DIY 80W vero 18 UFO killer

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
Figured I'd take some pictures of how I solder these.

1) Get iron hot
IMAG0187.jpg

1) hold tip against each pad for 5 seconds while holding solder against pad. The pad will suck up the fresh solder and form a small lump.
IMAG0186.jpg
IMAG0184.jpg

2) tin the wires, then solder them on!
IMAG0190.jpg

If done right, you will rip the pads off before breaking the solder joint. You can also apply a bit of solder to the tip, but only enough to lower the thermal resistance between the tip and the pad.

The drivers showed up, so I wanna hurry up getting it setup!
 
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churchhaze

Well-Known Member
Phew.. Everything is together, and hung where it goes.

Ignore the "mylar foil" scotch taped to the wall. It does not create hot spots! *cough*.. ehem.. they will suffice for now! Anyway, this is the box these 2 were designed for.
IMAG0191.jpg

IMAG0193.jpg

Wago 222 connector in the back connecting panels in series.
IMAG0197.jpg

quick chain job.
IMAG0198.jpg

This needs to be screwed to the wood frame. It can support 3 of these baby killers in series, but not 1. It must have at least 2 in series.
IMAG0202.jpg

Time for a rest.
 
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wirat

Well-Known Member
Church, very good stuff. Your heat sink and hanger mounting looks very clean and professional. I noticed a Chinese vendor that sells COB lights laid out very much like yours, (Google 432w Spider COB LED by Twilight Group) I noticed it when doing more research on the 80w UFO Killer. They don't list prices or what model COBs they use (of course) but I thought it would be a good comparison for others to see how much they could save by DIY rather than buying commercial. It also has some light testing info there but if they don't list what COBs they use, I guess that doesn't help much. I asked for pricing in an email so we shall see what they are asking for them soon.

Update: Apparently this company is a sponsor on another grow forum site (420 Mag) and there are FAQs there that lists the specs of the COBs, appears they use Epistar: Pricing though is not listed.

Epistar LED
ES-CADBV45P Venus-series blue 450 45mil 700mA
ES-CABLV45P Venus-series blue 460nm 45mil 700mA
ES-SMSOPX42 UHB-PX orange 615nm 42mil 700 mA
ES-SMHRPX42 UHB-PX red 624nm 42mil 700 mA
ES-SMBRPN42C UHB-PN red 660nm 42mil 700 mA
ES-SMHFPN42B UHB-PN red 730nm 42mil 700 mA

UV and White from Epiled
Epiled
EP-U4545K-A3 45mil UV
EP-B4545V-A3 45mil White
 
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PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
Phew.. Everything is together, and hung where it goes.

Ignore the "mylar foil" scotch taped to the wall. It does not create hot spots! *cough*.. ehem.. they will suffice for now! Anyway, this is the box these 2 were designed for.
View attachment 3349006

View attachment 3349007

Wago 222 connector in the back connecting panels in series.
View attachment 3349009

quick chain job.
View attachment 3349010

This needs to be screwed to the wood frame. It can support 3 of these baby killers in series, but not 1. It must have at least 2 in series.
View attachment 3349011

Time for a rest.
What the hell is a "hot spot"??????:wink:........................nice build church
 

wirat

Well-Known Member
Hey I have some questions for you LED experts. I only have basic electronics experience.

1. What determines the # of mAs the COB will be powered with? Is it the mA rating of the driver? Are the mAs of the drivers fixed?
2. How do you determine the best efficiency of the COB? If a COB can run at 1.5 amps, how do you determine that 700mA is most efficient?
3. How to you read the bin number on the Cree LEDs? I know they are rated alpha-numerically somehow, but what digits are those in the part number?
4. How do you determine how large of a heat sink you need and if it needs a fan or can be passive?
5. How would you determine what parts you need if you wanted to build a DIY COB LED equivalent to a 300w HPS? Is a 50w rated COB rated that at 100% power and if you run them at say 80% then you need to buy 8 of them? (.80*50=40x8=320W?) Just guessing here...

Thanks in advance amigos! Sorry if these questions sound ignorant, if they do it's just because I haven't been able to find much information on how to match up the proper LED with the proper driver and which heat sink would be enough, etc. You guys all seem to know how to match up all three. Where the heck did you learn this?
 

