greenghost420
Well-Known Member
i love me some fucking bagels, half toasted w cream cheese other halk grilled with extra butter mmmmmmmmm
DNA Testing and Terpene Fingerprinting
- Thread starter Jd Short
- Start date
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Ace Yonder
Well-Known Member
I like Half Cream Cheese Half Hummus, or Cream Cheese with Tomatoes and Salt (Both bagels toasted)
How was the other thread I started arrogant? Here it is word for word;
"Hi, nice to finally be here. I just wanted to start a thread and 'show my' work so to speak. Im Jd Short, Dj Short's son, and a next world breeder. The response to my Whitaker Blues and Azure Haze has been nothing short of absolutely heartwarming.
I am now currently working on making another strain available from Dj's Blueline. This will not be an outcross like my previous two breeding projects. I'll be selecting an f5 that has the desirable traits Im looking for and then backcross it with an unspecified male within Dj's stock. I'm super excited about the potential of this strain and you should too.
The first pic is about three weeks in veg and the second one form the other day when I topped em. I'll attempt to keep everyone here posted upon my progress and pheno selection.
Thanks, and take care.
Jd."
Im sorry you found the phrase "next world breeder" arrogant and offensive. I was merely making a play on Dj's slogan; "Old World Genetics." I consider myself a next world breeder using old world genetics. I thought it was clever and combined both worlds keeping the old with the new. And I beg to differ about being told my whole life that my shit smells like roses. I will admit to being sheltered just like many of us. I was however impoverished and remain so. My yearly income for several years has fallen below the poverty line. And before that it hovered right at it. I've never made more than 23k in one year and don't suspect I'll be breaking that record anytime soon.
By the way, potato is my safe word.
TonightYou
Well-Known Member
My girlfriend jokes that I am secretly Jewish due to my love of bagels.
ah man, don't get me started on hummus! I ordered a shwarma and hummus this week with "a shit load of pita bread". The guy placing my order laughed as he read the order back to me.
ah man, don't get me started on hummus! I ordered a shwarma and hummus this week with "a shit load of pita bread". The guy placing my order laughed as he read the order back to me.
Sativied
Well-Known Member
Wow...
@Jd Short: Since you mentioned you're new to this, I guess that's obvious, let me give you some advice:
This is not a discussion forum, it's a parody on what a cannabis grow forum could be but isn't thanks to pompous yet insecure kids who get a hard on judging others. You started off well with the stampede attitude, got to keep stomping cause if you pause once they will run right over you.
Patenting/licensing strains is a normal perfectly acceptable practice in the real world. Doesn't mean it has to become more expensive for growers, just more interesting for more professional and dedicated breeders to invest their time and money. It's not to fill the pockets of the breeder, it's to prevent others from filling their pockets based on the hard work of others. It's currently mostly interesting for those looking for easy money or large corporations. Suggesting an actual breeder who's gear gets stolen to ask how to earn the business of those who don't even appreciate/value the work is imo not realistic.
How about you all first stop buying (or worse, selling) ripped pollenchucks so the real breeders can make some money, maybe even grow large enough to survive the evil corporations else you can eventually all bark up that tree.. Same thing goes for all the character judgements and personal attacks in this thread, how about you all target that to those who buy (or worse, sell) ripped pollenchucks... cause this thread shows nicely why real breeders are hard to find or don't share a lot at trollitup and forums in general:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
"means responding to arguments by attacking a person's character, rather than to the content of their arguments."
Try not doing that for a week or so... maybe you'll all learn something from this guy.
@Jd Short: Since you mentioned you're new to this, I guess that's obvious, let me give you some advice:
This is not a discussion forum, it's a parody on what a cannabis grow forum could be but isn't thanks to pompous yet insecure kids who get a hard on judging others. You started off well with the stampede attitude, got to keep stomping cause if you pause once they will run right over you.
At least some constructive-meant advice in there. Most of those "we" don't even know what they want or should want. Apparently if one of 5 people find a keeper in a 10-pack it's "fire". And pretty sure that combination you mentioned is working quite well for some popular and pocket-filling 'breeders', which is exactly why "we" should be happy with breeders who actually breed to breed and not just to make money. What this industry needs is actually professional breeders who have a clue of what they are doing. Them adjusting to the demands of customers that have been misinformed and misled for decades isn't going to help the industry. It's the customers who support and allow for and even defend the pocket-fillers, not the few actual breeders out there.
