giving defoliation during flower a try

pk_boosted2

Well-Known Member
he does have A LOT of shoes though, IN SIZE 8, which explains EVERYTHING. Let's just say, if he lived out west, he would drive a super huge truck.

I also have alot of shoes is a 9 - 10.. I got 400 pairs my dude. I got em whatever sizes that fit... And mustangs and big trucks r for dudes w little dicks , i dont got that problem
 

pk_boosted2

Well-Known Member
Agree but to be fair it's his style of growing. That looks exactly like the lower branches of my indoor plants. This as opposed to a very sativa dominated 4 cola outdoors plant. Top colas were very wide, like 8-12" but also very fluffy - typical sativa phenotype as opposed to an indica mutt grown SCROG style.

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We all know that Cruz has us all beat with that Dalat! ;)
That looks like straight up hay.. Lol n youre the one these trolls dick ride.. Smh that stuff dries like a bunch of fluffy schwag and looks like it tastes like lawn clippings. I wouldnt even post a pic like that if my shit ever came out that bad which never would but def wouldnt show people it lmao
 

pk_boosted2

Well-Known Member
Cool, better waste of money than AN nutes... Got any Troops?
To each his own. I buy what I like funny how u guys always got suttin to say about everything. I show 1 small dried bud and then all the buds are small.. when u look at the picture there r buds that are as long or longer than the width of a drawer on a dresser which are over a foot long. Most of those buds on stem obviously are 12-16 inches probably weighing 8-10 grams dried a piece.. There are some small ones like one i showed u that r done drying and going into jars today. But its all mostly pretty large tops also remember these plants were only 2-2.5 ft tall that room i showed u is only 4 1/2 to 5 ft tall ceiling heights. After u hang light and equipment u only got about a good 3 ft of room before the tops would be too close. So i scrog everything into sea of green method and use every inch of canopy. My big plants obviously i pull down 2 ounce buds.

i was just making a point about AN that it produces good yields and quality when ppl r trashing the stuff it works well for me,
 

Sativied

Well-Known Member
I show 1 small dried bud and then all the buds are small..
Ok seriously, here's the thing: it just doesn't look that 'great'. You can't back up all those claims and big words and bragging with those pictures. It looks 'ok', not nearly as great as you present it to be, and certainly no indication of how wonderful AN is.

UB did say it was mostly your grow style. By itself no need to defend on not having huge colas, I too usually choose to grow many small buds opposed to a few large ones. Humid climate, smaller colas have far less chances of rotting. Heck, they cut it up per gram here so as long as individual nugs look good in a bag. However, if I'd get the result you got I'd consider that taking it a bit too far.

Grab some more objective shoes from the shelves for a moment... would you find those shots to be convincing if any of us would have posted them? I've seen much and much better results hundreds of times... Maybe we just have different standards.

If you weren't such a dick we'd all say congrats man, nice harvest, nice job and enjoy.
 

RM3

Well-Known Member
That looks like straight up hay.. Lol n youre the one these trolls dick ride.. Smh that stuff dries like a bunch of fluffy schwag and looks like it tastes like lawn clippings. I wouldnt even post a pic like that if my shit ever came out that bad which never would but def wouldnt show people it lmao
you have obviously never grown a land race sativa before LOL
 

chuck estevez

Well-Known Member
Ok seriously, here's the thing: it just doesn't look that 'great'. You can't back up all those claims and big words and bragging with those pictures. It looks 'ok', not nearly as great as you present it to be, and certainly no indication of how wonderful AN is.

UB did say it was mostly your grow style. By itself no need to defend on not having huge colas, I too usually choose to grow many small buds opposed to a few large ones. Humid climate, smaller colas have far less chances of rotting. Heck, they cut it up per gram here so as long as individual nugs look good in a bag. However, if I'd get the result you got I'd consider that taking it a bit too far.

Grab some more objective shoes from the shelves for a moment... would you find those shots to be convincing if any of us would have posted them? I've seen much and much better results hundreds of times... Maybe we just have different standards.

If you weren't such a dick we'd all say congrats man, nice harvest, nice job and enjoy.
totally, i would have just said, MERRY XMAS little guy.
 

Thecouchlock

Well-Known Member
I just finished 2 lights of cough using AN and idk how u guys fuck up the nutrients saying it doesnt produce well im firm believer that its user error cuz i hit 2 a light and produce asolute fire using AN so idk wtf u guys are talking about. Smh

This is only 2 of 4 plants from a 1k using AN so idk what u guys r doing wrong but AN products produce fire and heavy yields.
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That doesn't look like fire to me, you'd be lucky to get on the mid grade shelf bro.
 

