Take a gander at the no-till thread at the top of the forum. There are a million ways to skin this cat, and a lot of them are talked about in that thread.

I think Sugar Daddy might just be watered down maple syrup (and maybe molasses?) - the only detail I've found about what's in it is the maple scent of the liquid described in the MSDS.
The technaflora website talks about it making more nitrogen available late in flower, which fits with what happens when you feed a pot plant a carbohydrate source - grows a few more soil microbes which lets the plant eat slightly better.


re Calmag - if you are running Sub super soil you wont be short of magnesium.

 

[SJ KOrganic]

Well here is the Analysis. Can this still be used? I ended up getting Plantation Blackstrap but i hate wasting money and i know i cannot return or sell it . Also, my friend uses Root Exel/Rapid start in his teas, im not sure if its just for veging, is there a benefit there aswell?

 

[smokey the cat]

Thanks for posting the image, more information than appears on their website, lol.


Mate, it'll be absolutely fine, I'd just suggest at $20 it is overpriced compared to the cost of raw ingredients. It says partly derived from magnesium sulfate - MgSO4. So it's probably a carb source (cane sugar = molasses) with a little epsom salts http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium_sulfate

Sugar Daddy sure is a great product name though. Just keep in mind that you'll be adding another magnesium source to your soil, dunno how strong this nute is sorry.

If I understand things the SO4 breaks off and forms H2SO4 (sufuric acid) which then break down other foods in the soil. Without enough sulfur apparently you end up with other foods stocks stuck in the soil and being unable to be broken down - Clackamas Coot would always laugh about ttypical weed growers going on about their calmag when the issue was lack of sulfur.
[no till threads always have heaps of dudes making jokes about their needing more calmags and dolomites]

In no-till a good sulfur source is gypsum (CaSO4·2H2O - calcium sulfate dihydrate) - gives you calcium and sulfur and doesn't change your ph. Neem meal also has a decent amount of sulfur. And despite the name, there is plenty of sulphur in unsulphured black molasses.

Plantain blackstrap sounds cool; probably will be functionally identical. Unlikely to make your stank taste like banana, lol

 

[SJ KOrganic]

Well for my first tea i took some ideas from everyone and got a basic tea to come out to 7.0ph and 400ppm. It consisted of 5 gallons of RO water, 1 Tsp great white shark mycorrhizae, 3 tsp bat guano high P, 1 tbsp kelp meal, 4 tablespoon blackstrap molasses, brewed for 36 hours.

 

[SJ KOrganic]

I was going to add EWC in too but i didnt have a way to make a "Tea bag" so i used a light amount of Bat guano and just strained it. Will be ordering one soon and plan to brew for 48 hours. I read that bubbles and foam or a good sign ha? What worries me is when something goes "anemic". Does this mean it isnt getting aerated enough? I guess i am wondering what the signs of this are. Sorry, i am an over worrier haha, i blame the anxiety.

 

[st0wandgrow]

Well for my first tea i took some ideas from everyone and got a basic tea to come out to 7.0ph and 400ppm. It consisted of 5 gallons of RO water, 1 Tsp great white shark mycorrhizae, 3 tsp bat guano high P, 1 tbsp kelp meal, 4 tablespoon blackstrap molasses, brewed for 36 hours.

Couple things here. Don't add mycorrhizal fungi to a brew. That needs to be applied directly to your root zone when you transplant. Also, 4 tablespoons of molasses is a lot to add. I go with about a tsp per gallon of water.

I was going to add EWC in too but i didnt have a way to make a "Tea bag" so i used a light amount of Bat guano and just strained it. Will be ordering one soon and plan to brew for 48 hours. I read that bubbles and foam or a good sign ha? What worries me is when something goes "anemic". Does this mean it isnt getting aerated enough? I guess i am wondering what the signs of this are. Sorry, i am an over worrier haha, i blame the anxiety.

