Can led compete with hid

captainmorgan

captainmorgan

Well-Known Member
Budzbuddha said:
There is no point in trying to see which light system is better.
All light systems have their pros and cons. HID systems are the norm as far as most used system. I have grown full harvest with LED and even CFL . There is negliable difference in final product. If you provide the lumens your plant needs that is all that matters.

LED grows are perfect for most indoor , cabinet style areas. HID throw off a wider light pattern with highest lumen output ( perfect for larger grows ) but combine heat and exhaust needs. For each individual grow situation , it's best to configure your light needs to YOUR GROW AREA , Not how much light you can cram into a space. HID systems are getting very affordable with some 1000w systems around $200.

I use G8 450w and 2 Mars Hydro 600w series II . For me it's about temps and space.
I also run a home built ( 8 100w CFL Lamp in hood ) setup . This one actually I tend to use often because I can mix bulb wavelengths in any combo ( 4 2700k and 4 5000k ) or straight full 6400k/5000k/2700k. T5 lamps were my least favorite , however the wide light field is great.

Look at what YOUR NEEDS are. Forget what is the best , look for what's best FOR YOU.
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I do agree that you should tailor your lights to your situation and environment but I would also like to point out that the LED lights you listed are not the best examples for the best LEDs. Top quality and bin COB's and LED's are at a different level,not trying to start a argument.
 
Blue brother

Blue brother

Well-Known Member
stardustsailor said:
Since you're interested only for yields ,better stay where you are .
Stay with HIDs ....

When you'll realise that there are other things than pounds ,
maybe then you will be ready to experience a more potent mj ...
And inevitably change to LEDs...

Until then ,enjoy your HID-massive yields ...
You're not ready yet .
I can judge that already ,from the way and the words chosen ,to make your questions ..

"only real answer I want is whether an unlimited amount of led in a given area will beat an unlimited amount of hid in the same Area. Yield/area only."

?????:confused:

Theoritical questions do get theoritical answers ...

HIDs all the way for ya,bro ....
Do not enter in the unknown-to you -fields of the Solid State Lighting ...
Only for the brave .
Stay away .
Take that as a friendly advice .


Cheers.
:peace:
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Are you saying that led is better than a mix of hid bulbs thAt emit light in the same wavelengths at producing high quality marijuana ? What makes a photon from a diode superior to one from an arc? You obviously know ur shit I'm not here trying to be a dick. You obviously had to ask questions of your own when you made the change. I allwAys aim for maximum plant surface saturation throughout the full plant available spectrum, so I just don't understand how the plant can react differently to the same light from different sources.
 
medicinehuman

medicinehuman

Well-Known Member
DSCF0221.JPG This is a Lemon Kush under 160w of cxa3070z4's, 4 cobs run @ 1050 mA, I don't think you could get this with 160w of HID or HPS ect. SOIL grown 20" colas @ 39 day's. She has at least 2 week's to go and she's getting fatter every day. These are my oldest lights @ 11 months and they seem to be getting better. I ran them @ 1400ma for at least 8 months. I used HPS and MH before in hydro with 400w each and it was close. IDSCF0220.JPG
 
captainmorgan

captainmorgan

Well-Known Member
Blue brother said:
Are you saying that led is better than a mix of hid bulbs thAt emit light in the same wavelengths at producing high quality marijuana ? What makes a photon from a diode superior to one from an arc? You obviously know ur shit I'm not here trying to be a dick. You obviously had to ask questions of your own when you made the change. I allwAys aim for maximum plant surface saturation throughout the full plant available spectrum, so I just don't understand how the plant can react differently to the same light from different sources.
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Spectral distribution ( color ratios ) is very important to maximize a plants potential it's not just about yield. HPS will grow just fine,add MH to improve your spectrum and quality improves,better yet use CMH. LED's can be tailored to a desired spectrum and increase efficiencies and lower heat which can improve yield and quality depending on your environment.
 