Patenting/licensing strains is a normal perfectly acceptable practice in the real world. Doesn't mean it has to become more expensive for growers, just more interesting for more professional and dedicated breeders to invest their time and money. It's not to fill the pockets of the breeder, it's to prevent others from filling their pockets based on the hard work of others. It's currently mostly interesting for those looking for easy money or large corporations. Suggesting an actual breeder who's gear gets stolen to ask how to earn the business of those who don't even appreciate/value the work is imo not realistic.
How about you all first stop buying (or worse, selling) ripped pollenchucks so the real breeders can make some money, maybe even grow large enough to survive the evil corporations else you can eventually all bark up that tree.. Same thing goes for all the character judgements and personal attacks in this thread, how about you all target that to those who buy (or worse, sell) ripped pollenchucks... cause this thread shows nicely why real breeders are hard to find or don't share a lot at trollitup and forums in general:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
"means responding to arguments by attacking a person's character, rather than to the content of their arguments."
Try not doing that for a week or so... maybe you'll all learn something from this guy.
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Ace Yonder
Well-Known Member
We would absolutely love to but he refuses to say which seedbanks are selling ripped pollenchucks and which are selling his real breeder beans, so it's kinda hard advice to follow. Hard to give money to real breeders when they won't tell you where to buy their gear, and hard to target rippers with derision if he won't point out who is ripping his beans.
Sativied
Well-Known Member
Not sure if there are seedbanks that don't sell ripped pollenchucks.
While I don't know his exact reasons, I can easily think of a few. And even answering which seed banks do sell the original implies those he leaves out aren't selling the real thing. Regardless, if you were really interested in knowing where you can buy a certain strain you could pm or email him or even ask in another thread/setting probably and figure it out. It seems the question in this thread is however meant solely to lure him out to point out and accuse specific seed banks or individuals even, to shoot himself in the foot, or perhaps after this thread the other foot, rather than making yourselves informed customers.
I don't have the solution either, I recommend buying from breeders directly and if that's not possible ask the breeder which seedbank sells the original. Honestly if you really have to ask, the breeder is doing something wrong I will give you that. Easy enough to put up a list of official dealers/distributors or w/e on the breeders's website (which should have plenty of pictures and descriptions during various stages of the grow and point out the key traits that make that strain that strain, if a breeder can't do that... avoid.)
Wouldn't it be great if customers (growers, users, dispensaries/shops) would be able to see what's what? I wonder if his first post was partly sparked by the dna database project Sam is involved in, has that been brought up in this thread/forum yet?
st0wandgrow
Well-Known Member
You refer to him a couple times as a "real breeder". I suppose we should define what that is, but IMO it boils down to one thing: Can I find a plant in a pack of seeds that meets the breeders description of that strain? JD has started 2 threads, and I have yet to see anyone chiming in that has found that plant. Add to that the fact that his seeds sell for twice the amount of most other seed companies, AND he has been anything but accommodating..... not hard to see why be's being met with some guff.
He has done nothing but blame growers and "knock-offs" for poor results from their seeds. Give me a break. I find it very hard to believe that The Attitude and other reputable seed banks are selling fake seeds under the brand name DJ Short. Instead of fielding the complaints and trying to improve the product, he seems more interested in excuse making and feeling sorry for himself.
Wether it's fair or not, breeders are judged by their products and their interactions with growers. I think someone like Bodhi does a great job of this. The 4 strains of his that I have tried have all been excellent, and he comes across as a gracious, humble man who stays out of the online flame wars. I don't know if you consider him a "real breeder", but I will continue to support people like him regardless.
HGK420
Well-Known Member
"You fancy kids and your steam engines are so stupid!!! I'm going back to breeding horse teams!!"
Actually... It's more like
"You fancy kids and your Tesla roadsters are so stupid!!!! I'm going back to breeding horse teams!!"
As time goes on, generations go flying by and every now and then a spark of genetic brilliance pops up that shines far brighter then it's surroundings. At one time some phenotyps of blueberry were this spark. While you guys tried to capture that spark the world keeps moving and evolving.
Say what you will but innovation is what keeps the world turning.
The Dutch have very bland tastes in herb. They even mix tobacco with it a lot of the time. Nowadays in America with our turbo over the top MAXIMUM AWESOME flavor explosion from Doritos to red bull to any other extreme food or behavior... We're extreme.
We are also lazy AF. For the most part. My grandpa would totally understand the need to dig through a poop ton of seeds to find a winner but he'd also tell you Milwaukee's best is a good beer... i don't reckon the old timers are the best judge on what constitutes cutting edge. Old timers find grooves that are successful and milk them til they die...
