V series "Tetras"

robincnn

robincnn

Well-Known Member
Positivity said:
Is that TIM all over the cob? If it is..whatever it is..its good to have iso alcohol around and paper towels to get them shiny clean before using.
Click to expand...
yes that is TIM all over LES. I have cleaned and re-applied thermal compound on this one over a dozen times trying to figure out what is the best way and how much to apply. . It got I actually cleaned it with alcohol and cotton swabs before taking a pic. It was real bad earlier :wall:
i will make a vero 29 stencil to TIM application to keep it clean and even

Positivity said:
The thermocouple wire is too exposed for me too..be good to snip the wire shorter so no exposed wire near terminals.
I use kapton on the thermocouple but its not easy to get it just right that way..need to get the wire to naturally press against the test spot and kapton tape it in place..your way is more secure though. Tape would be a no go since the terminals are exposed..
Time to toss the vero unfortunately...regardless of what its running at..
just some stuff to ponder...not trying to be critical. I tossed a cxa that the solder pad seperated from board while trying to use the ledil clamp.
Good luck and keep at it...hopefully sds can give you some good info
Click to expand...
You mentioned snip the wire. Do you mean I can cut the thermocouple junction shorter ?
Will try with kapton tape next time and put a little TIM on junction.
Thanks for the feedback. I have tortured me first vero enough and it still works. I will keep this one for experiments.

salmonetin said:
...notes on thermocouple way...

http://www.bridgelux.com/sites/default/files/resource_media/AN30-Thermal-Management-of-Vero-LED-Modules.pdf

page 26 and 27

Special care is required when measuring the Tc to ensure an accurate measurement.

As mentioned above, a Tc measurement location is provided on the top side of the Vero module for easy access in a location which Bridgelux has defined near the Light Emitting Surface (LES) and is intended for measuring the temperature with a fine gage thermocouple.

This measurement location is identified in the mechanical section in the Vero LED module datasheets.
The thermocouple attach area is large enough to accommodate a 30 gauge thermocouple, but a smaller gage such as 36 gauge is recommended for ease of attachment and better accuracy,
see figure 9 below which shows the attachment location.

The following approach is recommended to minimize measurement errors for attaching the thermocouple
to the case temperature measurement point of the Vero LED Modules.

A microscope will aid in the installation of the thermocouple detailed in the next steps

View attachment 3434228

View attachment 3434229

View attachment 3434230

...add the vid....

https://www.rollitup.org/t/v-series-tetras.858075/page-15#post-11567816

pd... maybe add the reflowoven shield wiith an arduino... and maybe add an diy microscope with a old web cam....to make pics or vids with the process...or looking tricomas or leaves or insects...with a ring of leds for better illumination...:wink:

saludos
Click to expand...
i read the AN30 and saw the bridgelux video a couple of times. They say 30 guage or higher. 36 preferred. I bought this one and it is way to big. Photo attached
http://www.ebay.com/itm/400542887700?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

Not sure where i can get a 30 to 36 gauge K type thermocouple..
Thanks for the photos. The thermocouple came out today. I will definitely use a kapton for strain relief next time.
IMG_3467.JPG
 
salmonetin

salmonetin

Well-Known Member
...typing... 30 to 36 gauge K type thermocouple on google ... i saw this ....its 30 gauge...but hey its spark...

https://www.sparkfun.com/products/251

...but i see others 36 gauge options too... more expensives too...