Sp@rticus

Member
To each his own. I buy what I like funny how u guys always got suttin to say about everything. I show 1 small dried bud and then all the buds are small.. when u look at the picture there r buds that are as long or longer than the width of a drawer on a dresser which are over a foot long. Most of those buds on stem obviously are 12-16 inches probably weighing 8-10 grams dried a piece.. There are some small ones like one i showed u that r done drying and going into jars today. But its all mostly pretty large tops also remember these plants were only 2-2.5 ft tall that room i showed u is only 4 1/2 to 5 ft tall ceiling heights. After u hang light and equipment u only got about a good 3 ft of room before the tops would be too close. So i scrog everything into sea of green method and use every inch of canopy. My big plants obviously i pull down 2 ounce buds.

i was just making a point about AN that it produces good yields and quality when ppl r trashing the stuff it works well for me,
So do other WWWWAAAYYYY cheaper brands... I can help you improve your grows with some soda from your fridge...Here's the real trick you gotta soak a babies diaper in it and cover your soil so it drips slowly into the top couple inches...Or you can just foliar spray your plants w/ it in a hydro set up ...All coca cola brands are awesome ...Other then that lookin like some reg's quality have seen better brick's strait from mexico dudeo_O
 

Knott Collective

Well-Known Member
That doesn't look like fire to me, you'd be lucky to get on the mid grade shelf bro.
Getting on and staying on the top shelf is HARD. What we've learned is that the California medical-grade cannabis market can be a cold, cruel bitch. She don't care how hard we worked, or what nutes we used, or what newfangled light system was running, or how much we loved the strain and that all our friends drooled over it. She didn't care that we ran ten weekers a full ten weeks, that we threw away hard work when it didn't turn out right, that we spent hours and hours searching, experimenting and even had a member fly to Amsterdam for genetics (our Super Lemon Haze from Greenhouse).

Early on every time we walked into a collective it was a battle. The buyers/owners grind on price, the budtenders grind on everything else; the bag appeal, the nose, the moisture content, the hippie trim, etc. It's in their interest to provide as low a donation as possible for our products. Of course we wanted to get enough of a donation to cover our costs - that's how we are supposed to do this. And by the way, we rarely walk cold into a new collective these days - our rather ample production is generally spoken for before harvest. This allows us to select the collectives we want to work with (the ones that do it 100% according to California law) and let's us cull the shady operators. It's more paperwork and effort but it's the right way to operate.

Now on the donations - there has been an interesting development over the last three years or so. The donation curve has steepened. Once the product falls out of the top 5% level relative to quality across the overall market, the price plummets. Let's say we are working with a new collective on several units of Lemon. No trouble holding over $3k donation per unit for this strain, but if the product is only let's say 10% less in quality for whatever reason, the donation offers don't fall 10%. They plunge more like 40-50%! So a $3.2k unit drops to $1600-$1800. There seems to be no middle ground. We're either on the top shelf or slugging it out in the mosh pit below. And any where less than top shelf is a tough place to be.

I've seen young slingers with a backpack and a couple of units from their hobby or closet grows come in to a collective while we're there and it's heartbreaking to watch. I remember when I was at that point. So proud, so new, so confident I knew everything. Hell, I read it on the internet so it had to be correct, right? Right? LOL - "Hey, mister budtender look at this fire! Top shelf! Gimme top shelf $$$!" And then comes the long, hard swim. It's ugly to see. Been there, done that. Never again.

Keeping costs low is important for us. Purchasing AN, Dyna, H&G, Botanicare, etc. from storefront hydro stores is simply not cost effective. We go with online bulk nutrient salts and essentially make our own. Our master growers have learned how to read our cannabis plants and provide what they need. Sounds simple, huh? Well, not really. We do purchase some labeled products and additives but only those outside the regular N-P-K base. In our humble opinion there are better things to discuss than what brand nutrients can waste our money the fastest.

Peace & out. Gotta go make babies (Super Lemon Haze, Skywalker OG, SFV OG, GG#4, WiFi OG and Kryptonite) for next few runs ...
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Keeping costs low is important for us. Purchasing AN, Dyna, H&G, Botanicare, etc. from storefront hydro stores is simply not cost effective.
It's pretty obvious everything from a hydro store is a rip. Now, if you can beat the time saved, cost, and quality design of the following food, more power to ya! http://www.amazon.com/77900-Performance-Fertilizer-25-5-15-25-Pound/dp/B008JSIKCU/ref=pd_sxp_grid_pt_0_1

.....or a gallon of DG for $36. Both would last you forever, don't care how many plants you're growing.
 
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Knott Collective

Well-Known Member
Thanks UB. Second link you've provided to Jack's and both were spot on. We've been working with the JR Peters products for some time now. Good stuff and a fraction of the cost of hydro store products. Simply using their line of professional fertilizers requires one to learn the fundamentals of N-P-K-Ca-Mg-Fe uptake and utilization. I like how their products also contain other micro-nutrient components. They stay in solution well too (very few to no precipitates).

The Super Lemon Haze loves Jack's. Below is a pic from a few crops back at about week 7-8 or so of a ten week run. Notice the slender, happy haze leaves poking out of the super fat and dense buddage. These are happy plants. Those are 54" tall tomato cages with about an 16-18" top circle these beauties are towering over. And they're raised 4" off the ground with casters for easy plant movement. These buds are at eye level of a 6' tall person.

