Is hydroponics better for the environment? I think it is.

[Tone5500]

......

 

[AlphaPhase]

Why thank you Mr Dobbs, you must love tofu and playing in dirt. Maybe you didn't read the thread? I grow both ways, and am for growing both ways, so you sir, are "ignorant as fuck" and probably a little on the slow side? Look it's a blue ball! It's in another thread! Go get it big guy, you love blue balls! Later hater.

Still ignorant as fuck.

 

[AlphaPhase]

If anyone can explain how a closed loop hydroponic system is not better for the environment, I'd like to hear. All hydroponics food are tested and have higher brix for the most part, which is tastier and the produce for the most part is more nutritional. Also, there is nothing that is "bad" in hydroponic food. Holy shit bat man. Saying hydroponic food is unhealthy is about the dumbest thing I've ever read on here.

 

[bluntmassa1]

Soil outdoors is best for the environment but indoors don't make much difference all that peat moss and shit being mined is not good for the environment neither is mining chemical nutrients.

So unless you make your own soil mix from local natural shit your not anymore green than a hydro guy even with farm animals unless you feed them locally naturally your still not that green.

 

[FilthyFletch]

Its a toss up really as organic soil growers put a ton of bad back into the soil outdoors and then if you use amended non organic soils it can be pretty bad too. Hydro is contained but you do have to drain and if you pump it outdoors the salts and build up can be bad and if it goes down the drain depending on your area it can go right into streams or such not all drained materials gets cleaned in all areas of the country or world.

 

[Sativied]

‘Natural’ illusions: Biologist’s failed attempt to defend organic food
http://www.geneticliteracyproject.org/2015/05/22/natural-illusions-biologists-failed-attempt-to-defend-organic-food/

"science simply cannot find any evidence that organic foods are in any way healthier than non-organic ones – and scientists have been comparing the two for over 50 years."

"Further, there was a study that said organic farming actually contributed more to pollution of groundwater, and then a meta-analysis of more than a hundred studies saying organic had more ammonia and nitrogen run-off per product unit, leading to more eutrophication as well as acidification potential."

Also click and read the links...

So, organics is bullshit from every angle, just the old appeal to nature fallacy, as many of us knew already, which indirectly makes soil just a poor choice. Hydro culture and (efficient) hydroponics / mediumless is the obvious option in terms of quality, quantity and the environment. Especially for something as easy to grow as cannabis.

 

[st0wandgrow]

stalks roots that get tossed are filled with chemicals that pollute and contaminate ground soil , ground water, lakes, rivers, oceans

I don't understand what you're saying here...?

 

[AlphaPhase]

^^exactly

If I grow outdoor, I grow organic. It's a no brainer. But I also grow on a very small scale. I've also seen some large hydroponic farms, and it is incredible! They are growing tiered nft or Aero and getting much much more product than an organic or commercial farm could ever dream of in the same area.

But, it would obviously be extremely hard to make a hydro farm as large as most soil farms, and the start up costs would be extremely costly, as Dr who mentioned.

 

[AlphaPhase]

Thank you sativied! We're on the same page. And you always bring things back to reality with facts. Much appreciated. (though my outdoor veggies are organic, because I can't figure out an easier way to grow them for sucha small garden

 

[AlphaPhase]

Right on, good post. I try to use all the res water I can when growing in hydro. When the level of water gets to low in the res (say 5 gallons) that the pump isn't able to work with, I've been watering my house plants with it. Pretty much zero waste now, though I was guilty of dumping the 5 gallons a month down the drain for a while.

Its a toss up really as organic soil growers put a ton of bad back into the soil outdoors and then if you use amended non organic soils it can be pretty bad too. Hydro is contained but you do have to drain and if you pump it outdoors the salts and build up can be bad and if it goes down the drain depending on your area it can go right into streams or such not all drained materials gets cleaned in all areas of the country or world.

