right to work passed in wisconsin-now what?

OddBall1st

Well-Known Member
Pin, let me tell you what I see out of this Union thing,

The Boston Public School system has hired a Union from Chicago because it`s cheaper. Well 90% of the big bus drivers have a class one driving license, but the secondary school van and carpooling part is made up of people this union has never met. they are leaving kids, crashing, taking them home as drive vehicles with gas,.... and insurance that expires at seven o`clock each day. It`s out of Fucking control and it should be in the hands of the Mayor.
 

panhead

Well-Known Member
Hey Panhead, I like a spirited debate. Right now I have 5 employee's and I pay them a percentage of my gross business so when the company has its ups and downs their pay checks go up and down and everybody is happy pretty much all the time, as long as we are productive.

My crew would weed out a slacker on day one. And I don't have a big turnover of workers they have been with me for years. So we don't worry about hourly rates or how many hours per day they work, they just work until the work is done and when the check comes they get there percentage of the gross before expenses. Its like profit sharing without the benefits and paid holidays or health care. There are times of the year they have some time off. I hand out 1099's like they are all self employed, they pay there own tax's and it seems to work pretty good.
I pulled out this section to quote cause your business model is much like the way i run/ran our family business , the top 5 guys work full time , make a great living & will weed out any loafers by coffee break .

My company crew is all family , i pay them hourly salaries set at 40 hours ,some weeks they work 50 hrs & others they work 25 hrs & i leave their salary the same weekly amount regardless of hours worked, their salaries are covered by maintaining our rental properties & the 2 self storage facilities we own , we keep profits from this end .

We speculate in real estate also where we buy foreclosed homes , put them back up to code , jazz the places up with modern kitchens & bath , toss in some quick landscaping & flip em back out on the market , we shoot for 40% profit margins on these homes , here is where im able to give out bonuses .

The way i ran my business was i kept 35% of the profits from the home sales & dispersed 65% to my men , like you i believe in keeping a small work force well paid & happy vs larger profits , realtors have noticed the difference in our homes compared to other flip this house quickees where shit work was done .

I trained my son to take over the business & he's running the show now , hopefully he can maintain the business we built for the family .

RTW laws dont effect workers who's employers are like you & me .
Not that open up,

I got two steady and sometime a third in the summer. They don`t sign a contract, can come or go as they please, I pay the vendors, stock, and then I pay my help accordingly when they started and progressively after. I leave room for profit. Offer no IRA or Pensions, or Health Care. have been forced to change my work because of the economy and return to it. I pay my guys enough to get or not get simple things like Health insurance or future investments, I aint cheap and get what I pay out of my guys. I`m even open to barter and give a credit line once earned.

I don`t need to act or behave like a large corporation and I certainly don`t need Federal guidance and I certainly don`t want some construction Union bullying me into joining.

I need to be left alone with my crew so I can grow and expand, not work out of my ole beat up puck up truck and scape by because of Politicians or Unions wanting a piece.

I like being able to fire someone at will, I like being able to hire who I choose at will. I like them doing what I say and not someone else`s opinion.

Now look at it like an employee, He can be fired at will, he can be hired at will, he can quit at will with just his last check due. No contracts or rates. You`ll get what you`re worth.

I shouldn`t have to join a Construction Union and kick in shares. I should have a right to choose and so should my crew.
You've never worked in a construction union shop for long i can see so let me correct some of the anti union rhetoric you posted .

1st being that because your union your magically protected from being fired , any union construction worker can be fired on the spot , slugs get sent to the union hall & never work again , any journeyman or apprentice who's not up to par wont last a day .

The 2nd misnomer is some union goon BULLYING you into joining a union , thats tv show & ABC propaganda , real life scenario is that not all companies are allowed or qualified to join a union , the company track record is scrutinized & substandard contractors who arent certified in many different areas wont qualify for union membership , when unions ASK A CONTRACTOR TO JOIN they show the owner the benifits of joining the union , they offer world class training facilities & seasoned instructors to teach their employees how to perform their trade above building code levels.
They show the prospective contractor the above OSHA standard saftey training the tradesmen will recieve & the updated training their workers will recieve to keep thier skills sharp & keep up with new methods & building systems , its not the picture you painted where some 300lb goon shows up trying to force your company to join anything .

Unions arent chasing one man band pick up truck operations around trying to extort anything from them .

Companies unions do target for membership are large companies doing millions of dollars worth of work & companies with larger work forces where the union management partnership will be benificial to both parties .

If your company grows to 50 men or more being a union shop would be to your advantage , you'd have access to highly skilled journeymen foremans & superintendents who know every aspect of the job & can work unsupervised in a productive & safe manner .

You painted a picture of unions being full of lazy unskilled goons who cant be fired & thats farthest from the truth .