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
1. The driver should be constant current sources. The voltage output can vary within a limited range to regulate the constant current. All diodes will have a characteristic curve in the datasheet that shows the relationship between current and voltage. Diodes do not follow V=IR, and instead of have an exponential relationship defined by the characteristic curve. For the current you want to run at, find the corresponding voltage on the characteristic curve in the cobs datasheet.

2) The efficiency for a given COB is always better when run at a lower current, but 350mA, 500ma, 700mA, 1050mA, and 1400mA are the best options for the available 91-94% efficient drivers. Pick one of those currents.

3) The datasheet explains it

4) Big. You probably will need a fan to get Tc below 70C in most setups. The baby killers are about what you need to get 20W dissipation at 47% efficiency to 35C. The 80W UFO killers will work fine without fans, but efficiency is greatly increased with a reduction of Tc from 70C.

5) Look at all the larger HLG-C driver datasheets and find how many cobs of each kind you could fit in series given it's voltage range for the current you want to run at, then pick the configuration that works best for your growing space.

Hey I have some questions for you LED experts. I only have basic electronics experience.

1. What determines the # of mAs the COB will be powered with? Is it the mA rating of the driver? Are the mAs of the drivers fixed?
2. How do you determine the best efficiency of the COB? If a COB can run at 1.5 amps, how do you determine that 700mA is most efficient?
3. How to you read the bin number on the Cree LEDs? I know they are rated alpha-numerically somehow, but what digits are those in the part number?
4. How do you determine how large of a heat sink you need and if it needs a fan or can be passive?
5. How would you determine what parts you need if you wanted to build a DIY COB LED equivalent to a 300w HPS? Is a 50w rated COB rated that at 100% power and if you run them at say 80% then you need to buy 8 of them? (.80*50=40x8=320W?) Just guessing here...

Thanks in advance amigos! Sorry if these questions sound ignorant, if they do it's just because I haven't been able to find much information on how to match up the proper LED with the proper driver and which heat sink would be enough, etc. You guys all seem to know how to match up all three. Where the heck did you learn this?
 

wirat

Well-Known Member
1. The driver should be constant current sources. The voltage output can vary within a limited range to regulate the constant current. All diodes will have a characteristic curve in the datasheet that shows the relationship between current and voltage. Diodes do not follow V=IR, and instead of have an exponential relationship defined by the characteristic curve. For the current you want to run at, find the corresponding voltage on the characteristic curve in the cobs datasheet.

2) The efficiency for a given COB is always better when run at a lower current, but 350mA, 500ma, 700mA, 1050mA, and 1400mA are the best options for the available 91-94% efficient drivers. Pick one of those currents.

3) The datasheet explains it

4) Big. You probably will need a fan to get Tc below 70C in most setups. The baby killers are about what you need to get 20W dissipation at 47% efficiency to 35C. The 80W UFO killers will work fine without fans, but efficiency is greatly increased with a reduction of Tc from 70C.

5) Look at all the larger HLG-C driver datasheets and find how many cobs of each kind you could fit in series given it's voltage range for the current you want to run at, then pick the configuration that works best for your growing space.

Church, very good stuff. Your heat sink and hanger mounting looks very clean and professional. I noticed a Chinese vendor that sells COB lights laid out very much like yours, (Google 432w Spider COB LED by Twilight Group) I noticed it when doing more research on the 80w UFO Killer. They don't list prices or what model COBs they use (of course) but I thought it would be a good comparison for others to see how much they could save by DIY rather than buying commercial. It also has some light testing info there but if they don't list what COBs they use, I guess that doesn't help much. I asked for pricing in an email so we shall see what they are asking for them soon.

Update: Apparently this company is a sponsor on another grow forum site (420 Mag) and there are FAQs there that lists the specs of the COBs, appears they use Epistar: Pricing though is not listed.