Then while the old timers are milking their grooves you get kids with nothing to loose going for broke pollinating entire mountainsides just to make stock to pop and look for mothers in, shout out to obs and the swamp boys. Then you also got guys with business degrees and a love for strong herb with a good pallete that are able to comepletely blow the market out bodhi style but with even more connections around the canna world, shout out to greenpoint.
Take our criticism however you feel but we are the consumers and the future. The majority of people around the world are over this "just buy mine it's the best cause my grandpa said so" attitude.
I'm all for "letting real breeders make money" if they can keep up with the evolution of the cutting edge. This isn't soviet Russia. You sound like a bankster or something. As the world evolves new better products come out and new techniques take over... Shit evolves!!! Sit still and die
Actually... It's more like
"You fancy kids and your Tesla roadsters are so stupid!!!! I'm going back to breeding horse teams!!"
As time goes on, generations go flying by and every now and then a spark of genetic brilliance pops up that shines far brighter then it's surroundings. At one time some phenotyps of blueberry were this spark. While you guys tried to capture that spark the world keeps moving and evolving.
Say what you will but innovation is what keeps the world turning.
The Dutch have very bland tastes in herb. They even mix tobacco with it a lot of the time. Nowadays in America with our turbo over the top MAXIMUM AWESOME flavor explosion from Doritos to red bull to any other extreme food or behavior... We're extreme.
We are also lazy AF. For the most part. My grandpa would totally understand the need to dig through a poop ton of seeds to find a winner but he'd also tell you Milwaukee's best is a good beer... i don't reckon the old timers are the best judge on what constitutes cutting edge. Old timers find grooves that are successful and milk them til they die...
Then while the old timers are milking their grooves you get kids with nothing to loose going for broke pollinating entire mountainsides just to make stock to pop and look for mothers in, shout out to obs and the swamp boys. Then you also got guys with business degrees and a love for strong herb with a good pallete that are able to comepletely blow the market out bodhi style but with even more connections around the canna world, shout out to greenpoint.
Take our criticism however you feel but we are the consumers and the future. The majority of people around the world are over this "just buy mine it's the best cause my grandpa said so" attitude.
I'm all for "letting real breeders make money" if they can keep up with the evolution of the cutting edge. This isn't soviet Russia. You sound like a bankster or something. As the world evolves new better products come out and new techniques take over... Shit evolves!!! Sit still and die
TonightYou
Well-Known Member
Best is relatively subjective to a degree and cannabis is really diverse in effects, flavorss, taste, and growing characteristics. What's best for one may not be best for another.
Despite the personal preferences, cannabis has gotten better over the years. There is more diversity, more available traits, and more stable strains. There still is a bunch of shitty traits and breeders but there is more options than ever.
Fire to me probably isn't fire to everyone. I consider strains to be fire if they produce plants that are stable (for some this doesn't matter), that give off unique aromas and taste, impressive to look at, and most importantly give me an awesome high whether it be sativa or indica.
Despite the personal preferences, cannabis has gotten better over the years. There is more diversity, more available traits, and more stable strains. There still is a bunch of shitty traits and breeders but there is more options than ever.
Fire to me probably isn't fire to everyone. I consider strains to be fire if they produce plants that are stable (for some this doesn't matter), that give off unique aromas and taste, impressive to look at, and most importantly give me an awesome high whether it be sativa or indica.
King Arthur
Well-Known Member
Well JD you asked a question and as I stated I would answer it. I worked in a collective for 3 years, went from stocking shelves to leading a team. We went from small time to big time real fast and the growth of employees + board of directors was very stressful. There became high school drama about almost everything and I hate drama so I said fuck it. By the time I decided I wanted to not be part of the political aspect I found a passion for just having one on one time with the plant. I know what goes into a lot of grows as I worked hand in hand with the vendors who brought us "medicine". The problem is a lot of people will cut corners and use harsh chemicals in order to maximize their profit and minimize any losses. What that does is take a medicine and turns it into a pharmaceutical basically. You get all this added shit that you never intended on in the first place.
I do personally know the breeders from Elemental Seeds but I show not only success but slight failures. Even if it is my fault, I don't always point the finger to the person who makes the beans I chalk it up to mother nature and man made mistakes. Everyone can make a mistake and certain breeders I won't buy from if I don't get the desired results repeatedly.
This place doesn't need anymore bad vibes, I gave you an answer I am still respectfully awaiting mine. Where does one obtain legit beans. Do I have to call your father? Does he have a business phone or email? All I wanna know is where to get the real shit.