...from my pov of your pic... your sensor invade the phosphorus zone... you can (must) evitate these... the sensor must evitate the die zone (yellow zone on pic) and the electric pads (orange zones on pic)...bridgelux in the video dont eviitate these but its not a correct way.... in the last pic i posted you can see they evitate these points on the thermocouple wires routing with kapton tape...

figure11.JPG

pd.. the wires of thermocouple its a problem for lot of lens or similar adaptors... for my pov its a generall fail in design on cobs leds...

people demand cobs with sensor of temp onboard or cobs prepared to deal with thermocouples and her wires when using lens adaptors or reflector or similar adaptors... maybe a extra canal for wires on cob side or other ideas...

pd 2... abi...the amplifiers for thermocouples that i know its only for k types...and without arduino for an acurate measure you need an tested accurate meter too.. with quality resistors..and other things... normally expensives meters... @guod please... what meter you recomend?...

saludos
 
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stardustsailor

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
My own Tetras "updated" ...
7-seg LED numerical display ,indicating position of rotary switch ..

#1 = 350 mA ( for clones )
#2 = 500 mA ( for sprouting seedlings / keeping motherplants or male pollen donors )
#3 = 850 mA ( for vegging when Ta is higher than 25° C )
#4 = 1000 mA (for vegging when Ta is lower than 25° C )
#5= 1350 mA ( for flowering when Ta is higher than 25° C )
#6 = 1650 mA ( for flowering when Ta is lower than 25° C )

Cheers.
 

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salmonetin

salmonetin

Well-Known Member
:clap::clap::clap:... without time and tired... incredible...:hump:

...with more free time... ...the next model ---fly----

...awesome as usual bro...;)

...what energy... :hump:...

...stay safe and good luck with your vegetables...

...cheers double for you...

:peace:

Saludos
 
stardustsailor

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
"TURN ON" delay with relay .

In case of more than one driver used for powering COBs / LEDS then there are three good reasons to use
such circuit ....

1 ) First and most crucial reason is the accumulated inrush current that can reach up to several hundreds of Amps ,thus projecting a real danger for timer(s) failing ,mains fuses tripping ,etc ..Having the drivers switched on one after another ,is the best practice to avoid any of these possible problems / hazards ..

2 ) Since the circuit is powered from the 12 VDC fan pwoer supply ,if that supply fails (actually being a pretty weak "link " ,if not the weakest ,of a LED grow lighting system ) ,the relays will switch OFF protecting the COBs /LEDS from overheating / frying .

3 ) In some extend ,soft on set of light power may have quite positive effects in plant growth and development .

Previously myself ,I've used a circuit incorporating a LM 555 timer along with a 4017 decade counter in order to multiply the time delay ...The actual circuit used was quite complex and ,in fact, quite unstable ...
Thus a new circuit had to be found ....Simple to make and trustworthy regarding it's operation.

So ...

turn ON delay with relay.JPG


This circuit is very easy to make ,using a perforated PCB board ,very reliable and quite cheap ,actually .

How it works :

Since the +12 VDC power source - FAN PSU - is switched ON ,then capacitor C1 begins to charge ,smoothing out any surge spikes and/or noise.Power line goes through the relay ( K1 ) coil ,but since there's no connection to ground ( - pole of FAN PSU ) yet , the relay remains inactive.Power goes via the trimmer R1 and low limiter* resistor R2

( * => low limiter : in case of trimmer is set to 0 Ohms ,
it will protect the trimmer and the NPN transistor Q1 from "overcurrent frying " ...)

to capacitor C3 ,which begins to charge .
When the voltage across C3 exceeds both the base-emitter voltage of Q1 and the gate trigger voltage of the D1 , gate current flows,- just momentarily .
(Q1s' emitter contacts the ground via the capacitor C2,then the cap is charged thus the transistor Q1is not having any current flowing to Collector -Emitter pins anymore ).

That brief pulse activates D1 which is actually a " Silicon Controlled Rectifier " aka " thyristor " .
The thyristor closes the power line of the relay coil to the ground and the relay is now activated and remains like that,until the FAN PSU is switched OFF .

When the FAN PSU is switched OFF ,cap C3 is rapidly discharged via resistor R3 and diode D2.
So, even in the case of a brief mains power out ,the circuit retains it's "turn ON delay " feature.

Diode D3 protects Q1 from coil inductive currents (kick back spikes ) and must be there.