Epistar LED
ES-CADBV45P Venus-series blue 450 45mil 700mA
ES-CABLV45P Venus-series blue 460nm 45mil 700mA
ES-SMSOPX42 UHB-PX orange 615nm 42mil 700 mA
ES-SMHRPX42 UHB-PX red 624nm 42mil 700 mA
ES-SMBRPN42C UHB-PN red 660nm 42mil 700 mA
ES-SMHFPN42B UHB-PN red 730nm 42mil 700 mA

UV and White from Epiled
Epiled
EP-U4545K-A3 45mil UV
EP-B4545V-A3 45mil White

Well, Twilight replied to my email about the Spider 432W COB, they seemed nice enough. The Spider 432W COB LED (4ea X 108W user replaceable COBs) is currently $259.50. Using Epistar COBs, they claim 17280lm, actual draw 265W, driven at 600mA. There are two spectrum ratios you can choose between.

It says the enire body acts as the heatsink, so I wonder if it is just one large square heatsink with all 4 COBs mounted to it. Also, I wonder if there is just one driver in there and they are all wired in series. I would suspect it is for keeping cost down. I don't know if the Chinese made Epister COBs and driver would be junk, or if it would perform as well as the Cree and Bridgelux. This one has lenses on it too, which looks nice and I guess if you are selling them commerically you have to consider liablity, safety due to exposed chips, etc. You could always take them off if you wanted to.

There is a spec sheet for it here: http://www.twilightgroups.net/sitefiles/services/cms/utils.aspx?type=Download&publishmentSystemID=2&channelID=5&contentID=6

So for $260 it has a case and everything, not sure if the same money would build a much better DIY. I am still learning about electronics with LEDs, (mostly the math,lol!) on how to match up the proper driver, use one driver with 4 COBs in series, or is it better to run 4 drivers, computing mA, forward voltage, etc.

I am still confused as to determining what the wattage of a COB LED is without digging into the spec sheet for each. I know drivers use a constant current and a dynamic range of voltage based on operating temps and draw of the LED, but isn't there a quick way to know that "Cree XXXX..." is a 10 or 50 watt COB? How do you know which COB to select for the wattage you desire, eg; I want to make a 4 COB 250W HPS equivilent DIY for a small cabinet, not a 1000W? Assembly is not an issue for me.

If running them soft which COBs would be best to buy and which driver for having 4 of them in series for the same output? Is wiring in series better than parrallel with COBs or does it not matter as long as you have a big enough driver for all 4 COBs?
 
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Randomblame

Well-Known Member
Hi Wirat!
You are on the right place here, I've learned so much about LED's here! I never would spend my money for the most of chinese manufacturers. The best way to get that lamp you want is to build it by yourself!

3x Vero29=85$US running in series,
1x Meanwell HLG185H-C1400=65$US is one of the best options,
3x Arctic Alpine11/64+=30$US CPU coolers with fans
_________________________________________
= 180$US
I'm really sure that DIY will outperform that Chinese Spyder COB with only 160w(Ø 20.000lm@1,4A, if you want to compare it).
I'm not sure, but I think the Spider have "Grow-LED" with different colours. The most people here swear for white CoB.
The most complete LED devices you can buy are rebrandet OEM China produkts without or with bad binnings, cheap Epileds, bad coolings and cheap drivers. There are only a hand full good manufactures with good devices like Area51or Hans-Panel coming from USA or netherlands, but the most chinese OEM's are the money not worth! Sorry! The most datasheets are the paper not worth and they lie the blue from the sky. I've read from fabulous μMols values, but what they really grows, was plants with bleeching and small popcorn buds. I'm sure the best way go get a well suitable LED for your grow-area is to build it by yourself!
I would recommend not to waste 260$US, if you have the skills to build your own DIY.
Just my 2ct.
 
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wirat

Well-Known Member
Hi Wirat!
You are on the right place here, I've learned so much about LED's here! I never would spend my money for the most of chinese manufacturers. The best way to get that lamp you want is to build it by yourself!