 

[st0wandgrow]

Right on, good post. I try to use all the res water I can when growing in hydro. When the level of water gets to low in the res (say 5 gallons) that the pump isn't able to work with, I've been watering my house plants with it. Pretty much zero waste now, though I was guilty of dumping the 5 gallons a month down the drain for a while.

Hydroponics is a great way to grow...particularily if you're not dumping spent resevoir water down the drain. Cudos for that.

When it comes to soil, I really believe that organics is the way to go. A lot of the issues with synthetics stem from the over-use of the nutrients. Growers trying to "push" their plants and dumping insane amounts of nutrients on them.

I'm not sold on using synthetics for traditional soil farming. I'm not convinced that there is less negative impact on the enviornment when compared to organic farming practices. Hydroponics on a large scale would interesting to see, but like you've pointed out it would be very cost prohibitive to set up.

 

[AlphaPhase]

Source >> http://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2012/09/little-evidence-of-health-benefits-from-organic-foods-study-finds.html

"For thier study, the researchers sifted through thousands of papers and identified 237 of the most relevant to analyze. Those included 17 studies (six of which were randomized clinical trials) of populations consuming organic and conventional diets, and 223 studies that compared either the nutrient levels or the bacterial, fungal or pesticide contamination of various products (fruits, vegetables, grains, meats, milk, poultry, and eggs) grown organically and conventionally. There were no long-term studies of health outcomes of people consuming organic versus conventionally produced food; the duration of the studies involving human subjects ranged from two days to two years.

After analyzing the data, the researchers found little significant difference in health benefits between organic and conventional foods. No consistent differences were seen in the vitamin content of organic products, and only one nutrient — phosphorus — was significantly higher in organic versus conventionally grown produce (and the researchers note that because few people have phosphorous deficiency, this has little clinical significance). There was also no difference in protein or fat content between organic and conventional milk, though evidence from a limited number of studies suggested that organic milk may contain significantly higher levels of omega-3 fatty acids.

The researchers were also unable to identify specific fruits and vegetables for which organic appeared the consistently healthier choice, despite running what Bravata called “tons of analyses.”

“Some believe that organic food is always healthier and more nutritious,” said Smith-Spangler, who is also an instructor of medicine at the School of Medicine. “We were a little surprised that we didn’t find that.”

 

[st0wandgrow]

‘Natural’ illusions: Biologist’s failed attempt to defend organic food
http://www.geneticliteracyproject.org/2015/05/22/natural-illusions-biologists-failed-attempt-to-defend-organic-food/

"science simply cannot find any evidence that organic foods are in any way healthier than non-organic ones – and scientists have been comparing the two for over 50 years."

"Further, there was a study that said organic farming actually contributed more to pollution of groundwater, and then a meta-analysis of more than a hundred studies saying organic had more ammonia and nitrogen run-off per product unit, leading to more eutrophication as well as acidification potential."

Also click and read the links...

So, organics is bullshit from every angle, just the old appeal to nature fallacy, as many of us knew already, which indirectly makes soil just a poor choice. Hydro culture and (efficient) hydroponics / mediumless is the obvious option in terms of quality, quantity and the environment. Especially for something as easy to grow as cannabis.

I can buy the nutritional value angle when comparing the two. When it's all said and done the plant is taking up the nutrients in the exact same elemental form. I call bullshit on the enviornmental impact part of it though. Any idea who funded this study?

 

[st0wandgrow]

Source >> http://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2012/09/little-evidence-of-health-benefits-from-organic-foods-study-finds.html

"For thier study, the researchers sifted through thousands of papers and identified 237 of the most relevant to analyze. Those included 17 studies (six of which were randomized clinical trials) of populations consuming organic and conventional diets, and 223 studies that compared either the nutrient levels or the bacterial, fungal or pesticide contamination of various products (fruits, vegetables, grains, meats, milk, poultry, and eggs) grown organically and conventionally. There were no long-term studies of health outcomes of people consuming organic versus conventionally produced food; the duration of the studies involving human subjects ranged from two days to two years.

