The Bonafide Dr/Pt Relationship- Pitfalls to Avoid in Certifications
- Thread starter Dr. Bob
- Start date
TheMan13
Well-Known Member
Damn, I thought you were only teaching us unwashed peasants law and medical procedure from that pedestal, but English composition as well? Oh joy! How many years of imprisonment should I expect for all these run on sentences, and what will the mysterious charges be
Skylor
Well-Known Member
Thats fine, I like to know and understand what is going on with MM all across the world, not just here in Michigan. I'm not trying to profit from MM, I'm hoping that more people will be allowed to use MM in the coming years. We should to be working to make MM easier to get for the people, not harder, IMO
Dr. Bob
Well-Known Member
I completely agree, and one of the first steps is showing it has standards and works.
gladstoned
Well-Known Member
You forgot this post.
Dr. Bob
Well-Known Member
Both above are photos from paperwork presented to me by a patient in Marquette today. He felt it was 'shady' and wanted to renew legally. He was right. Date on the envelope was 6 Oct 2014 (well after the law disallowing through the mail certs went into effect 4-1-13) and it was mailed from Traverse City.
Skylor
Well-Known Member
Can we see some photos of the medical forms that U use currently ?
i
Its hard to read them carefully as the doctor is talking with U. I believe mine said that I promise not to use any opioids while I use MM....I wasn't so pleased about that part but since I haven't used them in years and I really don't care for opoids, I signed away but if I ever found myself laid up in some hospital again and in much pain, it be pain shot time once again, regardless what I promised
i
Its hard to read them carefully as the doctor is talking with U. I believe mine said that I promise not to use any opioids while I use MM....I wasn't so pleased about that part but since I haven't used them in years and I really don't care for opoids, I signed away but if I ever found myself laid up in some hospital again and in much pain, it be pain shot time once again, regardless what I promised
Dr. Bob
Well-Known Member
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/28101571/Clinic Paperwork/DrBobApplication071713.pdf
There they are right there... Note a couple of things- followup, dosages, side effect potential, schedule 1 status are all addressed and you are completely set up for a section 8 hearing (prosecutors ask about all these items). Note we even ask specifically if you want us to send a copy to your pmd. That was another issue the court dinged Proctor on.
There they are right there... Note a couple of things- followup, dosages, side effect potential, schedule 1 status are all addressed and you are completely set up for a section 8 hearing (prosecutors ask about all these items). Note we even ask specifically if you want us to send a copy to your pmd. That was another issue the court dinged Proctor on.
Skylor
Well-Known Member
Maybe that be right for the people in really bad shape, so bad that they are pretty much helpless caring for themselves, That be great if some doctor will still approve them for MM.
U are casting a wide net by claiming nobody will have protection if they just send that form along with their medical records. As I said before, some people U can tell just by looking at them that they are very ill.
Not everybody can easily leave their home--some might not easily get out of bed. What are those people to do, just suffer and use pills or shots ?
Hopefully their current doctor would send the forms in but what if they refuse
TheMan13
Well-Known Member
Do you offer to keep your MJ cert a secret from the patients pmd? Wouldn't the pmd be informed regardless by a pot doc's request for records?
Dr. Bob
Well-Known Member
Seriously, have you even reviewed the ruling, or any of this discussion? Goodwin had a clearly documented condition. That isn't enough.
As for your question about homebound patients just 'mailing it in' we do housecalls on those folks. In an extreme, and I mean extreme circumstance, I MIGHT consider a skype on a patient like that, but I would document the living heck out of it and the patient better be an existing patient with an overwhelming need to do it, good enough Bill Schuette would approve it. But to do it on any sort of a regular basis, that is clearly outside of the rules. There are folks doing skype clinics routinely WITH PROCTOR that have been on this forum. Their excuse? Traverse City is SOOOOO REMOTE that NO OTHER DOCTORS are available. BS. They are all over the place in TC. And they will see patients in person.
As for your question about homebound patients just 'mailing it in' we do housecalls on those folks. In an extreme, and I mean extreme circumstance, I MIGHT consider a skype on a patient like that, but I would document the living heck out of it and the patient better be an existing patient with an overwhelming need to do it, good enough Bill Schuette would approve it. But to do it on any sort of a regular basis, that is clearly outside of the rules. There are folks doing skype clinics routinely WITH PROCTOR that have been on this forum. Their excuse? Traverse City is SOOOOO REMOTE that NO OTHER DOCTORS are available. BS. They are all over the place in TC. And they will see patients in person.