3x Vero29=85$US running in series,
1x Meanwell HLG185H-C1400=65$US is one of the best options,
3x Arctic Alpine11/64+=30$US CPU coolers with fans
_________________________________________
= 180$US
I'm really sure that DIY will outperform that Chinese Spyder COB with only 160w(Ø 20.000lm@1,4A, if you want to compare it).
I'm not sure, but I think the Spider have "Grow-LED" with different colours. The most people here swear for white CoB.
The most complete LED devices you can buy are rebrandet OEM China produkts without or with bad binnings, cheap Epileds, bad coolings and cheap drivers. There are only a hand full good manufactures with good devices like Area51or Hans-Panel coming from USA or netherlands, but the most chinese OEM's are the money not worth! Sorry! The most datasheets are the paper not worth and they lie the blue from the sky. I've read from fabulous μMols values, but what they really grows, was plants with bleeching and small popcorn buds. I'm sure the best way go get a well suitable LED for your grow-area is to build it by yourself!
I would recommend not to waste 260$US, if you have the skills to build your own DIY.
Just my 2ct.
Random - yes the more I learn the more I agree. The discussions here are awesome and you get to see great examples/proof of concept and new ideas when people post their projects. If the Chinese can sell it for $260, it appears you can DIY better quality for the same money.
 

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
Hey churchhaze!
+1!
Will achieve a good efficiency with optimum light distribution! Wanted only to offer more light as the Chinese with a better price!
Currently I have 6 Vero18@1050mA combined with a 300w Top LED (the ugly green Mars, 180w real). I got it from a friend (50 bucks), because he upgraded to the Mars2.(Yes, he did! He is advisory resistant, lol!)
Results are not bad but a way too much popcorn,Lol! But I'm planning to take 3 of the new Vero29² in the mid of april(they will arrive to digikey), to add them in the flower and replace it!
Maybe I can cannibalize the Mars, or I do replace a portion of the colored LED's against cool and warm white diodes and use it for my mothers!
The casing is also good enough and with a few flat 10 "heatsinks I can easily turn into a 6 Vero18 or 3 Vero29.

I love this forum because of all the knowledge of LED's that I'm absorbing like a sponge! I'm dreaming already of μMols, lumens and watts but that's okay, because I know, the learned has been processed, Lol!
 

array

Member
Hi churchhaze, I just discovered your build. Looks really great and it is nice and clean. I've been reading blogs for days now trying to figure out something very close to your build. I have couple questions:
1. How is the passive cooling going? If you have to do it again, will you get bigger/smaller heatsinks? Are the cobs holding it with the current setup?
2. I'm a little afraid running high voltage drivers. If you have to do it one driver per cob, but lower voltage which one would you choose? Something in the 50 volt range or less. I found this website that sells all kinds of Meanwells if you have time to take a look: http://www.trcelectronics.com/led-drivers.shtml
3. I don't see you attaching your drivers on top of your heatsinks. Where do you place them?
 

array

Member
What if I order 5.866 x 6 inch from heatsinkusa and put one cob per heatsink with the meanwell apc-35-1050 vero 18 4000K, would that generate the same heat as your lights or will I need a little more heatsink for passive cooling because of the higher amps? Trying to light up some corners in the tent...
 

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
Hi churchhaze, I just discovered your build. Looks really great and it is nice and clean. I've been reading blogs for days now trying to figure out something very close to your build. I have couple questions:
1. How is the passive cooling going? If you have to do it again, will you get bigger/smaller heatsinks? Are the cobs holding it with the current setup?
2. I'm a little afraid running high voltage drivers. If you have to do it one driver per cob, but lower voltage which one would you choose? Something in the 50 volt range or less. I found this website that sells all kinds of Meanwells if you have time to take a look: http://www.trcelectronics.com/led-drivers.shtml
3. I don't see you attaching your drivers on top of your heatsinks. Where do you place them?
1. It's semi-passive. I stick 120mm fans on some of them, but it's not required. Temp droop isn't high, but still worth the efficiency boost from the fan. My semi-passive design was meant mostly for simplicity and reduce required moving parts that could cause the whole system to fail.

2. I don't know if i could do this with individual drivers anymore. This design doesn't have high voltage imo. (only 129VDC, which you're exposed to on the AC side anyway)

3. The 3 drivers are screwed into a wooden board, which is tied to the tent frame on the top. DC is routed to each of the fixture/sinks.


I thought you were talking about this thread at first:
http://rollitup.org/t/diy-cxb2530-3000k-80cri-u2-bin-vero-killers.862298/
 
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