I do personally know the breeders from Elemental Seeds but I show not only success but slight failures. Even if it is my fault, I don't always point the finger to the person who makes the beans I chalk it up to mother nature and man made mistakes. Everyone can make a mistake and certain breeders I won't buy from if I don't get the desired results repeatedly.
This place doesn't need anymore bad vibes, I gave you an answer I am still respectfully awaiting mine. Where does one obtain legit beans. Do I have to call your father? Does he have a business phone or email? All I wanna know is where to get the real shit.
Sativied
Well-Known Member
Hmmm, usually I'm the one who complains about "real breeder"... Horrible phrase... but I did indeed call him that because that's certainly what one can expect from DJ's son, someone who goes a little further than putting the best with the best. I'm not sticking up for his gear, nor for his approach in this thread, but you all pushing a train I rather see riding here than wreck - regardless of his results, and regardless of personal character traits others project on him.
Yeah the most extreme examples of how you can interpret something are hard to believe, it's why you make it up in the first place. Like I said, I'm not sure there even are seedbanks that don't sell pollenchucked rippoffs, whether specifically Attitude specifically sells DJ's gear under a false name... probably not... I don't know. Have other breeders used his strains or someone else's and with little to no effort (as in no real breeding) created some beans which are for sale there too... Like I said, not sure there are any untainted cause stuff like that happens as if it's normal. That project I mentioned will show some of that sooner or later.
I quoted you because you're the least hostile but you do show already a little why I don't blame the guy for not pulling the can entirely open - it upsets the herd.
That sums up what I've said a couple of times myself. Stability and uniformity is actually a requirement to patent a strain in the netherlands (not cannabis...), it should be implied. It's the problem I have with those find-a-keeper packs. That keeper should be a vigorous version of the strain, not just one that happens to meet the breeder's description. If that really happens with his gear I'm on the wrong side
However, that obviously isn't all there's too it cause that would mean it's ok to rip someone else creation as long as you stabilize it more than the original breeder.He said he's new to this, if anyone deserves a "break" I think it's him. He obviously doesn't realize he should either ignore all the ad hominems or reply with memes, instead he defends himself, which then means he's making excuses and feeling sorry for himself? I haven't read the entire thread, got bored with the judging, but that seems more the desire of others than his own.
And no, not going for your bodhi seeds bait.
Simply not true, at least not for "the dutch" in general. Focus has been on taste for a long time after decades of beefing up yield and frost wise. Aren't you the guy who represents Moto online because he got fed up with forums? Name sounds familiar. If so, what are your references for that statement? Sannie's gear?
st0wandgrow
Well-Known Member
At the end of the day this is a business, and we as consumers speak with our pocket book. This thread has done nothing to prompt me to spend my money on his gear. You apparently feel differently. I'd love to see you pick up a few packs of his seeds and document them here. I'm always open to changing my mind....Hmmm, usually I'm the one who complains about "real breeder"... Horrible phrase... but I did indeed call him that because that's certainly what one can expect from DJ's son, someone who goes a little further than putting the best with the best. I'm not sticking up for his gear, nor for his approach in this thread, but you all pushing a train I rather see riding here than wreck - regardless of his results, and regardless of personal character traits others project on him.
Yeah the most extreme examples of how you can interpret something are hard to believe, it's why you make it up in the first place. Like I said, I'm not sure there even are seedbanks that don't sell pollenchucked rippoffs, whether specifically Attitude specifically sells DJ's gear under a false name... probably not... I don't know. Have other breeders used his strains or someone else's and with little to no effort (as in no real breeding) created some beans which are for sale there too... Like I said, not sure there are any untainted cause stuff like that happens as if it's normal. That project I mentioned will show some of that sooner or later.
I quoted you because you're the least hostile but you do show already a little why I don't blame the guy for not pulling the can entirely open - it upsets the herd.
That sums up what I've said a couple of times myself. Stability and uniformity is actually a requirement to patent a strain in the netherlands (not cannabis...), it should be implied. It's the problem I have with those find-a-keeper packs. That keeper should be a vigorous version of the strain, not just one that happens to meet the breeder's description. If that really happens with his gear I'm on the wrong side
He said he's new to this, if anyone deserves a "break" I think it's him. He obviously doesn't realize he should either ignore all the ad hominems or reply with memes, instead he defends himself, which then means he's making excuses and feeling sorry for himself? I haven't read the entire thread, got bored with the judging, but that seems more the desire of others than his own.
And no, not going for your bodhi seeds bait.