Skylor
Well-Known Member
That form is for renewal, I would guess that means they seen and were approved for MM in the past. We are not getting any younger, most people get weaker as time goes by.
I certainly agree if U look fit and healthy, then one needs to be extra careful nobody claims your are not truly ill enough for MM. I've seen young adults in their early 20's at that High Times event, they looked on the outside as fit as one can be, those folks better have their medical records up to date and maybe even have more then one doctor saying they could benefit from MM
I certainly agree if U look fit and healthy, then one needs to be extra careful nobody claims your are not truly ill enough for MM. I've seen young adults in their early 20's at that High Times event, they looked on the outside as fit as one can be, those folks better have their medical records up to date and maybe even have more then one doctor saying they could benefit from MM
Dr. Bob
Well-Known Member
Another silly question. Patients control the notification of the doctor, they also control the requests for records. They can get them themselves for any reason, or they can request we get them. We also do far more than MMJ so the PMD doesn't even know for sure what they are seeing us for unless the patient tells them.
Please PM and ask about how records are obtained and other things before asking further questions that simply show you don't know how the process works. I'll be happy to answer.
Dr. Bob
Well-Known Member
Please review the act, it says doctor has assessed (which includes a face to face meeting) the CURRENT condition. There is a reason people have to come in every two years, it is because they need to be personally reassessed. There is NO time a through the mail renewal would be considered adequate.
Dr. Bob
Well-Known Member
I have for years, even in private practice... It is good to do and makes sure the patient is protected in the VERY unlikely event a homebound patient is called into court over a cert. But there is a chance, so off I go.
Dr. Bob
Well-Known Member
BTW, I'm going to put you on ignore until you learn to properly address me. I have told you I find 'pot doc' offensive. If anyone here feels one of your questions is important enough to answer, they can ask it.
Skylor
Well-Known Member
Thats interesting, for sure I am going in for my 6 month check up, one can't be too careful.
Its also worth noting that case U posted the defendant was charged with manufacturing more then 50 grams and less then 450 grams. To me, 50 grams is still alot, I used to think that anything over a 1/2 OZ--14 grams was asking for big problems legally if one was caught with it, This is way back in the 70--80's it was just hearsay between us HS boys. That the more weed U have, the easier it is to get in big trouble,
Even today I find myself never buying more then a half OZ at a time , even thou the law says I can have 2 1/2 OZ, usually a 1/4 OZ of one bud and another 1/4 OZ of another strain is more then enough of bud for me. I be scared to carry the full 2 1/2 OZ limit, very scared...weed gets heavier as it gets wet, it was hearsay again that sometimes the cops would wet your bud so it weight more so they could charge U with a felony (some dude claimed a cop spit in his bag a few times and then it weight more then an OZ--true or not, I got no idea--this was long before DNA came along)
So my limit is a 1/2 OZ, regardless what the law might say.maybe one day I buy an full OZ but then again why ask for problems, the less weed U have, the better, IMO
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Dr. Bob
Well-Known Member
I would tend to agree. That is where a proper certification comes in handy as well, if you get caught with more than you are allowed in section 4. Now 450gms is less than 17ounces. We can work with that in our clinic, and I can help as an expert witness. First of all, what was the actual, trimmed weight? You cannot estimate that which can be measured, especially if the actual weight is the key issue as it is here. Now if you look at my form, it says MOST folks can get by with an ounce or less per week. In a 4 month cycle, that is 16-17 ounces, so 450 gms is starting to look pretty reasonable. What do other states that actually put limits on cannabis purchases have to say? 2.5 ounces per 2 weeks. Again, 4 month cycle, 16 weeks = 2.5 x 8 or 20 ounces. Now 16-17 ounces is not only justifiable, but starting to look a little conservative. How about the federal government? Dose of smoke marijuana to them is 9 gms a day (yes I have a tin and a federal prescription in my possession to prove that in court), now 450gms is less than an 8 week supply. Get the point? Because I have things documented I can show how and WHY it is reasonable to have even 450 gms. I suspect he had less than that. I could have easily met his section 8 burden.
But then he drove past me, drove past Dave Croker, drove past Dr. Prince and met with Dr. Proctor in some hotel or dispensary didn't he? So how did he turn out again? Still want to mail in your renewal? How have they done in Cass Co. Why don't you ask the attorney Dan Grow?
Dr. Bob
But then he drove past me, drove past Dave Croker, drove past Dr. Prince and met with Dr. Proctor in some hotel or dispensary didn't he? So how did he turn out again? Still want to mail in your renewal? How have they done in Cass Co. Why don't you ask the attorney Dan Grow?
Dr. Bob