Using a Douple Pole relay ,like the one shown at the above schematic ,
allows for several of such circuits to be serial connected,switching ON several LED drivers one after another.

Once the thyristor D1 is "armed" all the parts are being inactive -off from power line ,
except from the relay K1 .( thus the circuit is of LOW power operation )

On the zip folder you can find the pdfs of some parts used in the schematic.

For adjusting the duration of the delay :

This is done taking into consideration the relay coil resistance
and adjusting ,R1 ,R2 and C3 values .
Search the web : " RC calculator " ...

For example :
http://ladyada.net/library/rccalc.html
V : 12 Volts
Vc : 6 Volts
R : R relay coil +R1 +R2 values
C : C3 value

Cheers.
:peace:
 

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salmonetin

salmonetin

Well-Known Member
...thanks a lot for your sharings SDS... ...another lesson to me on electronics... ...relay on-off delay on contactors industrial way for my pov... but on electronic way... ...im fliping right now... o_O

...what a grower... thanks for another great mental seed ... :hump:
...what a summer...:fire:

...romero bath... or better lavanda.... good essential oils ...love yourself a bit...;)

...take care and stay safe bro....:hug:

:peace:

Saludos
 
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stardustsailor

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
Dimming Resistive Control with Rotary Switch ( 6 positions ) and 7-segment numeric display indication.

Parts:

- 1x CD4511 / HCF4511 CMOS binary code decimal to 7-segment LED Decoder driver IC .
http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/cd4511b.pdf
http://www.doctronics.co.uk/pdf_files/hcf4511.pdf
http://www.radiovilag.hu/images/cd4511.pdf
http://www.gtronic.it/energiaingioco/it/scienza/Micro-GT PIC_ultimate/CD4511 e equivalenti.pdf

- 1x Common Cathode 7-seg LED numeric display ( common available colors : Red / Yellow / Blue / Green / White )
http://www.signal.com.tr/pdf/cat/OPD-S5620UPG-BW.pdf

- 1x Rotary Switch 2-pole / 6 position
http://www.taiwanalpha.com.tw/english2014/p_e_129.htm


- 6x 1 K resistors
- 3x 10K resistors
- 1x 100 nF ceramic capacitor
- 6x 1N4148 signal diodes

-5x Resistors for dimming control
( up to 80-90 K total* for single driver ,
40-45 K total* for two drivers ,
15-20 K total* for four drivers.)
*Total = R#1 + R#2 + R#3 + R#4 + R#5

Schematic:
rot switch plus 7seg.JPG


Notes:
Resistor #1 is the LOW LIMITER resistor ( 10 K for single driver ,5K1 for two drivers ,2K7 for four drivers )
Position #6 of switch is OPEN / Not Connected ( 100-108 % of driver(s) output ).


Cheers.
bongsmilie
 
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ya bongo

ya bongo

Well-Known Member
why not make use of the 1-10V option?
more flexibility, 1, 2 ... 10 Drivers without the hassle of different resistors.
a current of >=1mA for the resistor-chain will be enough for up to 10 Drivers
Example:
1-10v.png
 
stardustsailor

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
ya bongo said:
why not make use of the 1-10V option?
more flexibility, 1, 2 ... 10 Drivers without the hassle of different resistors.
a current of >=1mA for the resistor-chain will be enough for up to 10 Drivers
Example:
View attachment 3464869
Click to expand...
I'' try to give you couple of reasons why not to do so ...


1) You still use 5 resistors .Aren't so ? Still those have to be of low tolerance ( > = 1% ) in order for the voltage divider to be precise enough ...