I hold 2 Journeyman cards in different trades as well as being a card holding CCO Operating Engineer & spent 32 yrs in the bldg trades ,everything you posted is the exact oposite of the way construction unions operate & the superior skill set the union trades bring to the table vs their non union counterpart .
 

OddBall1st

Well-Known Member
I know all I need to give top training to my crew. Why target a successful large companies with the thought of improving it ? They got there, why the sudden need for Union,....Oh dues.

I know a guy that drives a school van for Boston Public Schools, It`s Union out of Chicago, ...they never met him, and he wasn`t hired because of his skill, he was hired because they needed a fucking Black guy. Still he drives toddlers around and the van after hours, that gas money is all too common in Boston and paid for by taxes. Then you got the one`s crashing them uninsured because to save, the Union expires the insurance at 7 o`clock daily. No proof no action can be taken. I don`t need proof, If I suspect you, you`re gone because it`s real hard to get on that suspect list so to speak. I learned about "job security" from Union workers.

There are good and bads about Unions so let them be,...But if a State wants the RTW policy, let them be. ........ Same .

I don`t need to travel from Boston to Arizona and chase my contract for good pay and leave my family for a while.
 

nitro harley

Well-Known Member
I pulled out this section to quote cause your business model is much like the way i run/ran our family business , the top 5 guys work full time , make a great living & will weed out any loafers by coffee break .

My company crew is all family , i pay them hourly salaries set at 40 hours ,some weeks they work 50 hrs & others they work 25 hrs & i leave their salary the same weekly amount regardless of hours worked, their salaries are covered by maintaining our rental properties & the 2 self storage facilities we own , we keep profits from this end .

We speculate in real estate also where we buy foreclosed homes , put them back up to code , jazz the places up with modern kitchens & bath , toss in some quick landscaping & flip em back out on the market , we shoot for 40% profit margins on these homes , here is where im able to give out bonuses .

The way i ran my business was i kept 35% of the profits from the home sales & dispersed 65% to my men , like you i believe in keeping a small work force well paid & happy vs larger profits , realtors have noticed the difference in our homes compared to other flip this house quickees where shit work was done .

I trained my son to take over the business & he's running the show now , hopefully he can maintain the business we built for the family .

RTW laws dont effect workers who's employers are like you & me .

.
We have a lot in common. My son manages my company as well and he is the maintenance man, book keeper, payroll guy ect. He is on salary also. My new boat captain is building a new house as we speak. My crew are like family, very dedicated to the business. It takes a certain kind of worker to fit into my program. Very few people make it on the back deck of a crab boat so the ones that are dedicated have my respect and I treat them right for it.

My business is very limited there are only so many permits to harvest crab and shrimp so the few that are left in the business is all there is going to be.

When I first joined RIU I tried to make my user name "panhead" but it said it was already taken. And I like who ended up with it. We have been here for years and haven't spoken much so I look forward to sharing my thoughts with you. We can't fix the world but we can hash it out.

When I get back to Oregon I will try to get a pic of my new panhead drag bike I am building. My best friend is a master Tig welder drag bike frame builder and I believe he is done with my roller. So I am going to fly back this weekend and try to get it finished for the harley drags this summer. I am a pan head fanatic, I went the extra mile to make this bike go fast and still be a lot like the original panhead look. I stayed with the generator cases but they are after market Delkron heavy duty , axtell cly, std heads that I had a guy weld up and Dan baisly up in portland oregon shaped and cut the heads so I could use EVO pistons and get 14to1 compression. It should make some heads roll at the track. My old pan drag bike will run 9.6 seconds @ 136mph in the quarter mile and my goal with my new one is to run under nine seconds. Anyway I thought I would share my pan project with you, I think you would appreciate it being an old school harley guy like me. standing by.
 

Hazydat620

Well-Known Member
Your example was set in the 70's , much has changed in the new world economy since the 1970's & its now survival of the fittest , as your example pointed out companies who allow SLOTH LABOR are out of business .

The union's have changed & adapted since the US work force ruled the world , unions now days are the highest trained of all workers , have better worker saftey records of all workers , make products that compete equally with , or beat like products made by their non union counterpart companies & do so while paying fair wage packages .

The union company i retired from is currently ranked the 8th largest global construction corporation in the world & is highly profitable for its investors, management & hourly labor , the days of union slugs using their shovel to hold them up have been over for 30 yrs & didnt last that long to begin with .

Most people who've worked in a SLOTH LABOR union workplace in the 70's & early 80's were auto manufacturers , UAW suppliers or government unions , the UAW of today makes great products that compete world wide on cost & quality , local government unions who's workers try holding on to sloth work ethics are being outsourced at record levels & replaced with low bid contractors , many of them being union , the ones that survive are earning their pay ,in this economy it is work hard or be laid off in any union.