Budzbuddha

Budzbuddha

Well-Known Member
captainmorgan said:
I do agree that you should tailor your lights to your situation and environment but I would also like to point out that the LED lights you listed are not the best examples for the best LEDs. Top quality and bin COB's and LED's are at a different level,not trying to start a argument.
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The lights listed work just fine . If they didn't I wouldn't use them.
I pushed multiple grows with them. It's your opinion but I have the harvest to prove otherwise.
 
stardustsailor

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
Blue brother said:
Are you saying that led is better than a mix of hid bulbs thAt emit light in the same wavelengths at producing high quality marijuana ? What makes a photon from a diode superior to one from an arc? You obviously know ur shit I'm not here trying to be a dick. You obviously had to ask questions of your own when you made the change. I allwAys aim for maximum plant surface saturation throughout the full plant available spectrum, so I just don't understand how the plant can react differently to the same light from different sources.
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Same light from different light sources ?
Better take a moment to think better about that ..

And is not just "light " ...
It's a whole range of Electromagnetic radiation that is emitted .
Including non-visible radiation ,like heat for example ...
Heat does not allow to bring close the light source to plant leaf canopy .
So ,given a minimum distance set by heat ,the photon flux density is decreased versus a light source of smaller wattage
and thus smaller radiant output ,but with the difference that it can be brought very close to leaf canopy ..
Just an example ...

A combination of HId lights that might surpass the LEDs in many aspects ?
Yes ,there's at least one ...
Use HPS+LPS+HQI+CMH all at the same time ...
Then ,you will have a very good HID lighting system ,capable of good yields and good quality ...
Still other issues might arise ...Like efficiency issues ...Or heat issues ...OR fire /health hazzards ..

Please do understand that ...
Technology evolves ..
Constantly ..
There are some aspects of HID lighting that keep them still in use ...
Like ...Some "tropical " countries still use them -in their greenhouses-because they do supply heat as well .
And/or because those lamps are actually manufactured in those same countries ...
(No need to import expensive LED lights ...) ...
And many more ....
The rest of the world has already seen and verified the importance of Solid State light in horticulture ...
And in the rest of the world they have already begun to replace the old HID tech ...
Those* who do not ,they have their reasons ,not doing so ...
And usually those reasons have to do with the money involved and not the actual benefits of Solid State lighting in Horticulture and at yield quantity / quality ....

(*For example : the second agricultural exporter in the world ,
but with actual quality & nutritional value of goods ,
being at sub-zero level ..
The rest of the world speaks about it ,except themselves ...
" Money " ,is the only word that they know well enough ...
Who cares if the tomatoes have no taste or vitamins ?
As long they look same and nice at the super-market shelves ,it 's a "fine" product ...
The "quality" of their "certified " seeds,fruits & vegetables ,
begins and ends only at productivity ,shelf-life and looks ...)

As simple as that ...

A cave is a way cheaper place to live than a modern flat ..
Still ,it is a cave ...It belongs to history ..
 
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C

CC Dobbs

Well-Known Member
Blue brother said:
ok so I got a few queries.

Can led lighting really improve yield. I'm not talking about grams per watt or light here Im talking about grams per square foot, meter whatever.

I know people are gonna say better spectrum from led etc. But forget that cos I know if I want a better spectrum il just go and buy a ceramic metal halide or multiple hid lamps.

For the purpose of this query I wanna state that this is purely about yield/area. Forget power consumption, life of the light, initial layout cost all of this is moot. Only yield/area matters. Even temperature has no beAring in this discussion.

So come on guys convince me.

The sales pitch and graphs shown sure make it seem like a no brainer but with some practical knowledge of how light works and the different wavelengths effects on plants, I can't understand how with the technology available right now LEDs can do something that hid cannot do in an identical space.