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The finished product (too bad ya can't smell things over the internet - whoever figures that one out is gonna get rich):
Super_Lemon_Haze.jpg
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Nice! Not only are the colas in beautiful shape but so are the leaves. Few understand the value of maintaining the leaves in such a healthy and dark green condition until harvest. Forum hype with the typical misguided crap about taste or such seems more important than potential yields.

I've tried quite few liquid fertilizers.....no mas. They all precipitate out eventually except for DG's Foliage Pro, Jack's dry is the only way to go for all around convenience, quality, and price. That link I gave you is a perfect NPK ratio - 3-1-2. In fact leaf petiole analysis studies reflect that a 3-1-2 NPK composition in plant tissue is pretty standard across many lines of plant material - citrus, soy, corn, beans, etc. I would expect cannabis to be no exception and born out by a very seasoned cannabis grower.

When you compare a macho 25-5-15 to a wimpy cannabis specific wimp food, say a 2-5-3, it's a no brainer. ;)

UB
 
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Cannasutraorganics

Well-Known Member
Thank you pk boost! Someone not afraid to speak up and try new things. I know there's people who defoliate that grow 10x better than anyone you see around forums, I know it's not a myth, just don't know how to properly and have not tried it myself. The reason the people that are successful with the technique aren't more out spoken about it is because they get shit on in forums about it and they just keep to themselves and bust out 3 lb plants under one light indoor consistently. The underground growers no one will ever see unless you know them ;)
Also when figuring amount of time spent on plants, defoliating adds lost of extra time. In a bigger grow it can become an overload to defoliate. I do it a lot. And then I get lazy and don't do it at all on some plants. Would love to get these nay Sayers sitting at my trim table and see the difference in the yield and quality of bud. Denser. More resin. And more good bud and almost nothing in the hash bag. I save some of the leaves I defoliate, loaded with CBD, and juice them. Also when the nay Sayers say they try it they do It on sativa's and do it too early and too much. When on Indica's the do it too early. And when it doesn't do well on one plant they say it doesn't work. I argued that defoliating and lollipopping are great when used right at the beginning of this and got tired of the crap. PK took over so I only see it once in awhile. I actually grow all year for a living. Make more off do clones then bud.
 

Cannasutraorganics

Well-Known Member
The internet has been around for about 20 years give or take to most mainstream America. Show me an article about defoliation from over say 10 years ago id love to see it. Its a new technique that still is being debated so ur reference to a baby and all that opening its eyes is irrelevant. Its a fact defoliation is not an old way of doing things its still very new, as is most of technology in growing has advanced by 100x in this past decade as computers did in the late 90s and internet did in the early 2000s. U werent first person to defoliate i dont need hear any more bs about how u been doing that since 1978 cuz thats some more bs if u say that i think ppl have caught onto lol.
I have a book written in 1865 that talks about the benefits of defoliating at certain times. Have another translated into English from a Chinese writer from the late 1500's with similar information and side by side tests done. All about marijuana. And a few other plants with opiat like affects. Medical marijuana has been grown and written about the affects and how they change based on how you grow it. And ways to use extractions. And how they extracted hundreds of years ago. Not new. But it hasn't been widely used or understood by most.
 

AlphaPhase

Well-Known Member
So much bickering still:wall:

That is a nice sativa ub ... Looks like a 15+ weeker, wish I had time for those. Also, Knotts buds look nice as well as pks. ..

Anyways, my extensively pruned plants suck right now. Yes they are sativa dom and I did the pruning wrong and it's a shitty pheno mutant, many factors at play.. but defoliation was not good for this strain at all. At least my attempt at it.... Compared to my non ddefoliated plants, they are SHIT. Hope everyone had a nice Christmas.

Cannasutra, I'd love to read the books you mentioned can you let me know tthe names so I can see if Ican find tthem at the library? Much appreciated
 

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AlphaPhase

Well-Known Member
Oh, and one more thing before I forget. My opinion on nutrients is this. If you use a COMPLETE nutrient regimen, well...then... that's all you need. Doesn't matter what the name tag is. I have never used AN, but I'm sure it IS good, it has to be complete with 12+ bottles of different nutrients. And if you have the money and like to complicate the nutrient mixing, that's a personal choice. Doesn't mean the nutrient is better because it cost more or has more additives to make a complete nute. I use a one part powder (one powder that works for veg AND bloom stages) and I love it. I used to use dyna, GH ect.. GH is incomplete.. technaflora was nice but too many additives.. but my current nute is easier for ME to use. I have self diagnosed ADD lol. I get overwhelmed messing with too many nutrients and I don't like it. I don't like having to add 8 different products and then have a moment like "oh shit, did I forget to add such and such?" and then add double on accident. My one part is more complete than 99% of nutrients out there and the results speak for themselves.

I guess the point I'm making is, as long as your nutrients are complete, it does not matter what you use. Period. Also, if you like a lower N in flowering because that's YOUR preference, then go for a product with less N. There really shouldn't be any arguing over nutes unless it's a debate about how COMPLETE someones nutes are. Good day.
 
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