Examples of 30-40 yrs gone by do not reflect current economics or work ethics of union men & women , i was Management for Skanska Global Construction & my daily interaction with unionised tradesmen was one of a partnership , we ( Management ) lead by example & didnt sit in our job trailers , we are out on site making sure labor is doing their job safely , properly & attaining high levels of production , we dont need laws to help non union companies compete in this global market . The global economy weeds out the bad eggs .

Right to work laws have never put a dollar in the blue collar workers pocket & never will .
Thank you for your compliments, I have worked on many Skanska jobs in the NW . You treat the people on your jobs very well. How many of Skanskas jobs are exclusively done by union work? How much more work does Skanska do in Pro union states than RTW states? Doesn't make you laugh sometimes at some of the scenarios and pictures some people paint of a union company, tradesman or job nowadays? Really shows how out of touch they are with what real work is?
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
Google the definition of minimum wage and get back to me on that.
I did.

min·i·mum wage
noun
  1. the lowest wage permitted by law or by a special agreement (such as one with a labor union).

Perhaps you don't use Webster, so I looked at dictionary.com and they said

minimum wage
noun
1.
the lowest wage payable to employees ingeneral or to designated employees as fixed bylaw or by union agreement.

Maybe you don't use those for references so I looked at something more obscure and went with Britannica

Minimum wage

Written by The Editors of Encyclopædia Britannica
Last Updated11-27-2013
Minimum wage, wage rate established by collective bargaining or by government regulation that specifies the lowest rate at which labour may be employed. The rate may be defined in terms of the amount, period (i.e., hourly, weekly, monthly, etc.), and scope of coverage. For example, employers may be allowed to count tips received by employees as credits toward the mandated minimum-wage level.

Sorry, none of the definition s of min wage has shit to do with the minimum amount someone needs to make a living.

Min wage is nowhere near enough for a person to make a living.
 

spandy

Well-Known Member
Minimum wage is there to ensure you survive off a 40 hour work week at the very least, but as you said some people are working 60 hours a week at minimum wage and still just scraping by.
Confused on living wage, maybe? No one promised a living wage in 40 hours. 8 hour work day being a no skilled burger flipper, and you want to pass them off to play? Yeah, give them 15-20 an hour and watch those jobs disappear. Bet they will be missing that $8-10 an hour job when they are making jack shit.
 

puffntuff

Well-Known Member
Living wage and minimum wage are 2 totally different things. I make 29$ an hr on my paycheck plus pension anuity health ins vacation pay. Total is 57$ an hr. If I was to go south and work in a right to work state I would get $14 an be tops and no benefits. So who is really benefiting in the right to work states?
 

natro.hydro

Well-Known Member
minimum wage

noun: an amount of money that is the least amount of money per hour that workers must be paid according to the law

Full Definition

1:living wage
2:the lowest wage paid or permitted to be paid; specifically :a wage fixed by legal authority or by contract as the least that may be paid either to employed persons generally or to a particular category of employed persons

I did.

min·i·mum wage
noun
  1. the lowest wage permitted by law or by a special agreement (such as one with a labor union).

Perhaps you don't use Webster, so I looked at dictionary.com and they said

minimum wage
noun
1.
the lowest wage payable to employees ingeneral or to designated employees as fixed bylaw or by union agreement.

Maybe you don't use those for references so I looked at something more obscure and went with Britannica

Minimum wage

Written by The Editors of Encyclopædia Britannica
Last Updated11-27-2013
Minimum wage, wage rate established by collective bargaining or by government regulation that specifies the lowest rate at which labour may be employed. The rate may be defined in terms of the amount, period (i.e., hourly, weekly, monthly, etc.), and scope of coverage. For example, employers may be allowed to count tips received by employees as credits toward the mandated minimum-wage level.

Sorry, none of the definition s of min wage has shit to do with the minimum amount someone needs to make a living.

Min wage is nowhere near enough for a person to make a living.
Thats odd because the one I just pulled off websters website says living wage as 1
For extra points you can click the link below and click on living wage, its in blue its easy to see....

http://i.word.com/idictionary/minimum wage
 

natro.hydro

Well-Known Member
Confused on living wage, maybe? No one promised a living wage in 40 hours. 8 hour work day being a no skilled burger flipper, and you want to pass them off to play? Yeah, give them 15-20 an hour and watch those jobs disappear. Bet they will be missing that $8-10 an hour job when they are making jack shit.
Ill be honest this whole post is confusing lol. Pass them off to play??
 

panhead

Well-Known Member
Thank you for your compliments, I have worked on many Skanska jobs in the NW . You treat the people on your jobs very well. How many of Skanskas jobs are exclusively done by union work? How much more work does Skanska do in Pro union states than RTW states? Doesn't make you laugh sometimes at some of the scenarios and pictures some people paint of a union company, tradesman or job nowadays? Really shows how out of touch they are with what real work is?
I was the odd man out at Skanska , i opted to stay hourly & keep my journeyman cards active & not accept salary , that way i could still be hands on , i really miss running crane .