Simply not true, at least not for "the dutch" in general. Focus has been on taste for a long time after decades of beefing up yield and frost wise. Aren't you the guy who represents Moto online because he got fed up with forums? Name sounds familiar. If so, what are your references for that statement? Sannie's gear?
TonightYou
Well-Known Member
That's what blow my mind about him. Here he has a captive audience talking about his gear. While some of us have been a tad rude, it's nonetheless an opportunity to sell us on his families gear. Other breeders have been much more graceful even when dealing with a jackass (not saying anyone here had necessarily been one) instead of being defensive.
I still recall over on the bay when someone was pissed off about some Bodhi gear that didn't germinate. Many members basically stated their positive experience with germination rates and this fella carried on. Now Bodhi could have told the man child to pound sand, and to fuck off simply based on his behavior (which to be honest, I would have done as he was being completely obnoxious). Instead Bodhi apologized for his experience and asked him to PM him to make it right by sending him replacements. The man child calmed down and changed his tune.
Now that experience fixed someone's experience from being negative to positive and reinforced a positive feeling with his brand to his many devoted growers. Regardless if you like Bodhi's gear or not, that was one hell of a way to deal with criticism and a pissed off customer.
My experience with Ace genetics started off on a negative note when I had terrible germination rates. They didn't have any obligation to make it right but a polite email to them and they offered any replacement I wanted with the suggestion to avoid the strain I did want as their stock was old. 7 days later, I had a ten pack replacing the original five pack I ordered. Now I didn't find anything overly special from the original gal I had but having Ace go above and beyond in a situation has made me a customer for other offerings.
That's customer service. It isn't getting defensive and pissed off. It's trying to make a negative or neutral situation into a positive.
JD has this opportunity, I am interested in their gear. My hesitation comes from comments other growers have made over the years, growers I respect and enjoy seeing their grows. These aren't newbies, and regardless of how fickle a plant is, some of these growers have tackled pure sativas, legit OG cuts and other sensitive plants. Many times blaming the growers may be the correct path, but other times it's simply incorrect.
King Arthur
Well-Known Member
Too many factors to just blame the grower, you have to look at the whole rather than a part. If you popped 100 beans and only 10 germinated I would say to check the process and then if the process has been tested and worked many times before I would move on to the breeder. I don't throw blame around until I know for a fact the beans are shit. Cali Connections is the shittiest bean stock I have ever grown from and I had plenty of herm pictures to prove it. Unfortunately my hard drive crashed and so I am using my phone now adays.
Hydroburn
Well-Known Member
prices of beans are fine.... you are paying for the dna of the best specimen in the pack. if they were too expensive no on would buy them.
sounds like shitty grower problems. even an average grower should not be getting many hermies. probably get better terp profile if you werent doing whatever youre doing.
TonightYou
Well-Known Member
Much less than 100 beans needs to be shown to blame the grower or breeder when it comes to germination. All I need to know to make a reasonable judgement Is a couple key pieces of information. First, what method of germination is one using. Germination is rather easy, many different ways to do this, and includes moisture, temperature and time. Second piece of information I need is how successful is this generally for you and if ones methods yield more than 1/10 duds.
Sometimes it's simply poor germination on behalf of a company
Ace Yonder
Well-Known Member
Here's the problem. HE was the one who tabled the discussion of ripped seeds. He started this whole thread by implying that many (perhaps even most) seedbanks that sell his gear are selling fakes. Then, by refusing to say even a single one that has genuine beans, he has kind of implied that ALL of them are selling fakes. It's not like we (at least not me) sidetracked his f5 thread to talk about rippoffs vs genuine and where to get them. HE started this thread to talk about that, HE "Blew the whistle" as he put it, and then "won't call the foul", also as he put it. This is my problem. He started the discussion, he claims that it is a crime that people are being tricked into buying fake seeds, but he won't even say where you can get real ones. People have asked him to PM them if he doesn't want to answer publicly, and they are still asking, indicating that he is refusing to answer even privately. I'm not trying to railroad him, I'm trying to HELP him, because as of right now, BECAUSE OF WHAT HE HAS SAID IN THIS THREAD ABOUT FAKES, I have ZERO plans to EVER purchase DJ Short seeds, because he has made it clear there is no way (Including asking the breeder) to find out where to actually get them. He keeps saying "The genetics speak for themselves" but he won't tell us where to get them to allow them to speak for themselves. At this point I honestly feel it is because if he says where you can get genuine seeds, he can no longer claim that a sub-par grow from that source was from fake seeds.
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