After analyzing the data, the researchers found little significant difference in health benefits between organic and conventional foods. No consistent differences were seen in the vitamin content of organic products, and only one nutrient — phosphorus — was significantly higher in organic versus conventionally grown produce (and the researchers note that because few people have phosphorous deficiency, this has little clinical significance). There was also no difference in protein or fat content between organic and conventional milk, though evidence from a limited number of studies suggested that organic milk may contain significantly higher levels of omega-3 fatty acids.

The researchers were also unable to identify specific fruits and vegetables for which organic appeared the consistently healthier choice, despite running what Bravata called “tons of analyses.”

“Some believe that organic food is always healthier and more nutritious,” said Smith-Spangler, who is also an instructor of medicine at the School of Medicine. “We were a little surprised that we didn’t find that.”

View attachment 3428273

I believe that. What I don't believe is that using synthetic fertilizers on large industrial farms is less harmful to the enviornment than organic farming.

 

[AlphaPhase]

Agreed stow, anything I grow in soil mediums is 100% organic, it's just easier to let the soil do the work.

I've just recently started my first dtw system and tthe first week there was a lot of runoff and I wasn't liking it, so I began to collect all the runoff and recirculate it. It's a pain in the ass because I'm doing this manually at the moment, but I couldn't see myself dumping all the water. Will be back to closing the loop soon or next grow, but until then I'll still be collecting all of the runoff

 

[AlphaPhase]

I'll have to do some more research and see if I can find some more evidence of the environmental factors, selenium, heavy metals, are rthe main issues off the top of my head right now. Organics contain much more heavy metals and over time the heavy metals tend to increase to unbelievable rates in the soils.

 

[st0wandgrow]

‘Natural’ illusions: Biologist’s failed attempt to defend organic food
http://www.geneticliteracyproject.org/2015/05/22/natural-illusions-biologists-failed-attempt-to-defend-organic-food/

"science simply cannot find any evidence that organic foods are in any way healthier than non-organic ones – and scientists have been comparing the two for over 50 years."

"Further, there was a study that said organic farming actually contributed more to pollution of groundwater, and then a meta-analysis of more than a hundred studies saying organic had more ammonia and nitrogen run-off per product unit, leading to more eutrophication as well as acidification potential."

Also click and read the links...

So, organics is bullshit from every angle, just the old appeal to nature fallacy, as many of us knew already, which indirectly makes soil just a poor choice. Hydro culture and (efficient) hydroponics / mediumless is the obvious option in terms of quality, quantity and the environment. Especially for something as easy to grow as cannabis.

Here's the guy behind the "genetic literacy project" that you linked. lol

http://www.propagandists.org/propagandists/jon-entine/

 

[AlphaPhase]

Bringing the heat stow! I'm liking it, waiting for the rebuttal

Sativied usually is posting great information, could possibly be he overlooked something

 

[testiclees]

[/U][/B]If anyone can explain how a closed loop hydroponic system is not better for the environment, I'd like to hear. All hydroponics food are tested and have higher brix for the most part, which is tastier and the produce for the most part is more nutritional. Also, there is nothing that is "bad" in hydroponic food. Holy shit bat man. Saying hydroponic food is unhealthy is about the dumbest thing I've ever read on here.

Saying hydro produce has higher brix than conventioal soil growing without providing a citation is not even a lil bit legit.

I work with a bunch of high brix farmers, all soil.

Ive never heard a hydro produce vendor mention the brix of their products. Ive bought a lot of produce over tbe years, millions worth.

Lastly the fairly well knowndoc bud high brix kit is soil only because soil biology are required to process the minerals. Cannabis brixing 17-23 is fairly common with this kit.

Ill ask around but i dont think i know any chef who would choose a hydro vegetable over a soil grown veg.

I dont have a position on whether one is more environmentally responsible.

 

[st0wandgrow]

Bringing the heat stow! I'm liking it, waiting for the rebuttal

Sativied usually is posting great information, could possibly be he overlooked something

He does post a lot of good info for sure. It's just when it comes to the world of big business agriculture there is usually a vested interest behind these types of articles. It's really tough to decipher fact from fiction.