2) From MeanWell's AN010 " 1-10V Dimming control for LPF,HLG & HLN series * :

" 8. The driver is intended for use with control voltages between 1 and 10 VDC.
The control equipment must not impose a voltage greater than 11V peak maximum on the driver control terminals. "

So most probably a well regulated
( i.e. double regulation LM7812 =>LM7810 with large smoothing caps ) LINEAR power supply is needed,
in order to obtain a FAILSAFE 1-10 V dimming control .
A noisy switching power supply can be affected by mains spikes / fluctuations ,thus is possible the situation ,
where eventually you will have to kiss the drivers a rather bitter "goodbye " ...;).
The noise of a switching PSU also ,if it's in the range of > 200mV p-p,it will have as a result a nice effect of pulsating / strobo light .Pretty cool ,but very tiring to work under / attend the garden ...

*
http://www.mouser.com/pdfdocs/meanwell-1-10V-Dimming-Control-For-LPF-HLG-and-HLN-series.pdf

Free Bonus-the new catalog :bigjoint: :
http://www.meanwell.com/catalog/led/meanwell_LED.pdf

Cheers.
:peace:
 
stardustsailor

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
FAN FAIL PROTECTION

A circuit designed to cut-off the AC power to LED driver(s) in case of either the fan fails or the fan 12 VDC PSU fails.
I've not tested yet ,but in theory it seems to be working.
Soon ,I 'll test it and give you a feedback about it .
Anyway ...
The circuit uses an op-amp .
But let us take it from start ...

FAN FAIL ALARM.JPG

Firstly ,in order to work ,of course it needs a 3-wire or 4-wire fan .
The YELLOW wire is the TACH output of the fan ( in some 4-wire fans the TACH wire might be GREEN ) .
The tach signal is pulled up to +12 VDC with R1 resistor ,in order to obtain a usable TACH signal.
Then via the " coupling " capacitor C1 ( 1uF ,25 V ,105°C ,electrolytic ) only AC pulses are going further .
If the fan stops ,no matter if the TACH is "stuck" to HIGH or LOW ,the protection will still be engaged.
( C1 will become a circuit break ).
The C2 ( 47 uF ,25 V ,105°C ,electrolytic ) is a "smoothing capacitor ",that transforms the frequency of the AC pulses into DC voltage . It charges via resistors R3 & R4, and discharges though R4 and the internal "Collector -Emitter resistance " of Q1. The higher the frequency of the AC pulses, the lower the DC voltage across C2.

Then this voltage is fed in the "inverting input " of the op-amp.
The op-amp works as a " Schmitt Trigger " .
The high and low threshold values are changed through the potentiometer R2 and resistor R6.
The output of the op-amp keeps the transistor Q2 ( biased as switch ) into "conducting state" .
The transistor is keeping the relay activated .

How to adjust the protection threshold :
Power ON the fan and wait until it reaches it's maximum speed .
Then turn the potentiometer R2 until the relay is deactivated (LED driver(s) switch OFF ).
At that point, turn it slowly to the other side*. When the LED driver(s) switch ON again ,
just give the pot another very slight turn to the same direction*.
Stop the fan with your hand and see if the LED driver(s) switch OFF.
You will notice a slight delay. This is normal because of R7 ,which is there for a bit of hysteresis.
Release the fan,in order to start rotating again.
Again you will notice a delay ,until the LED drivers switch back ON.
The bigger value of R7 the smaller the hysteresis.

Useful Notes :

-R2 pot can be a multiturn trimmer for higher precision threshold adjustment.

-You will need a SINGLE POLE DOUBLE THROW relay aka SPDT .

-Connect the LIVE AC wire at the Normally Open pole of the relay.
The AC output (to the led driver(s) ) should be connected to the "wiper" pin of the relay.

-Do not forget the diode D1,otherwise the transistor Q2 ,will be destroyed from inductive current spikes (from relay coil ) .

-Make sure the relay has a coil resistance more than 120 Ohms.Otherwise the Q2
( 2n3904 ) will be fried.( 100mA max. current to Collector -Emitter . ...12 V / 120 ohm = 0.1 A .
No matter if the 2N3904 is rated for 200 mA ...)