The percentage of union vs scab projects we ran sadly is leaning heavily twords the scab side , i allways had hard time with most my scab projects , there were a few shining examples of well trained scab workmen but those were far & few between , the punch lists on the non union jobs are obscenely long with all the trades , roofers & plumbers seemed to have the longest punch lists .

I did alot of projects outside the US & have seen things that make the worse scab job you ever saw look safe , i did several jobs in africa where the masons used home made wooden scaffold & the roofers put on rubber roofing with bare feet ! It was 100 degrees & those dudes were walking on that 140 degree rubber like it was sand , they also emptied our dumpsters nightly & took home shit you wouldnt believe , empty buckets were their favorite .
 

natro.hydro

Well-Known Member
Pssst Don't tell anybody but that, right there, is the essence of "right to work". You're a "right to work" supporter!
Im confused how me liking guns but not supporting the nra is the same as rtw. I dont like the work they do politically or I would pay dues to them. That is my point. Im not forced to join the nra to own a gun nor are you forced to join a union to habe a job. Never has been the case never will. As I said befofe if politicians cared more about the people they serve than their own financial interest unions wouldnt be necessary.
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
minimum wage

noun: an amount of money that is the least amount of money per hour that workers must be paid according to the law

Full Definition

1:living wage
2:the lowest wage paid or permitted to be paid; specifically :a wage fixed by legal authority or by contract as the least that may be paid either to employed persons generally or to a particular category of employed persons


Thats odd because the one I just pulled off websters website says living wage as 1
For extra points you can click the link below and click on living wage, its in blue its easy to see....

http://i.word.com/idictionary/minimum wage
I got 3 vs your 1, I win.

If you really believe it is a living wage, move to Honolulu and work for $7.75 and see if you make a living.
I'm not arguing what you think the definition of min wage is, I am telling you that min wage is not a livable wage for most.
 

natro.hydro

Well-Known Member
I got 3 vs your 1, I win.

If you really believe it is a living wage, move to Honolulu and work for $7.75 and see if you make a living.
I'm not arguing what you think the definition of min wage is, I am telling you that min wage is not a livable wage for most.
I dont think I ever said the minimum wage that exists now is a living wage. I said the minimum wage was meant to be a living wage. I think you can survive as one person on 10 dollars an hour(I did it not that long ago), which is what I think the minimum wage should be nowadays.Atleast in my area which isnt all that cheap but it certainly isnt nyc.
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
I dont think I ever said the minimum wage that exists now is a living wage. I said the minimum wage was meant to be a living wage. I think you can survive as one person on 10 dollars an hour(I did it not that long ago), which is what I think the minimum wage should be nowadays.Atleast in my area which isnt all that cheap but it certainly isnt nyc.
I may have mistook your meaning then. I apologize in that case.

I don't think the min wage was ever meant to be a living wage. A political ploy to appease certain voting demographics who were sure that having one would lift all boats, but instead sunk ships.

I don't know where you live, but where I live is a pretty low cost of living. $10 an hour would not afford a single person a car, a house, food, utilities, insurance and healthcare. About the min you can live on with careful budgeting is about $15 an hour.

But most people around here working min wage jobs are either the infirm or the very young and/or skill challenged individuals. Most blue collar jobs start here around $15 an hour.
 

natro.hydro

Well-Known Member
I may have mistook your meaning then. I apologize in that case.

I don't think the min wage was ever meant to be a living wage. A political ploy to appease certain voting demographics who were sure that having one would lift all boats, but instead sunk ships.

I don't know where you live, but where I live is a pretty low cost of living. $10 an hour would not afford a single person a car, a house, food, utilities, insurance and healthcare. About the min you can live on with careful budgeting is about $15 an hour.

But most people around here working min wage jobs are either the infirm or the very young and/or skill challenged individuals. Most blue collar jobs start here around $15 an hour.
LOL I make 14 an hour and consider myself doing pretty well. My roommate is making 10.50. We live in a 3 bd duplex and I grow in the spare and basement. Nothing big just enough for us and a couple friends, so no big profits from that and we only just got our 1st harvest at this place. Yeah we weren't eating steak every night but we did fine.


and maybe you don't think it was meant to be a living wage but the president who saw it into action did so I think his opinion kinda trumps yours don't you think?
http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/03/07/f-d-r-makes-the-case-for-the-minimum-wage/?_r=0
 
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