I'm not looking to pick a fight, I just want the truth. A lot of experienced members seem to be using led lights and I'd look forward to hearing from them. Thanks guys.
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Since they have the same number of letters I would say that they are the same.
 
captainmorgan

captainmorgan

Well-Known Member
Budzbuddha said:
The lights listed work just fine . If they didn't I wouldn't use them.
I pushed multiple grows with them. It's your opinion but I have the harvest to prove otherwise.
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I'm not trying to argue with you,simple pointing out that those panels are middle of the road quality wise and there are better options that will increase yield and quality,I didn't say they won't grow weed.
 
Blue brother

Blue brother

Well-Known Member
captainmorgan said:
Spectral distribution ( color ratios ) is very important to maximize a plants potential it's not just about yield. HPS will grow just fine,add MH to improve your spectrum and quality improves,better yet use CMH. LED's can be tailored to a desired spectrum and increase efficiencies and lower heat which can improve yield and quality depending on your environment.
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I run hps and mh in cooltubes throughout flower and add Mercury vapour as a finishing light. I have no problems with quality or quantity. Cmh will probably be my next step unless I am convinced otherwise about led. I also have an ir lamp that will eventually be used to put the plants to sleep at night.
 
Budzbuddha

Budzbuddha

Well-Known Member
Ok ... LEDS work , it's whatever floats your boat on light choices.

Mars Hydro systems ( they produce just fine ) :bigjoint:
image.jpg image.jpg

CFL ( 8 100w y-split 5000k /2700k ) or full 5000k veg or 2700k flower.
image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg

Can we all just get along :blsmoke: ... Haha
 
captainmorgan

captainmorgan

Well-Known Member
Blue brother said:
I run hps and mh in cooltubes throughout flower and add Mercury vapour as a finishing light. I have no problems with quality or quantity. Cmh will probably be my next step unless I am convinced otherwise about led. I also have an ir lamp that will eventually be used to put the plants to sleep at night.
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Sounds like you've done your research and have put together different sources to give you a complete spectrum,I also use 730 nm and have added UV with my grows. It sounds like your producing a lot of heat with that set up,do you have trouble cooling or paying a lot to cool that set up or do you live in a cooler climate? You can do something similar with high efficiency LED's and lower your heat significantly but that doesn't come cheap but will pay for itself over time.
 
Yodaweed

Yodaweed

Well-Known Member
If you have the height than DE Gavitas would be the best way to go, if you don't have the height than COB's that you DIY is the best way to go.
 
Yodaweed

Yodaweed

Well-Known Member
medicinehuman said:
View attachment 3393792 This is a Lemon Kush under 160w of cxa3070z4's, 4 cobs run @ 1050 mA, I don't think you could get this with 160w of HID or HPS ect. SOIL grown 20" colas @ 39 day's. She has at least 2 week's to go and she's getting fatter every day. These are my oldest lights @ 11 months and they seem to be getting better. I ran them @ 1400ma for at least 8 months. I used HPS and MH before in hydro with 400w each and it was close. IView attachment 3393794
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Those buds are going to be fluffy as shit bro, you need to train your canopy better.
 
Blue brother

Blue brother

Well-Known Member
captainmorgan said:
Sounds like you've done your research and have put together different sources to give you a complete spectrum,I also use 730 nm and have added UV with my grows. It sounds like your producing a lot of heat with that set up,do you have trouble cooling or paying a lot to cool that set up or do you live in a cooler climate? You can do something similar with high efficiency LED's and lower your heat significantly but that doesn't come cheap but will pay for itself over time.
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Yeah bro I live way north. I also use a lung room to dissipate the heat from those lamps without losing it all completely. This ensures I retain some radiant heat from the bulbs which I believe the plants enjoy. When the bare mv bulb goes on I just massively up extraction to ensure my temps can still drop to 18'c for the last 3 weeks. That's what I'm getting at about the leds. I probably would have bought one long ago if it wasn't for all the sketchy information and test results on them, makes it seem like there is something to hide. Now I'm that far gone in producing par with hids the only way I'd switch to led would be for more yield.
 
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