-Make also sure that the relay is capable of delivering the AC amperage needed to the LED drivers.Choose one that is rated x1.5 or x2 or more ,than the (total ) amperage the LED driver(s) are rated at their AC side .

-Power the whole circuit ( and the relay ,of course ) from the 12 VDC fan Power Supply Unit .
If the fan fails ( no TACH pulses ) the relay gets deactivated ,LED driver(s) switch OFF .
If the fan PSU fails ,-again-the relay gets deactivated ,-again-LED drivers switch OFF .

Cheers.
bongsmilie

http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lm741.pdf
https://www.sparkfun.com/datasheets/Components/2N3904.pdf
 
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salmonetin

salmonetin

Well-Known Member
...Thanks SDS...love your electronic way...

...on electronic way...fans dimming forced for a temp sensor???...thoughts...
....or on electronic way....dimming driver forced or conducted with temp sensor near led... and if overpass security temp go to OFF... when temp ok... ON again????... thoughts...


...en un cielo sin luceros (estrellas).... mejor me quedo aqui...

:peace:

Saludos
 
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stardustsailor

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
salmonetin said:
...Thanks SDS...love your electronic way...

...on electronic way...fans dimming forced for a temp sensor???...thoughts...
....or on electronic way....dimming driver forced or conducted with temp sensor near led... and if overpass security temp go to OFF... when temp ok... ON again????... thoughts...

:peace:

Saludos
Click to expand...
1) What kind of temperature sensor ?
Thermocouple -NTC -PTC -Ddicated IC ....

2) Placed where ?
COB -heatsink ...
(oh ,I just saw the "near LED " ...But then what would be the "threshold setting near LED ?
Tcase + ??? )

3) Placed how ?
Epoxy -thermal tape -screw -holder ...

4) Sensor circuit ?
MCU -Dedicated driver -analog ...

and from questions to remarks ...

1) too much wiring with sensors :cuss:

2) too much error with sensors :dunce:
(sensor tolerance / placement /way of placement / driving )

3)Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
What if sensor ...fails ?


4) love the simplicity and serviceability (and cheap prices,of course ) of linear analog circuits ...


Cheers.
:peace:
 
salmonetin

salmonetin

Well-Known Member
...1) What kind of temperature sensor ?
Thermocouple -NTC -PTC -Ddicated IC ....

for the dimming fan ...im thinking... DS18B20...




for the dimming driver ... thermocouple or other DS18B20...

....we can use one RTD ...remplacing the pot here?????.... (great Guod idea for the thermostat)...



2) Placed where ?

...for the dimming fans ....on heatsink..

for the dimming driver... near led or close zone seems to me the best zone...

3) Placed how ?

...holder removable with screw...

4) Sensor circuit ?

...analog for both?... ???

fan go with her driver or psu... circuit for dimming
led go with her driver or psu too...citcuit for dimming too...

1) too much wiring with sensors :cuss:

...maybe for comercial lamp ....for a DIY lamp ....why not?...

...wires arent problem to me... time to work with extrawires...not problem too...

2) too much error with sensors :dunce:
(sensor tolerance / placement /way of placement / driving )

... OKsensors are not perfect... but i assume these... but for controling or monitoring certains temps... we use sensors.. maybe not the perfection sistem,,, but its the normal way...
3)Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
What if sensor ...fails ?


...redundancy its out on lot of comercial lamps... on DIY lamp why not?... ok its more expensive way... but not too much... ...on some things the cost its not the important... and the quality of components helps on better result off course... but are personal preferences too...

if fail on the dimming fan... the thermostat can stop the driver... same on dimming driver...



4) love the simplicity and serviceability (and cheap prices,of course ) of linear analog circuits ...


...i love too... but thinking about solutions or other ways without buy nothing... talk about things a bit complicated its other form to learn... not?... for these reasons i want your thoughts or ideas or other thoughts too...

:peace:

Saludos
 
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