There are a few different types of teas you can brew. If you want to inoculate your medium with microbes you will brew a compost tea. This can/should be as simple as dechlorinated water, worm castings, and molasses. That's it. Your goal is to multiply microbes in this brew, and anything that you add to this tea should assist you in that goal. So, stuff that is added (kelp, bat poop, etc) should be treated as a food stock for the microbes. We know that molasses is a great food stock and is all that is needed. Unless you have a high powered microscope you are somewhat playing a guessing game as to wether these other ingredients are effective, and at what proportions they are effective at. Brew time here is 24-48 hours, with 36 hours being peak microbial population (according to MM).

The other common brew is a nutrient tea. This is more along the lines of traditional "nutrients" that can feed the plant and/or the microbes in the soil. There is no source of compost/worm poop in this brew, so we are strictly focused on how this will benefit the plant and the medium. You can add your meals and guanos to this tea. Brew time for this can be 12-24 hours.

 

[Flagg420]

yea, fungi and bacteria, apply seperately...

For tea bags, go to ur local hardware store, paint store, hardware section @ walmart, whatever, and pickk up some paint strainer bags..... (they work great for small batch homebrewing too!)

The EWC is like 96% of all the bacterias you need, (just like yeast when brewing) all you do, is give them food, and growth conditions. (Lotsa air... lots. The amount of molasses u got in here is prolly a lot, but.... I wont say to back it down.

I suggest starting with just EWC Tea for now, maybe adding compost if u have access, and continue feeding your normal nutrients like any other grow, just add this to it. Work from there. Nute teas is a big hole you fall into, and will eventually force you to do a LOT of self education. Its probably the best way in the end, but its not for beginners.... or semi-beginners, lol. If ur not ready to start custom building your NPK values, and buffering with this dust, that liquid, blah blah blah.... Keep it simple.... EWC/Compost teas are super easy, water+sugar+air+C/EWC let er bubble for a day or 2....

 

[SJ KOrganic]

In other words, stop listening to local hydro store guy because he doesn't know shit? Got it! Well, is there any where i can use this mycorrizae (great white shark) being that it was well, $40. I will stop spending my money and start listening. That is always a good start. As for the tea, i guess with my heavily amended super soil that i use, im looking for a "kick", or boost if you would. So maybe a nutrient tea is what i am after? It seems like this soil does good, but the fact that he only yields 2-3oz per plant concerns me in a way that i think they can produce more, and better. Obviously as a beginner, i am going to follow someone that has showed me proof of end product, at it is the tastiest shit ive ever had in my life! Experience means nothing with street weed when you smoke straight indoor from a grower, whole new book there. It just seems as if subs "supersoil" doesnt really...well...give it enough of what it needs to thrive. The fact that every strain is different is understood, but with this strain i think it can uptake more nutes then the soil is providing. I will get some pictures soon, on day 25, they dont look far enough long. Lacking, in other words.

 

[MachiavellI420]

In other words, stop listening to local hydro store guy because he doesn't know shit? Got it! Well, is there any where i can use this mycorrizae (great white shark) being that it was well, $40. I will stop spending my money and start listening. That is always a good start. As for the tea, i guess with my heavily amended super soil that i use, im looking for a "kick", or boost if you would. So maybe a nutrient tea is what i am after? It seems like this soil does good, but the fact that he only yields 2-3oz per plant concerns me in a way that i think they can produce more, and better. Obviously as a beginner, i am going to follow someone that has showed me proof of end product, at it is the tastiest shit ive ever had in my life! Experience means nothing with street weed when you smoke straight indoor from a grower, whole new book there. It just seems as if subs "supersoil" doesnt really...well...give it enough of what it needs to thrive. The fact that every strain is different is understood, but with this strain i think it can uptake more nutes then the soil is providing. I will get some pictures soon, on day 25, they dont look far enough long. Lacking, in other words.

even a compost/EWC tea will boost your microbes therefore increasing uptakeable nutes from your super soil. Thats all a supersoil really needs is a steady colony of microbes and your golden.